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What do you mean they consider themselves true heirs to the Christian tradition?
Simply that they claim that Jesus and the disciples existed, but followed the way of Islam, and thus that they are following a continuation of what Jesus taught.
It is similar to how Christianity is the true heir of the traditions of Abraham, Israel, Moses, etc. (even though a modern Jew might object to the notion).
Note that I am not saying that they are the heirs, only that they claim they are such. They are pretenders to the throne. But all heretics make false claims.
Islam rejects every belief that distinguishes Christianity from other religions. That's why I think it makes no sense to say that it's derived from Christianity in any way shape or form. They say that they believe in a "Jesus," but it's a different one than ours. It's the same with every other person in the Holy Bible, they use the same names, but it's a totally different set of people.While Mohammad was certainly not Christian, he was familiar with some form of Christianity and incorporated elements of it into his new religion.
Islam rejects every belief that distinguishes Christianity from other religions. That's why I think it makes no sense to say that it's derived from Christianity in any way shape or form. They say that they believe in a "Jesus," but it's a different one than ours.
They also believe Jesus will return as a Muslim
Warrior. They see him only as a prophet. Lesser than Mohammed of course. But he will return to kill infidels. Look, it us no wonder people like me are dumbfounded by what the CCC says concerning Islam. I mean they are concerned with depictions of Mohammed but look at what they have done to Jesus. It is not a religion of truth and goodness from my perspective. This does not demean it's followers but it does explain why I think the religion is basically blasphemous.
Matthew 11:21-24 said:21 Woe to thee, Corozain, woe to thee, Bethsaida: for if in Tyre and Sidon had been wrought the miracles that have been wrought in you, they had long ago done penance in sackcloth and ashes.
22 But I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment, than for you.
23 And thou Capharnaum, shalt thou be exalted up to heaven? thou shalt go down even unto hell. For if in Sodom had been wrought the miracles that have been wrought in thee, perhaps it had remained unto this day.
24 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
CCC 841 said:841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."3
Sooooo... there were two Abrahams, Jesuses et al going about doing remarkably similar things, at similar times, in the same region, completely unknown to each other?They say that they believe in a "Jesus," but it's a different one than ours. It's the same with every other person in the Holy Bible, they use the same names, but it's a totally different set of people.
Islam rejects every belief that distinguishes Christianity from other religions. That's why I think it makes no sense to say that it's derived from Christianity in any way shape or form.
You cannot believe in Jesus and strip him of his divinity, his sacrifice and his identity. It is not the same.
I'd have to look it up, but I think Joseph Smith at least started out as a Christian before he founded Mormonism. But Muhammad wasn't even a Christian to begin with.An important test case for considering whether Islam is a Christian heresy is to consider whether Mormonism can be called a Christian heresy. Both profess all sorts of doctrine which is completely incompatible with any common Christian teaching, but at the same time both have their roots in Christian thought. Without the Bible there would be no Quran and no Book of Mormon.
The sticking point for me is whether we must consider followers of a Christian heresy Christians. At first it might seem like we obviously should, but imagine a world where the Gnostic heresy had not been quashed and was still a major part of today's world. Its doctrines were incompatible with Christianity and if they had been allowed to develop further would almost certainly have moved further from their source, to the point where it would be absurd to call a modern Gnostic a Christian. Yet at the same time Gnosticism has always been considered a heresy of Christianity. It is in this sense that we can consider Islam (or Mormonism for that matter) a heresy.
A heresy is marked by its perversion of its source, and in particular the way that it attacks the doctrine as a whole by emphasizing or increasing special features. The word "heresy" even is derived from the word for "choice;" a heresy "choose" part of the truth to destroy the rest. So the gnostic heresy choose the truth that our spiritual concerns should be foremost, but distorted this into a teaching that the material world was evil (eventually even calling God, or at least actions of God, evil). Similarly Pelagianism took the truth that the free will was good and distorted that into saying that it was so good that man did not God's aid, Donatism took the truth that we should strive to be saints and distorted that into a requirement that the Church be run entirely by saints, Arianism took the truth that God created all things and that Jesus was a man and distorted that into a teaching that Jesus was a created being, and so on. After the distortion what remains often does not resemble where it started from.
Islam chiefly differs from its emphasis of God's supremacy. It is true that God is supreme over all and has authority over all, but Islam cannot bear anything which even seems to question God's authority (even if it does not). So they cannot allow that God took the form of a slave, because such a form would not be fitting for such a supreme being. But at the same time, they cannot consider the hypothetical question of whether God could do evil in principle (but in practice does not), and avoid it by saying that whatever God does is good simply because God does it. Likewise there has never been the support for applying reason to theology, because to suggest that God could be understood even partially by human reason would be to bind Him to it (at least from the perspective of Islam). There is even a resistance to allowing there to be secondary causes in the world, because that would deny God the opportunity to be the only cause of all (and thus the teaching of occasionalism took root). All of these things initially seem disparate, but they have their origin in a single twist of Christian doctrine.
Saying that Islam is a Christian heresy is not really doing it much in the way of favors. In fact, if it is, it is more blameworthy for them to be ignorant of the truth, as compared to practitioners of wholly separate religions. From what little Chinese history I know, it would not surprise me to learn that Confucianism was far more receptive to Christianity, despite having fully distinct origins. I would also say that it does not necessarily mean that they are closer to Christianity or more receptive towards it: it is a statement of origins, not of current or future locations. There are times when Islam had some possibility of reconciling itself with Christianity, especially when it takes philosophy and reason seriously (such as the time of Avicenna). But due to its core nature it cannot bear such trends for long and in the long run will likely remain a bitter enemy of Christianity.
I'd have to look it up, but I think Joseph Smith at least started out as a Christian before he founded Mormonism. But Muhammad wasn't even a Christian to begin with.
Sooooo... there were two Abrahams, Jesuses et al going about doing remarkably similar things, at similar times, in the same region, completely unknown to each other?
Sure, why not?
That's a good analogy for it.no, there were not two Jesuses
it is that Islam tells a false narrative about Jesus
think of it something like the novel "Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter"
is it about Abraham Lincoln? when the character in the story has different motivations, does different things, has entire speeches and conversations made up, and interacts with characters who are wholly fictional
at what point does a story turn from a true story with some inaccuracies in it to a fictional account?
Tell it to the guy who claimed "but it's a totally different set of people."no, there were not two Jesuses
it is that Islam tells a false narrative about Jesus
think of it something like the novel "Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter"
is it about Abraham Lincoln? when the character in the story has different motivations, does different things, has entire speeches and conversations made up, and interacts with characters who are wholly fictional
at what point does a story turn from a true story with some inaccuracies in it to a fictional account?
no, there were not two Jesuses
it is that Islam tells a false narrative about Jesus
think of it something like the novel "Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter"
is it about Abraham Lincoln? when the character in the story has different motivations, does different things, has entire speeches and conversations made up, and interacts with characters who are wholly fictional
at what point does a story turn from a true story with some inaccuracies in it to a fictional account?
As others have pointed out, hardly. But it is a religion with sharp distinctions from Christianity in various ways, including the most important ones, ie Jesus' divinity, etc. Beyond that, tbh I don't get the flap over whether Islam is "Christian heresy" or not. Unless you're doing a case study on the word "heresy," it seems rather pedantic to me.Islam rejects every belief that distinguishes Christianity from other religions.
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