Why is the day of worship controversial?

[mmksparbud]

The point is the famous 10 are called the Law of Moses. The truth is the verse includes them. The verse doesn't exclude anything from the Book of the Law. This is the only witness you have that makes them known. I suppose you might use a NT passage to say other wise. But I'd only ask what they're actually quoting from.What does the verse say?

How does any of that change the fact that God alone wrote the 10 with his own hand and are the only ones put into the ark and are in the Ark in heaven?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I guess this is about as good a place to post this- I've noticed you don't use ten commandments. Instead you use God's law. When it comes to law I believe there's a difference. It wasn't God's law that was added. It was what we normally call the law (famous 10) that has been added. God's law was before sin. The famous 10 weren't. My proof is Gen 26:5 and Deut 5:1-3. This study is put forward as some try to argue through presenting a half verse in ROMANS 7:6 to say God's LAW has been ABOLISHED leaving out CONTEXT in both chapter and scripture. Not the case. We don't promote the law (famous 10) as being annihilated. We do agree with Mat 5:17-18 and LK 24:44.We also quote from the prophets, who you quote half sentences from changing the meaning of God's Word. We do also quote from the Gospels. So what we support isn't just the words of the despised Paul. Quoting to the first coma (KJV) or the second coma in your version doesn't change the meaning of the verse nor the fact that we are delivered (released - your version) from as true. What were we held in (KJV), bound in your version? You say sin, yet the verse says the law meaning the famous 10 by quote in the next verse of them. Now we serve in newness of Spirit. We no longer serve by the written code (law, famous 10)(your version) letter (KJV).Ignored? By who? Me? When? Interesting enough you reference and quote Romans 3:21 in support of being required to keep this law. And yes you're referring to the written code (famous 10) when you do so. So why do you promote that in light of this verse in context by quote of the next that we're released from. You're just not consistent.What caused the motions of sin? The law. What law? Verse 7 says the famous 10. The verse doesn't read - For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins did work in our members to bring forth fruit to death. My back up is -
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Rom 5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. While it's sin that bound us is true. It's also true that the Jews Paul is speaking to were also bound by the law (famous 10). So is your point here that we're not bound (obligated to) the famous 10? Can't be when your total volume of posts are considered. You clearly promote being bound by the law (famous 10). Sin isn't the subject of Romans 7. The central theme and subject is law, specifically the famous 10 by quote. Paul says it's the law which caused violation (sin). Here you make a clear statement we were bound by the law. When it comes to the Jews I agree. Gentiles were never obligated to the famous 10. The statement also indicates we don't come to the law as gentiles. That would mean we're bound by the law against what the verse says.No problem for me there. Serious problem for you. No mention of sin in that quote. Swell! No problem.Why are you asking this question? Isn't your intention that we're released only from sin and not the law? You do teach and promote a requirement to keep the covenant law given only to Israel - the famous 10.This isn't a reference to sin. You talk about being release from the law but claim it's sin that bound us. Just following the flow here you claim we're released from the law. Please get your act together. Agree here. No. Verse 5 says sin was caused by the law. It says nothing about being removed from any penalty. Jews were bound by both. Gentiles never were. Every law I know of requires punishment for any violation. If you take away the required punishment for violation, law becomes nothing more than an empty suggestion. No the context is clearly about the law. The subject is clear by the question - Is the law sin? The discussion then proceeds to be comments about the law mentioned 3 more times. I still agree with the verse as quoted. It plainly says "...we have been released from the law.." There's absolutely no text or context for "But now, by dying to what once bound us..." being sin.Yes "For without the law sin was dead." Verse 7 clearly says sin was caused by the law. It says noting about being bound by sin.The verse says nothing about being bound by sin. The verse talks about how the law works. Yes I agree the wages of sin is death. That however doesn't mean we were or are bound by it. Yes I believe we were bound by sin. That isn't the subject of Romans anywhere. It certainly isn't the context, subject or focus of Romans 7.No. God nor His law holds (binds) us to sin. God's law charges violators and punishes them. There's so many great verses to quote here. Righteousness is without the law - 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets. 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Both from Romans. What I'd like to know from you is how can either of those verses be about ceremonial law you claim is no longer in force. You charge others with guilt (unrighteousness/sin) by law that has been rescinded and no longer having any jurisdiction. (Jer 31:31-33; LK 22:20) Therefore your charge is false. There's no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus by anything including the law - Romans 8:1. None of which prove your point. So I deleted them for brevity. Sorry about your conflicting statement here. You boldly proclaim we're bound to the law. Not a single one of your passages indicate bondage to sin. All your quotes are about the law.The subject is the law, not sin.

Out of all this post that you have posted how much of it addresses the posts to you that looked in detail at ROMANS 6; ROMANS 7 and ROMANS 8 showing the full CONTEXT of your interpretation of ROMANS 7:6?

Your posting a reply which does not reply to what I have written in

Romans 7:6 Part 1 linked click me.
Romans 7:6 Part 2 linked click me.
Romans 7:6 Part 3 linked click me.
Romans 7:6 Part 4 linked click me.

How about you put your reply in the correct thread to continue the discussion and address the posts linked above which show the full CONTEXT of ROMANS 7:6 starting in ROMANS 6; ROMANS 7 and ROMANS 8?

Your conclusion is partially correct. We're delivered from both the law and guilt of sin. No where have I ever promoted salvation in sin. You claim it's sin to not keep the law given only to a select people, namely Israel. Not even a Christian Israeli is obligated to the Old Covenant law because of the New Covenant established by Jesus Christ as promised by Jeremiah.

The scriptures show we are delivered from the condemnation and penalty of the LAW for sin. The scriptures do not say God's LAW is ABOLISHED or there would be no KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is as PAUL states in ROMANS 3:20 and ROMANS 7:7. If you are teaching God's LAW has been ABOLISHED then you have no KNOWLEDGE of what sin is. ISRAEL according to GOD'S WORD in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. The NEW COVENANT promise is to God's ISRAEL. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT. Gentiles are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27.

Detailed scripture support here...

1. ORIGIN OF ISRAEL AND THE 12 TRIBES linked
2. MEANING OF THE NAME OF GOD'S ISRAEL linked
3. GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT IS GOD'S CHURCH linked
4. GENTILES ARE NOW GRAFTED IN WITH GOD'S ISRAEL linked

Sorry my friend God's WORD disagrees with you.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.

 

[ace of hearts]

ROMANS 7 AND ROMANS 8 GOD'S LAW ABOLISHED? OR IS IT SIN? PART 2/4

As shown above the CONTEXT of the scriptures before and after clearly show that it is SIN that has bound us not God's LAW and the scripture context is the law of sin and death (the flesh; sinful human nature) v5; v7

.
That is biased personal opinion. The subject is clearly the law which you posted is what binds. Proof that you think the law binds is your continuous harping about the famous 10.

All God's LAW can do is give us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is v7-12 therefore as Paul says is Holy, Just and Good v12. It is the motions of sin that bounds us v5. We are delivered from the laws condemnation for sin (breaking God's LAW) by dying to that which bounds us v20-21 (SIN)

No the law also condemns and requires punishment.

You are missing CONTEXT and only focussing on half a scripture to argue that God's LAW is no longer a requirement yet in ROMANS 3:20 Paul has already said God's LAW is established in those who BELIEVE God's WORD and in ROMANS 8:1 there is now no more CONDEMNATION from the LAW for those in Christ who walk not after the sinful nature but by His Spirit (Word).

I already posted -

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Gentiles were never under the law. That has nothing to do with the whole world being guilty.

Keeping the law won't make one guiltless or righteous. You charge gentiles with sin (unrighteousness) by a law that never applied to them and now is superseded. Righteousness is only by faith of Jesus Christ. This bypasses the law (famous 10).

Paul doesn't say the famous 10 are established in the heart of the believer. You add to Scripture what you want to believe.

ROMANS 8:2 provides more light in relation to 7v5 saying that the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has freed us from the law of SIN and death. The law of sin and death is sinful human nature 7v5, For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit to death. v6 But now we are delivered from the law (sin and death; sinful human nature), that being dead wherein we were held (SIN); that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

What is "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus?"

Please notice it's the law which caused the motions of sins activating the law of sin and death.

Is Paul talking about the ten commandments that gives us a knowledge of what sin as the the law of sin and death or the law of the sinful human nature?

Yes!

7v25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. 8v2, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

7:25 gets into what is redeemed. The body of flesh is never redeemed. It will never be raised from the dead. Salvation is about the soul only. The law can't redeem or change the soul. Only the work Jesus did on our behalf can through faith. Jesus said more than once to come to Him and have life eternal rest. Jesus told the Jews to search the Scripture because they thought it would give them life. IOW the law doesn't give life. The law only condemns and passes the sentence of death (separation from God).

8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Paul is talking about three laws here; 1 God's LAW (Knowledge of sin) 2. the law of sin and death and 3. the law of the Spirit (the Word; Faith). v21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me (the law of sin and death).

No Paul isn't. You don't understand the expressions of what you call 3 different laws. There's also the law of gravity. That is an expression of an activity. It's also a law of God. Paul clearly calls the law - the law of sin and death. Note worthy is his calling the law the ministration of death.

Note; Is God's LAW sin? 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, You shall not covet. v14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. v23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Note Is God's LAW death? Is God's LAW death? v13 Was then that which is good made death to me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Nope the law of sin and death being discussed by Paul he says in his own words are NOT God's LAW (10 Commandments)

How soon you don't remember Paul's discussion proving the law brings death. Paul isn't amused by that fact. You really need to do a careful close an honest reading of the verses you post and even emphasize.

You are mixing up the law of sin and death (sinful human nature; the flesh) with God's 10 Commandments which only give a knowledge of what sin is and is spiritual, holy just and good. God's LAW is NOT the law of SIN and DEATH it is the knowledge of what sin is nothing more. It is the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil (Romans 3:20; Psalms 119:172; 1 John 3:4; James 2:8-12).

No I'm not mixing the law of sin and death with God's commandments. You try to separate the law of sin and death from the law (the famous 10). You can't. They don't grant you life because you can't keep them. Jesus made this point very well. The Psalms makes this point very well. The law brings death (separation from God).

It is sin that has bound us we are now free from condemnation <where did I get this you asked before? see ROMANS 8:1 > v1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:1-4. That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The law is about carnal (the flesh) performance.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

I don't know about you, but I believe Paul was a Christian when He wrote that.

There is indeed a lot of scripture that disagrees with you my friend now if you disagree prove this post and all the scripture in it is not correct. If you cannot pray about it. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

Hope this is helpful

There is no Scripture I disagree with. There's no Scripture that disagrees with me.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

.
That is biased personal opinion. The subject is clearly the law which you posted is what binds. Proof that you think the law binds is your continuous harping about the famous 10. No the law also condemns and requires punishment.I already posted -

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Gentiles were never under the law. That has nothing to do with the whole world being guilty.

Keeping the law won't make one guiltless or righteous. You charge gentiles with sin (unrighteousness) by a law that never applied to them and now is superseded. Righteousness is only by faith of Jesus Christ. This bypasses the law (famous 10).

Paul doesn't say the famous 10 are established in the heart of the believer. You add to Scripture what you want to believe.What is "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus?"

Please notice it's the law which caused the motions of sins activating the law of sin and death. Yes! 7:25 gets into what is redeemed. The body of flesh is never redeemed. It will never be raised from the dead. Salvation is about the soul only. The law can't redeem or change the soul. Only the work Jesus did on our behalf can through faith. Jesus said more than once to come to Him and have life eternal rest. Jesus told the Jews to search the Scripture because they thought it would give them life. IOW the law doesn't give life. The law only condemns and passes the sentence of death (separation from God).

8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

No Paul isn't. You don't understand the expressions of what you call 3 different laws. There's also the law of gravity. That is an expression of an activity. It's also a law of God. Paul clearly calls the law - the law of sin and death. Note worthy is his calling the law the ministration of death. How soon you don't remember Paul's discussion proving the law brings death. Paul isn't amused by that fact. You really need to do a careful close an honest reading of the verses you post and even emphasize. No I'm not mixing the law of sin and death with God's commandments. You try to separate the law of sin and death from the law (the famous 10). You can't. They don't grant you life because you can't keep them. Jesus made this point very well. The Psalms makes this point very well. The law brings death (separation from God).
The law is about carnal (the flesh) performance.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

I don't know about you, but I believe Paul was a Christian when He wrote that.
There is no Scripture I disagree with. There's no Scripture that disagrees with me.

Now my friend, in this post all you are doing is making claims that I have not made and not addressing anying in the post that you are quoting from. When scripture is quoted your response is that it is my own personal opinion when I have only posted God's WORD? Out of all this post just like the previous post that you have posted here how much of this post addresses the posts to you that looked in detail at ROMANS 6; ROMANS 7 and ROMANS 8 showing the full CONTEXT of your interpretation of ROMANS 7:6? Sadly it is mostly your own words and opinions over God's WORD.

Your posting a reply which does not reply to what I have written in

Romans 7:6 Part 1 linked click me.
Romans 7:6 Part 2 linked click me.
Romans 7:6 Part 3 linked click me.
Romans 7:6 Part 4 linked click me.

How about you put your reply in the correct thread to continue the discussion and address the posts linked above which show the full CONTEXT of ROMANS 7:6 starting in ROMANS 6; ROMANS 7 and ROMANS 8 and stop making claims I have not said in the posts linked above? I am happy to re-post the full discussion here if you like?

God's LAW is not carnal, sin is. God's LAW is HOLY, JUST and GOOD *ROMANS 7:12. I suggest you go back and read the chapters and the linked posts above. Your simply stating your own words and opinions over God's WORD.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.

 

[mmksparbud]

The thing is:

God is writing His laws in our hearts today---That is the new covenant---no priestly sacrifices, none of that which pointed to Jesus. He will wrote them in our hearts. But, as with anything else--He will not force those laws to be written in anyone's heart that does not want them there. He never forces. So, if you don't want them, they won't be there--if you only want one of them, you get one, if you only want 4 of them,. you get 4--if you only want 9--you get 9. Whatever you want, whatever you allow, is what will be written there. Bottom line is---they are written somewhere--in the heart or on stone in the heavenly ark--they are written down.
God never asks for the possible---He always asks for the impossible--because with Him--all things are possible. By all---He mean all.

 

[ace of hearts]

ROMANS 7 AND ROMANS 8 GOD'S LAW ABOLISHED? OR IS IT SIN? PART 3

Now let's move on looking at both ROMANS 7 and ROMANS 8 a little further building on what we have already provided scripure wise and show what is being referred to in ROMANS 7 and ROMANS 8 when it talks about the FLESH or the CARNAL MIND which is all through those chapters..

THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH (G4561 sinful human nature; the Flesh or Carnal mind)

ROMANS 7 AND ROMANS 8

Indeed, ROMANS 7 is talking about the experience of the UNCONVERTED man and the law of SIN and DEATH (Sinful nature). It concludes in v24-25

Paul is talking about his present life as a Christian. He's not speaking about his life prior to conversion. Paul is using different words translated carnal in 7 and 8. You don't discuss them. G4561 is also translated flesh. So I need you to discuss all the verses and words of those verses with carnal or flesh in them to know what you're talking about. The word flesh is G4561 in Romans except one time it's G29007 referencing sacrificed animals. 14:21

[24], O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
[25], I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. SO THEN WITH THE MIND I MYSELF SERVE THE LAW OF GOD ; but with the flesh <G4561 Carnal mind or sinful human nature> the law of sin (not Born again).

Slavation from SIN is found in Jesus Christ (Saviour) ....

Amen! here. Problem is you teach and promote one has to also keep the law for salvation. Do I need to start quoting EGW? You simply can't prove that from the Bible. To do so you have to have both salvation by Jesus and the law in the same verse or sentence. No where is the law mentioned in regard to salvation. Yes you'll quote Mat 19 and MK 10 as proof. But you can't show by either salvation was granted. You can't show that salvation was granted to anyone by keeping the law (famous 10) in the Bible.

SO then with the MIND I serve the LAW of GOD.... Sound familiar?

HEBREWS 8:10 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people

links to..

EZEKIEL 36:26-27 [26], A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. [27], And I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.

No, but you link them. I don't believe Eze 36:26-27 is linked to the New Covenant because it's limited to blood line Jews only. The NT clearly teaches the New Covenant includes the whole world. I believe Eze 36:26-27 is talking about what happens after what we call the second coming. The Jews are still looking for a physical king delivering them from other rulers. It's a primary reason they didn't accept Jesus as Messiah the first time.

Romans 8 continue the same...

ROMANS 8:1-14

[1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH <G4561 Carnal mind or sinful human nature>, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT <Ezekiel 36:26-27; Hebrews 8:10; Jeremiah 31:31-34; NEW COVENANT PROMISE>.

True. The law regulates the carnal body of flesh. You seem to claim it regulates the soul providing righteousness. Rom 8:3 says the law isn't effective in this endeavor. Yes the law comes up very short in this aspect. The reason isn't really what at least I'm discussing. You claim it can do that. The Bible says no and proves it.

[2], FOR THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS <Ezekiel 36:26-27; Hebrews 8:10; Jeremiah 31:31-34; NEW COVENANT PROMISE> has made me free from the law of sin and death <carnal mind or sinful human nature>.

What makes us free from the law of sin and death (the law, famous ten by context)?

[3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh <G4561 Carnal mind or sinful human nature>, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh <G4561 Carnal mind or sinful human nature>: [4], That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh <G4561 Carnal mind or sinful human nature>, but after the Spirit.

You need to read what this quote says and believe it (make it your own). Nothing we do in the flesh creates the righteousness God demands. That can only be had through the substitutional work of Jesus Christ.

[5], For they that are after the flesh <G4561 Carnal mind or sinful human nature> do mind the things of the flesh <G4561 Carnal mind or sinful human nature>; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

That's the performance you demand. You follow after the flesh and the carnal law regulating it.

[6], For to be carnally <G4561 same grk word used as FLESH; Carnal mind or sinful human nature> minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Amen! You promote this death by trying to regulate the body with the law. We can discuss this fact in some detail. You won't like it.

[7], Because the carnal mind <G4561 same grk word used as FLESH; Carnal mind or sinful human nature> is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Need I say more?

1 Cor 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Ordinances are and include the law (famous 10).

[8], So then they that are in the flesh <G4561 same grk word used as CARNAL ; Carnal/FLESH = carnal mind or sinful human nature> cannot please God.

Your claim is indeed we can. Best wishes.

[9], But you are not in the flesh <G4561 same grk word used as CARNAL ; Carnal/FLESH = carnal mind or sinful human nature> , but in the Spirit <Ezekiel 36:26-27; Hebrews 8:10; Jeremiah 31:31-34; NEW COVENANT PROMISE>, if so be that the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

These have already been covered by me to you. Hebrews 8:10 is a partial quote of Jeremiah 31:31-33, a single sentence proving your intention to be in error.

[10], And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Where does this righteousness come from? Is it the law? Rom 3-4 says no. Specifically 3:21 backed by Rom 4 talking about both those who didn't have the law and those the did and sin greatly.

[11], But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also bring to life your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwells in you.

This verse has nothing to do with raising our physical bodies from the dead. It does deal with having a vibrant physical life because of the results the Spirit has on our soul.

[12], Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh <G4561 same grk word used as CARNAL ; Carnal/FLESH = carnal mind or sinful human nature>, to live after the flesh.

Yes and Amen! We owe nothing to our physical bodies when it comes to our relationship with God.

[13], For if you live after the flesh <G4561 same grk word used as CARNAL ; Carnal/FLESH = carnal mind or sinful human nature>, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do put to death the deeds of the body, you shall live.

What are the deeds of the body? Don't you use -

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

to prove obligation to the law? Paul calls them works of the flesh (G4561).

[14], For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Here Paul says the sons of God aren't led by the law. You have no NT verse saying the Spirit leads one to the law.

..................

Returning back to your ROMANS 7:5-9

[5], For when we were in the flesh <G4561 same grk word used as CARNAL ; Carnal/FLESH = carnal mind or sinful human nature>, the passions of sins, which were by the law <KNOWLEDGE OF SIN>, did work in our members <SIN> to bring forth fruit unto death <ROMANS 6:23, The WAGES OF SIN is DEATH>.

[6], But now we are delivered from the law <penalty and condemnation>, being dead to that in which we were held; <SIN> that we should serve in newness of spirit, <NEW COVENANT PROMISE OF THE SPIRIT; Ezekiel 36:26-27; Jeremiar 31:31-33; Hebrews 8:10-12> and not in the oldness of the letter (KNOWLEDGE OF SIN).

You're very self contradictory here quoting this verse. See my red emphasis of your post. You clearly promote adherence to the letter (famous 10).

ROMANS 7:6 [6], But now, by dying to what once bound us <SIN>, we have been released from the law (condemnation and penalty for breaking it through forgiveness> so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Please read what you posted. Read only what the verse says. It clearly says "we have been released from the law."

Q. What was it that God's LAW shows in ROMANS 7 that has bound us? Let's go back to the verse that is before....

ROMANS 7:5 [5], For when we were in the FLESH <G4561 Carnal mind or sinful human nature>, the motions of SINS, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit to death.

A. It is SIN that has bound us!

<* NOTE: the key to this verse is delivered from the law, being dead to that in which we were held. The law revived and I died... Why? Because the LAW gave a KNOWLEDDGE of SIN. It is SIN that God's LAW holds us to. It is SIN that we are delivered from not God's LAW.>

Oh the law revived.

................

CONCLUSION: ROMANS 7 and ROMANS 8 are talking about the NEW COVENANT promise of SALVATION from SIN; not salvation in SIN. We are not released from God's LAW (10 Commandments) as it is the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is. We are released from SIN and the PENALTY of SIN and the law of SIN and DEATH (7v5-25; 8v2 6v23) by walking in the Spirit of the NEW COVENANT (8v1) we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (SIN). If you have not died to that which holds you captive (SIN) you are not released from the LAW you are UNDER the LAW Guilty before God of SIN.

Will just add part 4 which will add ROMANS 6...

This conclusion is against Rom 7:6 by your adding things that the verse doesn't say.

Please note I had to break your post here to respond.

 

[ace of hearts]

Sorry but had to break your post to completely respond.

6v2 We are to be dead to sin and not to live any longer in it.
6v3-4 We are buried with Jesus in death to walk in newness of life
6v6 The old man is crucified that the body of sin might be destroyed so we no longer serve sin 6v7 For he that is dead is freed from sin
6v10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he lives, he lives unto God. 6v11 Likewise reckon you also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord
6v12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 6v13, Neither yield your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
6v14, For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace.

Good point here with verse 14. Why doesn't sin have dominion over us. Isn't it because we're not under the law and under grace? That's what the verse says. Quoting the Scripture seems to be a problem for you.

6v15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
6v16 Know you not, that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

What is it you claim to obey? Isn't it the law? By the above verse you serve the law. I serve Jesus.

6v17 But God be thanked, that you were the servants of sin, but you have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Paul preached Jesus.

1 Cor 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

Do you have any verse Paul admits to preaching the law? I didn't ask if you have any verse Paul quotes from the law.

I ask you if you think I also preach foolishness? Well maybe I should ask if you think what I preach is foolishness? Personally I think both questions are rhetorical requiring a no answer.

6v18 Being then made free from sin, you became the servants of righteousness. (see Romans 7:1-4)
6v19 I speak after the manner of men because of the weakness of your flesh: for as you have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
6v20 For when you were the servants of sin, you were free from righteousness (married to the other).

And who were you married to? Romans 7 says the now dead husband (the law). You can't escape that question. You clearly promote a relationship with that husband (the law).

6v21 What fruit had you then in those things of which you are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. (Old MAN that is to die)
6v22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, you have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. (married to the other).

The law doesn't make you free from sin.

6v23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

What do you accept and how? You want wages (obligating God by works of righteousness). You believe Rev 22:14 says you have the right to the tree of life by keeping the famous 10 (the law). Jesus told the Jews to search the Scripture (the law) because they thought they gave life. IOW Jesus said they (the law) don't.

……………

The same is continued in ROMANS 8

[1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (married to the other).

Who do what? I understand it to say walk after the Spirit.

[2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

What made me free?

The two laws being discussed are

1. the law of the Spirit of life in Christ by dying with him (Old MAN of sin) and
2. the law of sin and death [Flesh G4561 sinful human nature]

Reference to the marriage outlined in ROMANS 7:1-4 and death through baptism in ROMANS 6

[3], For what the law [letter only gives us a knowledge of what sin is] could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh [Flesh G4561 sinful human nature], God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Is the law (letter) effective? The verse says no. This is the same as the law of sin and death, or you're arguing different things with no connection.

[4], That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

[5], For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit (the marriage of Romans 7:1-4).

Yes and you demand performance of the flesh (carnal) which is the law. The law is about carnal performance.

 

[ace of hearts]

ROMANS 6 ; ROMANS 7 AND ROMANS 8 GOD'S LAW ABOLISHED? OR IS IT SIN? PART 4


The context of ROMANS 7 is ROMANS 6. Both ROMANS 6; ROMANS 7 and ROMANS 8 should be read together. Ok with the other studies already posted let's add ROMANS 6 and what it is we are to be dead to in ROMANS 7:6.

Romans 6-7:1 isn't the context of chapter 7. It discusses obligation in a very different way. In chapter 6 it is us who have died (to the law). In 7:2-3 it's the law that has died. Either way the law has no effect on or authority over the Christian. That means the Christian is free from the law (famous 10 by context - 7:7).

ROMANS 6:1-22
[1], What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[2], God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer in it?
[3], Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[4], Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that just as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[5], For if we have been united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[6], Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that we should no longer serve sin.

[7], For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Amen to verse 7. A dead man is indeed free from sin. He can no longer do anything. the problem arises because you seem to raise this dead man back to life and sin (obligation to the law). Something is alive because it has action according to verse 6 and has a problem according to verse 1. Evidently it can still sin. It can't be the body of flesh (or the carnal mind). Paul addresses this concept in Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. The problem with a living sacrifice is it keeps crawling off the altar. The flesh (and carnal mind) has not yet actually deceased. If it was, there'd be no war between the two (carnal mind and the soul) acknowledged by Paul in 7:14-25.

What is this newness of life? It can't be the same old thing. Jeremiah says a new (not continued and amended) covenant which isn't like the one given to their fathers. What you promote is a continuation of the same old thing.

NOTE: v2 We are to be dead to sin and not to live any longer in it. v3-4 We are buried with Jesus in death to walk in newness of life. v6 The old man is crucified that the body of sin might be destroyed so we no longer serve sin. v7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. Let's continue.

He that is dead is also free from the law.

[8], Now if we are dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[9], Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dies no more; death has no more dominion over him.
[10], For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he lives, he lives unto God.
[11], Likewise reckon you also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

NOTE: We are to be dead to SIN not God's LAW and alive in Christ v10-11

No. you added in God's law (famous 10). That is eisegesis called false doctrine. It doesn't say alive by the law in Jesus Christ. We live in Jesus, not the law. Read the Scripture you post. Now you even say we're alive in Jesus Christ. I can agree with that. Being alive in Jesus Christ isn't being alive in the law.

[12], Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.

NOTE: Sin is not to reign in us

[13], Neither yield your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
[14], For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace.
[15], What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

NOTE: We are to be DEAD to sin and sin is not to have dominion over us v14. Ww are not to sin because we are under grace v15

Please note verse 14 you quote above. It says don't let sin reign over you in the first part of the verse. It give the reason in the second part of the verse. That reason is because we're under grace - not the law.

And verse 15 says we're not under the law. What law is being talked about. Does ceremonial items of the law cause us to sin? You say no because your claim is those things of the law were nailed to the cross and use Hebrews to back it up. Yes the 4th commandment is ceremonial. Remembering anything by celebration is ceremonial especially if a day is set aside for it. So what law are you talking about? It can only be the non ceremonial parts of the law. You don't keep that either. So your whole argument is only a facade.

[16], Know you not, that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

NOTE: If we continue in sin (breaking God's commandments) we will die v16

No and you'll not listen. You write specifically about the famous 10 here. Jeremiah says they'll be replaced by a new and different covenant. We are delivered from death by Jesus alone, see the Gospel of John.

[17], But God be thanked, that you were the servants of sin, but you have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
[18], Being then made free from sin, you became the servants of righteousness.

NOTE: JESUS has freed us from the power of known sin as we have faith in his Word. Now we are to believe and follow JESUS.

Yes we're servants of righteousness. We're also not servants of the law. I'd love to quote you many verses, but it would only make the post unbearably long. So three is good enough.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

[19], I speak after the manner of men because of the weakness of your flesh: for as you have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

[20], For when you were the servants of sin, you were free from righteousness.

[21], What fruit had you then in those things of which you are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

[22], But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, you have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

[23], For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Thank you, I'll take the gift and you can have my wages.

………….

NOTE: v6 The old man is crucified with Jesus that the body of sin might be destroyed that we should no longer serve sin. V22 It is death to sin through the BODY of Christ that we are free from being the servants of sin and now the servants of righteousness. Can you see all the context you leave out of the interpretation of the scriptures brother?

No.

I'm dead. Remember chapter 6? I wasn't raised to the same life. I was raised to life in Jesus, not back to the law. Galatians says don't turn/return to the law.
5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Galatians also says -
3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

NOTE: Same thoughts explained in Romans 6 but Romans 7 using the example of marriage
6v2 We are to be dead to sin and not to live any longer in it. 6v3-4 We are buried with Jesus in death to walk in newness of life. 6v6 The old man is crucified that the body of sin might be destroyed so we no longer serve sin. 6v7 For he that is dead is freed from sin

[2], For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he lives; but if the husband dies, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

NOTE: What does the husband represent that dies? 6v6 The old man is crucified that the body of sin might be destroyed so we no longer serve sin 6v7 For he that is dead is freed from sin

The husband clearly represents the law. So any relationship with the dead husband (the law) is necromancy. That is also a sin.

[3], So then if, while her husband lives, she is married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband dies, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she is married to another man.

NOTE: We cannot serve the flesh [G4561 sinful human nature] and serve the Spirit.

That's correct. You serve the law for salvation. I accept the free gift by faith from Jesus. You can delude yourself with your idea of Rev 22:14 all you want.

LUKE 16:13 [13], No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.

You can serve the law if you want. I chose to serve Jesus. No one can serve both. Remember turning /returning to the law makes Jesus of no effect. Gal 5

[4], Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that you should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

NOTE: The law here is a reference to the bond of marriage continuing the topic of death and life in Christ. That is the OLD MAN of sin [Flesh G4561 sinful human nature] that is crucified is to die that we might serve in newness of life. 7v4 being dead to the law by the Body of Christ is the same as… 6v2 We are to be dead to sin and not to live any longer in it. 6v3-4 We are buried with Jesus in death to walk in newness of life 6v6 The old man is crucified that the body of sin might be destroyed so we no longer serve sin 6v7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

The laws being discussed here are the law of the flesh [sinful human nature] and the law of the Spirit [walking by faith in God’s Word]. When one dies you are free to marry another.

Yes and the husband (the law) of Rom 7 died and we're married to another, Jesus.

[5], For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit to death.

NOTE: The flesh [G4561 sinful human nature] is the OLD MAN that must be crucified with Christ in order for us to be married to another [The Spirit] 6v5

[6], But now we are delivered from the law, being dead to that in which we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter

The more you flash the last half of the verse in front of me the more tempting it is to comment on. So here goes -

We serve in newness of spirit - not the oldness of the letter. The letter here is the law (famous 10) by context of verse 7. Just more evidence we're delivered (free) from the law (famous 10 - letter). Righteousness doesn't stem from obedience to the law (famous 10 - letter). See Rom 3 and 4. Righteousness is manifest with out the law.

NOTE: Here we see the same thought of marriage to the flesh and marriage to the Spirit highlighted in Romans 7:1-5 also from Romans 6. Notice the parallel scriptures from ROMAN 6 are saying also that we are to die to sin (the Carnal mind or sinful human nature) not God's law from 7v6 which is your interpretation..

It's not me that presents dead to the law. 7:4

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 6-7:1 isn't the context of chapter 7.

That one is a "keeper" for those who know what "context" means.

And it explains the "rest" of that post perfectly.

 

[ace of hearts]

Out of all this post that you have posted how much of it addresses the posts to you that looked in detail at ROMANS 6; ROMANS 7 and ROMANS 8 showing the full CONTEXT of your interpretation of ROMANS 7:6?

Your posting a reply which does not reply to what I have written in

Romans 7:6 Part 1 linked click me.
Romans 7:6 Part 2 linked click me.
Romans 7:6 Part 3 linked click me.
Romans 7:6 Part 4 linked click me.

How about you put your reply in the correct thread to continue the discussion and address the posts linked above which show the full CONTEXT of ROMANS 7:6 starting in ROMANS 6; ROMANS 7 and ROMANS 8?

I very painfully connected all the dots in my posts. I left nothing out. So you can respond here or not.

The scriptures show we are delivered from the condemnation and penalty of the LAW for sin. The scriptures do not say God's LAW is ABOLISHED or there would be no KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is as PAUL states in ROMANS 3:20 and ROMANS 7:7. If you are teaching God's LAW has been ABOLISHED then you have no KNOWLEDGE of what sin is. ISRAEL according to GOD'S WORD in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. The NEW COVENANT promise is to God's ISRAEL. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT. Gentiles are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27.

Detailed scripture support here...

1. ORIGIN OF ISRAEL AND THE 12 TRIBES linked
2. MEANING OF THE NAME OF GOD'S ISRAEL linked
3. GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT IS GOD'S CHURCH linked
4. GENTILES ARE NOW GRAFTED IN WITH GOD'S ISRAEL linked

Sorry my friend God's WORD disagrees with you.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.

So why are you trying to jettison/export me from this thread to argue the same in yours? Essentially it's on topic here. All the links are contained in my post. Since it's more than a week, the effect is the same. It took me a week to carefully make those posts because they're so long. If you want them in your thread you do the c&p work. You're good at it. Self promotion stinks.

 

[ace of hearts]

That one is a "keeper" for those who know what "context" means.

And it explains the "rest" of that post perfectly.

OK, Explain it. Paul changes context in the way we're dead to the law. Granted we're dead to the law either way. In 6 he says we're dead. In 7 he says the law is dead.

 

[ace of hearts]

The thing is:

God is writing His laws in our hearts today---That is the new covenant---no priestly sacrifices, none of that which pointed to Jesus. He will wrote them in our hearts. But, as with anything else--He will not force those laws to be written in anyone's heart that does not want them there. He never forces. So, if you don't want them, they won't be there--if you only want one of them, you get one, if you only want 4 of them,. you get 4--if you only want 9--you get 9. Whatever you want, whatever you allow, is what will be written there. Bottom line is---they are written somewhere--in the heart or on stone in the heavenly ark--they are written down.
God never asks for the possible---He always asks for the impossible--because with Him--all things are possible. By all---He mean all.

Well I guess you can argue for the law anywhere you want. The law isn't part of Christianity. Yes I understand the law is preached on a regular basis in so called grace oriented churches. I no longer could accept their mixed gospel. If one voices a disagreement with the pastor even privately you just as well not go again. Your only tolerated and not fellowshiped. Being a yes man is how erroneous doctrine gets started. So suck it up because anything your persons of authority is true. Hehe!

 

[ace of hearts]

ALL the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 are fulfilled in Christ and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT.

Well I think it relates to the sabbath being a shadow law.

 

[mmksparbud]

Well I guess you can argue for the law anywhere you want. The law isn't part of Christianity. Yes I understand the law is preached on a regular basis in so called grace oriented churches. I no longer could accept their mixed gospel. If one voices a disagreement with the pastor even privately you just as well not go again. Your only tolerated and not fellowshiped. Being a yes man is how erroneous doctrine gets started. So suck it up because anything your persons of authority is true. Hehe!

So you do not believe that God has written His law I our hearts now? Do you then toss those scriptures out? You have presented arguments stating that the law is written in our hearts now and not on stone as a way of saying the ones in stone are no longer valid--so which is it?

And by the way---the Sabbath was never a shadow of things to come as were the priestly laws that Jesus replaced--nor were any of the 10--The Sabbath pointed backward, to creation itself, and to God as it's creator.

 

[ace of hearts]

So you do not believe that God has written His law I our hearts now?

His law or the covenant made exclusively with Israel? Why don't you understand that I have no conviction about keeping the 7th day and promote Jesus as my sole ticket to eternal life? Jesus said He is the way, the truth and the eternal life, didn't He? Why then do you promote the law as the way of eternal life? Didn't Jesus say you can only access the Father thru Him. Why do you promote access thru the law?

Do you then toss those scriptures out?

No I don't toss those Scriptures out. In a sense God did. God told us thru Jeremiah there will be a new unprecedented covenant issued. Jesus said that new covenant is current. Paul was inspired to write -

Gal 5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

This passage clearly says to the Jew if you return to the law you don't accept Jesus. To the gentile it's essentially the same. The only difference would be turn instead of return. The short course is you can't have both. You either accept the law for salvation or accept Jesus for salvation. Jesus said you can't serve two masters. You will love one and hate the other. I give the same advice as Paul and tell you to throw out the law. I love Romans more than Galatians. But for you maybe Galatians would be better. It's much shorter. I suggest reading it more than once a day until you have it more less memorized.

You have presented arguments stating that the law is written in our hearts now and not on stone as a way of saying the ones in stone are no longer valid--so which is it?

No I haven't presented the famous 10 as being written on our heart. Neither does Jeremiah.

And by the way---the Sabbath was never a shadow of things to come as were the priestly laws that Jesus replaced--nor were any of the 10--The Sabbath pointed backward, to creation itself, and to God as it's creator.

You can claim anything you want.

 

[bbbbbbb]

So you do not believe that God has written His law I our hearts now? Do you then toss those scriptures out? You have presented arguments stating that the law is written in our hearts now and not on stone as a way of saying the ones in stone are no longer valid--so which is it?

And by the way---the Sabbath was never a shadow of things to come as were the priestly laws that Jesus replaced--nor were any of the 10--The Sabbath pointed backward, to creation itself, and to God as it's creator.

You are quite correct. The Sabbath has nothing whatsoever to do with the Law. It is, after all, the Law, which is the shadow of good things to come.

Hebrews 10:1 For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

OK, Explain it. Paul changes context in the way we're dead to the law. Granted we're dead to the law either way. In 6 he says we're dead. In 7 he says the law is dead.

Your confused. WE are not dead to the LAW we are dead to sin to walk in newness of life.

ROMANS 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

ROMANS 6:11 Likewise reckon you also yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

ROMANS 6:13 Neither yield you your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin: but yield yourselves to God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

God's ETERNAL LAW gives us the KNOWLEDGE of SIN when we break God's LAW *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4

ROMANS 7:5-6 [5], For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit to death.[6], But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

BEING DEAD TO THAT WHICH HELD US IS SIN not the law that gives us the KNOWLEDGE of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7

Hope this helps.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Well I think it relates to the sabbath being a shadow law.

The SABBATH cannot be a SHADOW of anything as it is a part of God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) that give is the KNOWLEDGE of what sin is if broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. It was also a part of the FINISHED work of creation BEFORE SIN and God's plan of salvation was given to mankind.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You are quite correct. The Sabbath has nothing whatsoever to do with the Law. It is, after all, the Law, which is the shadow of good things to come.

Hebrews 10:1 For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near.

You are mixing up the SHADOW LAWS from the MOSIAC BOOK of the COVENANT with God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4.

HEBREWS 10:1-8 (No more animal sacrifices from the MOSAIC BOOK of the law)
[1], For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
[2], For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
[3], But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
[4], For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
[5], Why when he comes into the world, he said, Sacrifice and offering you would not, but a body have you prepared me:
[6], In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin you have had no pleasure.
[7], Then said I, See, I come in the volume of the book it is written of me, to do your will, O God.
[8], Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin you would not, neither had pleasure therein; which are offered by the law.

Yep no more SIN OFFERINGS and SHADOW LAWS written in the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 pointing to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT.

Hope this helps.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I very painfully connected all the dots in my posts. I left nothing out.

Actually NO you did not you simply ignored the posts provided in LOVE as a help to you and posted things that did not address the post and tried to make strawman arguments the post was not even talking about.

So you can respond here or not.

I do not mind responding here at all but I may have to re-post what I have written here as well so that everything is together in one section so everyone can see you that you have not addressed the posts you say you have.

So why are you trying to jettison/export me from this thread to argue the same in yours?

Because your in the habbit of writing to me in one thread and then you try and respond to me in another thread so I cannot find the original post that your responding to.

It's ok I will just repost my posts on ROMANS 7:6 to this thread.