Why is Suicide Wrong

[2tim_215]

Hi how is pertinent to your own choices but not those of others nor public policy.

I don't believe in Euthanasia or killing people because of their ethnic background but I trust God in the decisions He makes. As was pointed out to you by others there were good reason that God did or allowed to be done to certain groups in the Old Testament.

You’re a citizen in a democratic republic, you have at least a small part in what the laws are unless you choose not to.

I am not actively involved in politics. There's quite a few controversial issues, this being one of them but who really cares for my political views?

 

[2tim_215]

If they would rather die on their own terms the option should be available to them.

Your opinion. See your next comment. What if htere's a miraculous healing or some new medical discovery?

Where people are legally allowed control over their own death there are evaluations done to screen for that to ensure people are expressing their rational will.

I say that anyone who request death and are willing to take their own life is not rational. And with the kinds of illnesses you're suggesting it's unlikely that they are in the right state of mind to make this decision, thus eliminating any possibility to be cured.

Working on =/= have. If people choose not to suffer in the meantime should they be compelled to?

They actually have things they can do for terminal patients to make them as comfortable as possible and reduce pain.

 

[Par5]

Your arms are too short to box with God.

Well, if you present him to me I'll give it a go. You can present him to me, can't you?
Any place you like, but I bet he doesn't show.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Well, if you present him to me I'll give it a go. You can present him to me, can't you?
Any place you like, but I bet he doesn't show.

As an atheist you are 'boxing' with him everyday......and losing badly.
https://urbanfaith.com/2011/09/who-said-your-arm-is-too-short-to-box-with-god.html/

 

[Par5]

As an atheist you are 'boxing' with him everyday......and losing badly.
https://urbanfaith.com/2011/09/who-said-your-arm-is-too-short-to-box-with-god.html/

He can't be very good, because he hasn't landed any punches. Of course, he would be very very old now, so maybe his reflexes and sight aren't what they used to be.
Never mind, next time I'll wear a blindfold and tie one hand behind my back. That should even things up a little bit.

 

[2tim_215]

He can't be very good, because he hasn't landed any punches. Of course, he would be very very old now, so maybe his reflexes and sight aren't what they used to be.
Never mind, next time I'll wear a blindfold and tie one hand behind my back. That should even things up a little bit.

So you do believe He exists, just a little old?

 

[Par5]

So you do believe He exists, just a little old?

No, just a little bit of sarcasm. Seconds out!

 

[OldWiseGuy]

He can't be very good, because he hasn't landed any punches. Of course, he would be very very old now, so maybe his reflexes and sight aren't what they used to be.
Never mind, next time I'll wear a blindfold and tie one hand behind my back. That should even things up a little bit.

God is actually toying with unbelievers, such as producing 'evidence' for evolution (called "strong delusion"), but has a big SUNDAY PUNCH for you guys in the future. Hint: He's going to send a younger fellow, his Son, to deliver it.
Or like we used to say in the army He's gonna bring smoke.

Just giving a heads up. You're welcome.

 

[2tim_215]

Philippians 2:9-11 (KJV)
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Romans 14:11-12 (KJV)
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

It's inevitable.

 

[Par5]

God is actually toying with unbelievers, such as producing 'evidence' for evolution (called "strong delusion"), but has a big SUNDAY PUNCH for you guys in the future. Hint: He's going to send a younger fellow, his Son, to deliver it.
Or like we used to say in the army He's gonna bring smoke.

Just giving a heads up. You're welcome.

Yes, I would agree that what you say is delusional, strongly delusional even!
Anyway, I wouldn't be interested in his smoke. I quit the dreaded weed 33 years ago.

 

[Desk trauma]

I don't believe in Euthanasia or killing people because of their ethnic background but I trust God in the decisions He makes.

You don't get to say you don't belief in genocide if you say that it's ok when its found in biblical stories.

As was pointed out to you by others there were good reason that God did or allowed to be done to certain groups in the Old Testament.

The post hoc justifications that believers have come up with are anything but good.

Your opinion. See your next comment. What if htere's a miraculous healing or some new medical discovery?

I hope that as some point currently incurable and barely treatable illnesses go the way of small pox but we have to deal with what is not what may be in the future.

I say that anyone who request death and are willing to take their own life is not rational.

Based on what? Why can't a person weight the suffering they will have to endure against a swift painless death and chose to end their own life rather then linger and die horribly? Why can't that be a rational choice?

And with the kinds of illnesses you're suggesting it's unlikely that they are in the right state of mind to make this decision, thus eliminating any possibility to be cured.

The illnesses that I used as examples have no cure, at best middling treatment of symptoms especially in the end stages and upon diagnosis the person is lucid enough to still make their own choices.

They actually have things they can do for terminal patients to make them as comfortable as possible and reduce pain.

What of those who would rather forgo the entire ordeal? Why force them to endure what they would rather not? Why do others get to make their choices for them?

 

[Loren T.]

I agree that suicide is wrong because it's murder. Does that mean the result is always hell? IDK. However if I'd been the guy in the op I think I probably would have jumped too, and prayed for God to forgive me on the way down. I remember reading somewhere, about a guy that was trapped on a Ledge on a burning building and just about the time that the flames reached him, he made a beautiful three summersault dive head on into a man hole cover. Can't fault that man for his composure or style. If you ever, God forbid, have a friend who takes his life, it will challenge your perspective. God is merciful. But yes, suicide is sin, but worse is what it does to those left behind.

 

[2tim_215]

You don't get to say you don't belief in genocide if you say that it's ok when its found in biblical stories.

First off, you don't get to say what I can say. As for what you term "genocide" I trust God allowing it or even ordaining it, doing it for a good reason. Two reasons for atheists being atheists:
1) they want to challenge God and not be accountable for their actions
2) they want to be god themselves

The post hoc justifications that believers have come up with are anything but good.

Again your opinion. Even if I don't for certain, I trust that He's done the right thing and it's for our benefit in the long run.

I hope that as some point currently incurable and barely treatable illnesses go the way of small pox but we have to deal with what is not what may be in the future.

They will. You just have to have faith they will.
There have been treatments for almost everything (they're even curing cancer more and more these days which was unheard of). Wouldn't it be something that right after someone has committed suicide that they come up for cure for whatever is ailing them? That would be unfortunate, for them anyway.

Based on what? Why can't a person weight the suffering they will have to endure against a swift painless death and chose to end their own life rather then linger and die horribly? Why can't that be a rational choice?

They can you and Satan would like nothing more for them to take their own lives removing any possibility for hope. How man know miracles have occurred for what was considered terminal cases?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...acle-survivors-club-proved-doctors-wrong.html
What if they are incorrectly diagnosed or not given the best medication?
Are there any documented cases?
https://www.quora.com/Are-there-any-documented-cases-of-patients-recovering-from-terminal-illnesses
Do you ever hear of palliative care? Look it up on google. You make it sound like there are no alternatives. There are.

The illnesses that I used as examples have no cure, at best middling treatment of symptoms especially in the end stages and upon diagnosis the person is lucid enough to still make their own choices.

Almost anything can be cured, some harder than others and they can life more palatable for those who have those illnesses.

What of those who would rather forgo the entire ordeal? Why force them to endure what they would rather not? Why do others get to make their choices for them?

Because they'd be murdering themselves and plenty have explained why that's not a good thing to you.

 

[Desk trauma]

First off, you don't get to say what I can say. As for what you term "genocide" I trust God allowing it or even ordaining it, doing it for a good reason. Two reasons for atheists being atheists:
1) they want to challenge God and not be accountable for their actions
2) they want to be god themselves

Rather then those straw men positions we can go with the reason I, and most other atheists, view the matter as we do. We are not persuaded by the claims of theists about their gods.

will. You just have to have faith they will.

Hopefully at some point but again its am matter of dealing with what is and making choices accordingly.

There have been treatments for almost everything (they're even curing cancer more and more these days which was unheard of). Wouldn't it be something that right after someone has committed suicide that they come up for cure for whatever is ailing them? That would be unfortunate, for them anyway.

Yes it would be. Still an unpersuasive reason to restrict someones right over their own body and life.

They can you and Satan would like nothing more for them to take their own lives removing any possibility for hope.

Now Im in with satan, sigh.

Im not anxious for others to chose to end their lives I am just in support of them having the option and assistance in doing so if that is their choice.

Do you ever hear of palliative care? Look it up on google. You make it sound like there are no alternatives. There are.

Even where people are allowed medical help in ending their own lives such options are available. What's your point?

Almost anything can be cured, some harder than others and they can life more palatable for those who have those illnesses.

The illnesses I listed remain in the almost as there are no cures at present and the only outcome is a horrible death.

 

[Par5]

First off, you don't get to say what I can say. As for what you term "genocide" I trust God allowing it or even ordaining it, doing it for a good reason. Two reasons for atheists being atheists:
1) they want to challenge God and not be accountable for their actions
2) they want to be god themselves




Again your opinion. Even if I don't for certain, I trust that He's done the right thing and it's for our benefit in the long run.


They will. You just have to have faith they will.
There have been treatments for almost everything (they're even curing cancer more and more these days which was unheard of). Wouldn't it be something that right after someone has committed suicide that they come up for cure for whatever is ailing them? That would be unfortunate, for them anyway.




They can you and Satan would like nothing more for them to take their own lives removing any possibility for hope. How man know miracles have occurred for what was considered terminal cases?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...acle-survivors-club-proved-doctors-wrong.html
What if they are incorrectly diagnosed or not given the best medication?
Are there any documented cases?
https://www.quora.com/Are-there-any-documented-cases-of-patients-recovering-from-terminal-illnesses
Do you ever hear of palliative care? Look it up on google. You make it sound like there are no alternatives. There are.


Almost anything can be cured, some harder than others and they can life more palatable for those who have those illnesses.


Because they'd be murdering themselves and plenty have explained why that's not a good thing to you.

Atheists are not challenging your god. Atheists don't believe in your god. What they are challenging, in this particular case, is your view that genocide is fine so long it's sanctioned by the god you believe in. In other words, your belief system allows you to excuse the inexcusable. Christians keep saying that the Canaanites and the Amalekites were beyond redemption and that killing every last one was the only solution.
I think that everyone would agree that ISIS is an evil organization whose members have committed some of the most barbaric acts imaginable and that not many people would shed any tears if they are hunted down and killed, but I also think that most people with even a modicum of humanity, would draw the line at killing their women and children as part of the solution.
It would appear that your god can't even keep one of its own commandments, "Thou shalt not kill" as that is exactly what the bible says it told its followers to do.
Perhaps you don't consider putting children and infants to the sword as killing. Perhaps you have another word for it, you know, one that makes it ok.

 

[2tim_215]

Atheists are not challenging your god. Atheists don't believe in your god. What they are challenging, in this particular case, is your view that genocide is fine so long it's sanctioned by the god you believe in. In other words, your belief system allows you to excuse the inexcusable. Christians keep saying that the Canaanites and the Amalekites were beyond redemption and that killing every last one was the only solution.
I think that everyone would agree that ISIS is an evil organization whose members have committed some of the most barbaric acts imaginable and that not many people would shed any tears if they are hunted down and killed, but I also think that most people with even a modicum of humanity, would draw the line at killing their women and children as part of the solution.
It would appear that your god can't even keep one of its own commandments, "Thou shalt not kill" as that is exactly what the bible says it told its followers to do.
Perhaps you don't consider putting children and infants to the sword as killing. Perhaps you have another word for it, you know, one that makes it ok.

Talk about strawman arguments, I never said I was in favor of genocide (although you seem to keep saying that I do). What I said is that I trust God that whatever He did was for a purpose. You should have a real problem with your fellow man which has done a lot worse and don't blame it on God, because according to you He doesn't exist. And ISIS doesn't kill women and children? What do you call that when they use them for human shields?

 

[Desk trauma]

alk about strawman arguments, I never said I was in favor of genocide (although you seem to keep saying that I do). What I said is that I trust God that whatever He did was for a purpose.

Which means you are in favor of it if your deity commands it.

 

[Par5]

Talk about strawman arguments, I never said I was in favor of genocide (although you seem to keep saying that I do). What I said is that I trust God that whatever He did was for a purpose. You should have a real problem with your fellow man which has done a lot worse and don't blame it on God, because according to you He doesn't exist. And ISIS doesn't kill women and children? What do you call that when they use them for human shields?

If as you say you trust your god's reason to eradicate an entire nation from the face of the earth by putting men women and children to the sword, then disagree all you wish, but that means you approved an act of genocide. And where did I say that ISIS don't kill women and children?
Also, I don't blame any god for the misdeeds of men, just as I have said often in the past that I don't blame any god for the slaughter of the Canaanites or Amalekites. If such bible atrocities did occur they had nothing to do with any god, they were the actions of men told by their leaders that the god they believed in had commanded such an action, therefore in their minds providing justification for such barbarity.
You appear to have the same mindset.

 

[2tim_215]

Which means you are in favor of it if your deity commands it.

It means I accept it which doesn't mean I approve of it.

 

[Desk trauma]

It means I accept it which doesn't mean I approve of it.

A distinction without a difference.