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Why is my faith not enough?

Fervent

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The first half shows centuries of back and forth between man and God. Examples. The second half was chosen to give credence to a growing movement that usurped the original movement which followed two simple principles. Done in order to create yet another empire of man. This second half clearly shows also how man refuses to follow the will of God as man will take anything good, including those teo sentences and expand on them for human reasons, and use it for our own purposes. The Bible needed only be two sentences yes, but man can't help showing off.
If this is so, then why should we bother reading the Bible at all? If all we need is two sentences, and the Bible merely sets up an empire for men, why bother with it at all?
 
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timothyu

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People need to spiritually mature beyond themselves.
And sure enough when living amongst tribal mentality someone or other will eventually sway the whole lot, not always in the right direction. In any flock of sheep there are only a few brave enough to wander off. Threat of violence and punishment kept the flock close to home for centuries until one day many realized it was their human shepherd that would eventually eat them or sacrifice them.
 
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Fervent

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I'm just going to make a generalized statement here. If the shoe fits,....then it fits.

Any Christian that "actually" has the regenerated human spirit inside of them from the blood of Jesus will automatically want to be a part of the body of Christ, and be in proximity to them. When I say proximity to them, I mean from 3 to 10 feet from people, not over the internet.

The time of GOD's people living in caves and the holes of the earth was over when Jesus said "it is finished."

This idea that we can become monks and hermits, and live a life apart from other Christians is a false teaching that has no New Covenant support. We cannot minster unto ourselves, we can only minister unto other Christians by grace, and others outside of Christianity by GOD's mercy,.... all of it done by the The Holy Spirit inside of us,..... if you actually have Him inside.

People need to spiritually mature beyond themselves.
You had me until you diminished the value of monks and hermits. While there isn't an advantage to such a lifestyle over the ordinary living of Christian laity, monks and hermits are needed in the community at large and provide a valuable service to the body. Hermitage isn't about spiritual isolation, but is a thoroughly communal reality where the hermit escapes worldly political systems in order to gain knowledge of God to convey to those who toil with the ordinary challenges of life. The hermit desires community and human companionship, but denies himself such pleasures for the higher good of deep dependance upon God for communion.
 
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Jo555

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Some people have told me, why you even bother. It's no use.

I tell them, you think I wanna be here, but He has led me and now engaged my heart.

I'm growing discouraged though so we'll see as my heart still engaged. Have to take those feelings to Him.

Sometimes our time somewhere is short. Sometimes longer. Taking it step by step with Him and see how it goes
 
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timothyu

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If this is so, then why should we bother reading the Bible at all? If all we need is two sentences, and the Bible merely sets up an empire for men, why bother with it at all?
Because some people can't see what is in front of them, the blind having been teaching the blind since birth for so long. Tt simply shows how we constantly put our will first and the results because we fail to put God's will first thus doing for others first what we expect of Him for ourselves. If that doesn't have us realize how stupid we are and cause us to repent of our backwards way, then all God can hope for is that we at least treat each other as we would want to be treated. But even something that simple is too much to comprehend for most. A few try to show throughout history that point by way of the pen, giving us a backstory in the process, but most take it and use it and God to turn them into just another self serving empire in man's image. We really don't deserve salvation and yet God offers it anyway for those willing to transcend the backwards ways of mankind.
 
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Fervent

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Because some people can't see what is in front of them, the blind having been teaching the blind since birth for so long. Tt simply shows how we constantly put our will first and the results because we fail to put God's will first thus doing for others first what we expect of Him for ourselves. If that doesn't have us realize how stupid we are and cause us to repent of our backwards way, then all God can hope for is that we at least treat each other as we would want to be treated. But even something that simple is too much to comprehend for most.
This doesn't really answer my question, since there's no need for readding the Bible if all we need is two sentences. All we need is a post it note, the Bible becomse superfluous. In fact, it would seem that you are accusing Biblical authors like Paul of sinfulness in writing their letters of instruction since all they would have needed to write was two sentences.
 
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ARBITER01

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You had me until you diminished the value of monks and hermits. While there isn't an advantage to such a lifestyle over the ordinary living of Christian laity, monks and hermits are needed in the community at large and provide a valuable service to the body. Hermitage isn't about spiritual isolation, but is a thoroughly communal reality where the hermit escapes worldly political systems in order to gain knowledge of God to convey to those who toil with the ordinary challenges of life. The hermit desires community and human companionship, but denies himself such pleasures for the higher good of deep dependance upon God for communion.

Sorry Fervent, I know of no passages under the New Covenant that portrays living like a monk or hermit as a ministry in the body of Christ. It would only be a personal decision to do so, not a direction from GOD.

I'm an INTJ personality, I'm very introverted, but I quickly learned that one of my spiritual strengths was from being with and around the body of Christ. Granted, I may have to leave halfway through the service if there are too many people, but I am there throughout the worship and praise portion, and I give of my earnings every Sunday.

Being in fellowship and around other believers is where the cleansing of the blood happens. This is an experienced event for me every Sunday as well as other days that I'm at my church.
 
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timothyu

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Biblical authors like Paul of sinfulness in writing their letters of instruction since all they would have needed to write was two sentences.
Paul wrote on how to build a religion, even fighting with the Apostles on how the churches should be run. Handy for gentile empire builders to use. Must be why they chose to include only those few epistles. when there must have been more of those actual teachings if he taught the Gospel of the Kingdom as he claimed. Man chose what to include for man's purposes. The Bible is a mixture of truth but also examples of failure to follow that truth and a whole lot of how to use God to build human empires. God simply asked us to follow those two commandments. He would take care of the rest. Righting adversarial ways goes way beyond just mankind. But man prefers our own empires over that of His Kingdom so we keep the focus on ourselves. Salvation in all its forms is given to others first if we want to receive it from Him.
 
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Fervent

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Sorry Fervent, I know of no passages under the New Covenant that portrays living like a monk or hermit as a ministry in the body of Christ. It would only be a personal decision to do so, not a direction from GOD.

I'm an INTJ personality, I'm very introverted, but I quickly learned that one of my spiritual strengths was from being with and around the body of Christ. Granted, I may have to leave halfway through the service if there are too many people, but I am there throughout the worship and praise portion, and I give of my earnings every Sunday.

Being in fellowship and around other believers is where the cleansing of the blood happens. This is an experienced event for me every Sunday as well as other days that I'm at my church.
Every member of the body serves a different function, what serves one is not what serves another. Monks are the ultimate form of living in community with fellow believers, as Acts speaks of some being set apart from the community to dedicate themselves to full time prayer on behalf of the rest of the body. The life of the monk is complete dedication to God and trust of the rest of the Christian community to support them. Hermits are a development of the ascetic life, which while not explicitely discussed in the Bible are recognized as serving the community as a whole. The notion that the Biblical corpus is exhaustive of what is appropriate isn't something that I find within either the Bible itself or the documents of those who followed in the faith.
 
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Fervent

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Paul wrote on how to build a religion. Handy for empire builders to use. The Bible is a mixture of truth but also examples of failure to follow that truth and a whole lot of how to use God to build human empires. God simply asked us to follow those two commandments. He would take care of the rest. Righting adversarial ways goes way beyond just mankind.
Was Paul not inspired by God in his writing? Why would God provide a manual for building religion if His intent was fully captured in two sentences?
 
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ARBITER01

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Every member of the body serves a different function, what serves one is not what serves another. Monks are the ultimate form of living in community with fellow believers, as Acts speaks of some being set apart from the community to dedicate themselves to full time prayer on behalf of the rest of the body. The life of the monk is complete dedication to God and trust of the rest of the Christian community to support them. Hermits are a development of the ascetic life, which while not explicitely discussed in the Bible are recognized as serving the community as a whole. The notion that the Biblical corpus is exhaustive of what is appropriate isn't something that I find within either the Bible itself or the documents of those who followed in the faith.

Sorry but I don't agree with you.

Anyone can be set aside for prayer, but not the rest of their lifetime doing it. I think you're just fooling yourself on that.
 
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Jo555

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Some people have told me, why you even bother. It's no use.

I tell them, you think I wanna be here, but He has led me and now engaged my heart.

I'm growing discouraged though so we'll see as my heart still engaged. Have to take those feelings to Him.

Sometimes our time somewhere is short. Sometimes longer. Taking it step by step with Him and see how it goes
All how his Spirit leads, whether alone with Him for a season, or out with others learning and growing together.
 
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Fervent

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Sorry but I don't agree with you.

Anyone can be set aside for prayer, but not the rest of their lifetime doing it. I think you're just fooling yourself on that.
Let each be convinced in their own mind, I have no qualms with you disagreeing. Though I believe your premise upon which your disagreement is built is misguided.
 
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timothyu

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A monk or hermit does an admirable thing in separating the world of man from the Kingdom and living accordingly. But neither can fulfill God's second commandment if they don't have the nerve or skills to live out in the world but not be of it. Otherwise they just serve the choir and not the ill, hiding their talent in the earth.
 
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ARBITER01

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Let each be convinced in their own mind, I have no qualms with you disagreeing. Though I believe your premise upon which your disagreement is built is misguided.

That premise is built on examples from Jesus and our apostles.

The notion that the Biblical corpus is exhaustive of what is appropriate isn't something that I find within either the Bible itself or the documents of those who followed in the faith.

Well,... Paul's list on ministries over in Corinthians was quite exhaustive, and I don't see anyone of those ministries being an island unto themselves.

As I said before, it would be a personal decision, that person's will, not GOD's.
 
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Fervent

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That premise is built on examples from Jesus and our apostles.
I'm not certain you understand which premise I am referring to.
Well,... Paul's list on ministries over in Corinthians was quite exhaustive, and I don't see anyone of those ministries being an island unto themselves.
What makes you believe it was exhaustive?
As I said before, it would be a personal decision, that person's will, not GOD's.
Seems awfully presumptuous to declare what God's will is for people you've never met.
 
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ARBITER01

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What makes you believe it was exhaustive?

Well I am one that does believe in scripture, and the whole of the NT teachings for the church were entrusted to Paul by Jesus, not anyone else. If people who call themselves Christians are doing things backwards from, and outside of scripture, then they are out of the will of The Father.

Again,.... there are no examples of someone living a monk or hermit type of life in scripture. It wasn't taught by The Holy Spirit in scripture.

Seems awfully presumptuous to declare what God's will is for people you've never met.

Is it?

If a person calls themself a Christian but decides to do things completely outside of what is described in scripture, are they really a Christian? What standard are we to abide by when we become a Christian?

Additionally, are they truly led by The Holy Spirit when they are doing things outside and against scripture,..... which was written by The Holy Spirit through our apostles?

I think you're going to have to let go of that lie you have accepted and mature spiritually beyond it. We are part of a body, and that body associates with itself,.... or it remains in a spiritual decline.
 
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Fervent

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Well I am one that does believe in scripture, and the whole of the NT teachings for the church were entrusted to Paul by Jesus, not anyone else. If people who call themselves Christians are doing things backwards from, and outside of scripture, then they are out of the will of The Father.

Again,.... there are no examples of someone living a monk or hermit type of life in scripture. It wasn't taught by The Holy Spirit in scripture.
Again, your premise of Biblical sufficiency doesn't appear supportable to me either from the Bible itself or from the writings of those taught by the apostles. So your reply is non-responsive to my question.
Is it?

If a person calls themself a Christian but decides to do things completely outside of what is described in scripture, are they really a Christian? What standard are we to abide by when we become a Christian?

Additionally, are they truly led by The Holy Spirit when they are doing things outside and against scripture,..... which was written by The Holy Spirit through our apostles?

I think you're going to have to let go of that lie you have accepted and mature spiritually beyond it. We are part of a body, and that body associates with itself,.... or it remains in a spiritual decline.
You are adding to the Scripture a prohibition that doesn't exist within Scripture, by inferring a lack of comment on monastic life and hermitage as being equivalent with condemnation or opposition. You are doing things outside of Scripture in making such a declaration. So yes, it is quite presumptuous of you to declare what the will of God is for people you've never met.
 
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ARBITER01

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Again, your premise of Biblical sufficiency doesn't appear supportable to me either from the Bible itself or from the writings of those taught by the apostles. So your reply is non-responsive to my question.

I'm sorry you can't understand me.

You are adding to the Scripture a prohibition that doesn't exist within Scripture, by inferring a lack of comment on monastic life and hermitage as being equivalent with condemnation or opposition. You are doing things outside of Scripture in making such a declaration. So yes, it is quite presumptuous of you to declare what the will of God is for people you've never met.

Again,... if you are going to live your life and do things outside of scripture, how am I to consider you an actual Christian? There is a standard to go by in Christianity, and that standard is the writings of Jesus and our apostles.

If you want to live it some other way then what was put down on those pages, just understand that is your choice and your will.

I think our conversation on this is over. Laters.
 
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Fervent

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I'm sorry you can't understand me.
I understand you just fine. Your reply doesn't respond to my question, it just asserts your position.
Again,... if you are going to live your life and do things outside of scripture, how am I to consider you an actual Christian? There is a standard to go by in Christianity, and that standard is the writings of Jesus and our apostles.

If you want to live it some other way then what was put down on those pages, just understand that is your choice and your will.

I think our conversation on this is over. Laters.
Where does the Bible authorize you to judge who is and isn't a Christian?
 
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