Why is "MAGA" offensive?

[WherevertheWindblows]

’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists.

Facebook posts suggesting immigrants should be shot at the border spark outrage

FACT CHECK: Are 'One-Third' of Caravan Migrants Sick with HIV, Tuberculosis, and Chicken Pox?



Actually illegal immigrants are tremendously welcome here by businesses and rich people hiring nannies and housekeepers. If we didn't keep hiring them, they wouldn't keep coming.

I would welcome legal immigrants, and drugs are crossing the border and crime, and Im sure he doesnt know how many are bringing in disease, but thats such a small thing.

I had illegal immigrants fix my roof (a big box store hired them) and I was in mediation for 5 years of hell because of it, not feeling the love here on the hiring part

 

[EpiscipalMe]

You are kidding, right?

No, I am not kidding.

So far, you have done a remarkable job of parroting right wing talking points, but offered no real evidence that the Democratic Party supports open borders.

Like what?

Trump ramps up rhetoric on undocumented immigrants: 'These aren't people. These are animals.'
Trump Calls Some Unauthorized Immigrants ‘Animals’ in Rant
Trump cherry-picks examples of violent illegal immigrants to stir up his base, but the statistics tell a different story
https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/11/poli... do not curse]hole-countries-trump/index.html
and the list goes on and on and on...

 

[camille70]

Like what?

Trump Calls Some Unauthorized Immigrants ‘Animals’ in Rant

Trump Refers To Immigrants As 'Animals.' Again.

 

[Radagast]

Commentary criticizing that paper:
The Perils of Cherry Picking Low Frequency Events in Large Sample Surveys
The Tangled Story Behind Trump’s False Claims Of Voter Fraud

Commentary by the author:
Some thoughts on non-citizen voting | Jesse Richman

Richman says "Both sides of the debate on non-citizen voting have exaggerated our findings concerning non-citizen representation. There are many on the left side of that debate who have relentlessly sought to discredit our results and want to push the level of estimated non-citizen participation to zero. On the right there has been a tendency to misread our results as proof of massive voter fraud, which we don’t think they are. Our focus has been on the data rather than the politics."

In his paper he and his co-authors say "How many non-citizen votes were likely cast in 2008? ... the number of non-citizen voters (including both uncertainty based on normally distributed sampling error, and the various combinations of verified and reported voting) could range from just over 38,000 at the very minimum to nearly 2.8 million at the maximum."

That data supports, as I said earlier, that (1) a large number of citizens do vote, and (2) nobody knows exactly how many.

 

[SummerMadness]

You are kidding, right?

Still haven't posted any quotes.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

I've not felt offense. I've just been wary of anyone wearing one, just like I am wary of men with confederate flag tattoos and emblems on their trucks. The instinct is to pull any kids I have with me close because the rhetoric and mindset of the ones most vocal among them indicates they wish me and mine harm.

To me, this is no different than feeling wary of a black man for simply wearing a hoodie.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

The difference is the candidate himself, not who endorsed him.

How so? Please explain.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Still haven't posted any quotes.

It is ironic how you are arguing for the offensiveness of "MAGA" when your profile picture is "Black Lives Matter". Would you find is acceptable for people to "feel offended" by someone wearing a black "BLM" hat? What message are you trying to provide with your picture?

 

[WherevertheWindblows]

Trump ramps up rhetoric on undocumented immigrants: 'These aren't people. These are animals.'

What time on the video did he say immigrants are animals?

Trump Calls Some Unauthorized Immigrants ‘Animals’ in Rant

Which ones? In what context? The criminal ones? Or just immigrants in general?

Trump: ‘Animals’ comment referred to MS-13 gang members

He calls MS-13 animals admittedly, they dehumanize people by slicing them up in pieces and people think Trump is dehumanizing them for calling them animals for doing what they do? People need to get a decent bone to pick with him.

Trump cherry-picks examples of violent illegal immigrants to stir up his base, but the statistics tell a different story

Everyone cherry picks, both sides do that. Nothing really earth shattering here

And this one speaks of Amercians commiting crimes at a much higher rate then illegal immigrants? If there is over 300 million Americans and theres only 11-22 million illegal immigrants thats sort of a no brainer that crime would be higher in the larger population (when making such a comparison) it actually should be. Although that is not always true when comparing white and black crime (even with the differences in the numbers in the population) but with the former its almost expected.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/11/poli... do not curse]hole-countries-trump/index.html
and the list goes on and on and on...

I couldnt visit the link because the bless not curse thing is over the alternative word for crap, but there are (I feel like a nursey school teacher) "poo poo hole" countries. Its the truth, that has nothing to do with peoples skin color but how crappy the country is kept, like you wouldnt drink the water, or crime is rampant, or the air is thick with pollution and theres an island of trash and a land under mounds of it. We call people homes who dont clean up after themselves the same thing if its true of them, I dont see anything untrue in the statement, however I would have just thought it (and not said it) but thats just him. We have poo poo cities dont we? Look at San Francisco (literally) they have a poop crisis
San Francisco's sidewalks are covered with human feces, so the city is launching a 'Poop Patrol' to deal with its No. 2 problem

 

[wing2000]

The point is that the source for American Greatness is not the President. It is the American people who make it great.

.I submit Americans are only great when the value and live by the ideas expressed in our Constitution.

...and I also think Trump would disagree with both of these statements.

 

[WherevertheWindblows]

Trump Calls Some Unauthorized Immigrants ‘Animals’ in Rant

Trump Refers To Immigrants As 'Animals.' Again.

He admittedly calls MS-13 animals, they dehumanize people by slicing them up in pieces and people think Trump is dehumanizing them "for calling them animals" for doing what they do to other people? And most of the time to other illegal immigrants.

He was speaking of MS-13

Trump: ‘Animals’ comment referred to MS-13 gang members

He is married to an immigrant

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

So, you think that it's just about votes?

I think that a lot of liberals genuinely believe that if you're against illegal immigration...you're racist. Therefore, they support illegal immigration...because they don't want others to think they're racist.

It's as if they don't realize that's not an argument for illegal immigration.

Exactly, Conservative Trump supporters what more LEGAL immigration. I know Trump has said it numerous times. LEGAL IMMIGRATION! But as the "Chief Executive" his responsibility is to enforce the laws passed by congress. Not pick and choose which laws to enforce. Trump has repeatedly asked congress for immigration reform to make it easier for people to come into this country LEGALLY. The only compromise was that he wanted to build a wall. He wanted to give the DACA immigrants a pathway to citizenship, but he wanted to stop the cause of the problem and not just deal with the problem with the wall. Well, we saw where that went. The vast majority of conservative Trump supporters are not racist bigots, I am a conservative who voted for Trump and I am married to a Mexican! A Mexican who's family came here LEGALLY!

And you are absolutely right! Liberals genuinely believe that anyone who is against ILLEGAL immigration is racist. I will say this, one of the biggest reasons why Trump was elected president in 2016 because for 8 long years conservative were called racist for simply disagreeing with President Obama's policies. Conservatives don't care about liberal name calling anymore. In fact, a lot of people I know voted for Trump because they wanted to finally "stick it" to the liberals for that very reason. So liberals, keep it up. But don't be surprised when you end up with Trump for another 4 years.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Please provide quotes of people saying they want open borders.

I didn't see him post anything about "open borders". Nice Strawman. Now try sticking to the actual comment that was made.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

He admittedly calls MS-13 animals, they dehumanize people by slicing them up in pieces and people think Trump is dehumanizing them "for calling them animals" for doing what they do to other people? And most of the time to other illegal immigrants.

He was speaking of MS-13

Trump: ‘Animals’ comment referred to MS-13 gang members

He is married to an immigrant

First, MS-13 are depraved, ruthless, animals. Second, he is married to a LEGAL IMMIGRANT. You do know the difference between a legal immigrant and an illegal immigrant. BTW...fun fact, did you know that 100% of illegal immigrants are criminals?

 

[camille70]

To me, this is no different than feeling wary of a black man for simply wearing a hoodie.

Exactly. I was also going to use that example earlier but didn't do it. We had malls changing and selectively enforcing dress codes because of what they feel a hoodie represents. It's not a problem on white college kids, women and obvious jocks, but it's a code word used in speaking about and targeting "menacing" black youth. There is a difference though. It's not the hoodie, it's the black skin wearing it. And it doesn't matter if that skin is in a hoodie or a suit. A lot of stuff, from hair styles on, associated with black ppl get criminalized. A white guy jogging is not a problem. A back guy jogging is running from a crime scene and gets the cops called on him. Everyone wants to control the appearance and behavior of black folks so that they don't feel uncomfortable. White kids can walk around goth, punk, any color of hair and it's dismissed as a phase. Only one hair choice is a problem for white folks, then only some of the time, and that's a total bald head because of the history of skinheads.

Discussions about stuff like this haven't ended well in the past, and I've yet to see any indication things have evolved enough to suggest a nuanced and sensitive conversation can take place. It's just a matter of time before someone comes in making racially insensitive remarks to provoke or attempt to get the thread closed. It's only left me with a lower opinion of some of the people who have participated, and I'd rather not go down that path again or get mentally confronted yet again with the realization of the mindsets and ideas that exist in my Christian brothers and sisters regarding race are really twisted. I learned long ago that this is not a safe space.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

.I submit Americans are only great when the value and live by the ideas expressed in our Constitution.

Yes, I absolutely agree. So you would then concede that is isn't so great for an American to attack another American for merely expressing their Constitutional right to freedom of speech by simply wearing a hat?

...and I also think Trump would disagree with both of these statements.

How so? Can you justify this statement with facts, not feelings?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

When fascism wins, we all lose.

Great! I agree, so who is pushing for fascism?

 

[WherevertheWindblows]

First, MS-13 are depraved, ruthless, animals. Second, he is married to a LEGAL IMMIGRANT. You do know the difference between a legal immigrant and an illegal immigrant. BTW...fun fact, did you know that 100% of illegal immigrants are criminals?

I so agree, I agree again, and yes I do and I agree a third time And lastly, it makes sense, one illegally entering would make each one that did so a criminal for not doing so legally.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Again. What does this non sequitur have to do with the fact that brave pugilistic hero Trump perpetually whines about how mistreated and put upon he is.

Try saying that after Trump wins this battle with democrats and gets his wall.

 

[USincognito]

Richman says "Both sides of the debate on non-citizen voting have exaggerated our findings concerning non-citizen representation. There are many on the left side of that debate who have relentlessly sought to discredit our results and want to push the level of estimated non-citizen participation to zero. On the right there has been a tendency to misread our results as proof of massive voter fraud, which we don’t think they are. Our focus has been on the data rather than the politics."

In his paper he and his co-authors say "How many non-citizen votes were likely cast in 2008? ... the number of non-citizen voters (including both uncertainty based on normally distributed sampling error, and the various combinations of verified and reported voting) could range from just over 38,000 at the very minimum to nearly 2.8 million at the maximum."

That data supports, as I said earlier, that (1) a large number of citizens do vote, and (2) nobody knows exactly how many.

Did you read the original paper? They note several times that non-citizen voting is small though potentially consequential. That said they used some very small numbers, some guesstimates and some prett wild extrapolation.
FACT CHECK: Did 5.7 Million 'Illegal Immigrants' Vote in the 2008 U.S. Election?