Why is "MAGA" offensive?

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

I'm still waiting for a quote about open borders. The most I have seen is posting something that is not calling for open borders and saying it's calling for open borders.

Who said anything about calling for open borders?

 

[wing2000]

Yes, I absolutely agree. So you would then concede that is isn't so great for an American to attack another American for merely expressing their Constitutional right to freedom of speech by simply wearing a hat?

Attacking another American is never acceptable behavior.

How so? Can you justify this statement with facts, not feelings?

Trump's own words:

There is great anger in our Country caused in part by inaccurate, and even fraudulent, reporting of the news. The Fake News Media, the true Enemy of the People, must stop the open & obvious hostility & report the news accurately & fairly. That will do much to put out the flame...
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...4/donald-trump-twitter-media-enemy-pittsburgh


143K
5:03 AM - Oct 29, 2018

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Still haven't posted any quotes.

Rep Keith Ellison D-MN

Are you satisfied now? In English, the shirt translates to “I do not believe in borders.”

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Attacking another American is never acceptable behavior.



Trump's own words:

There is great anger in our Country caused in part by inaccurate, and even fraudulent, reporting of the news. The Fake News Media, the true Enemy of the People, must stop the open & obvious hostility & report the news accurately & fairly. That will do much to put out the flame...
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...4/donald-trump-twitter-media-enemy-pittsburgh


143K
5:03 AM - Oct 29, 2018

And? How is that a call for fascism? Fake news is the enemy of the people because it destroys the credibility of the media and degrades their ability to hold elected leaders accountable. Because of all the fake news driven by ideology, people can no longer trust what they say even if they are telling the truth.

Both Sides of the Aisle Agree: The Media Is a Problem

Americans: Much Misinformation, Bias, Inaccuracy in News

How Much Confidence Do Americans Have in the Media?

 

[Radagast]

There is great anger in our Country caused in part by inaccurate, and even fraudulent, reporting of the news. The Fake News Media, the true Enemy of the People, must stop the open & obvious hostility & report the news accurately & fairly. That will do much to put out the flame...
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...4/donald-trump-twitter-media-enemy-pittsburgh

Can't argue with that, after the "MAGA hat teen" fiasco in DC.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

No, I am not kidding.

So far, you have done a remarkable job of parroting right wing talking points, but offered no real evidence that the Democratic Party supports open borders.



Trump ramps up rhetoric on undocumented immigrants: 'These aren't people. These are animals.'
Trump Calls Some Unauthorized Immigrants ‘Animals’ in Rant
Trump cherry-picks examples of violent illegal immigrants to stir up his base, but the statistics tell a different story
https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/11/poli... do not curse]hole-countries-trump/index.html
and the list goes on and on and on...

Fake news! LOL

 

[Radagast]

Fake news is the enemy of the people because it destroys the credibility of the media and degrades their ability to hold elected leaders accountable. Because of all the fake news driven by ideology, people can no longer trust what they say even if they are telling the truth.

Exactly. It becomes like the story of the boy who cried "wolf!"

 

[SummerMadness]

Rep Keith Ellison D-MN
View attachment 249837
Are you satisfied now? In English, the shirt translates to “I do not believe in borders.”

That's a T-shirt from a music group, Las Cafeteras, that's not a policy. Keep digging.

 

[Radagast]

Did you read the original paper?

Did you? I quoted the original paper. Let me do so again: "How many non-citizen votes were likely cast in 2008? ... the number of non-citizen voters (including both uncertainty based on normally distributed sampling error, and the various combinations of verified and reported voting) could range from just over 38,000 at the very minimum to nearly 2.8 million at the maximum."

I wouldn't say that any number in the range 38,000 to 2,800,000 is "small."

Now obviously Richman et al. are estimating based on a limited sample, which is why they give such a wide range. But they've done enough to show that a substantial number of non-citizens vote.

Snopes is also correct: the number of non-citizens voting is likely to be less that 5.7 million, because 2.8 is less than 5.7.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Great! I agree, so who is pushing for fascism?

Well, fascists, for one.

Let's look at the definition again: Fascism is "a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"

When Donald Trump calls the free press "the enemy of the people" that's a problem.
When Donald Trump praises dictators and says things like how he likes the idea of "president for life" that's a problem.
When Donald Trump calls refugees seeking asylum an "invasion" that's a problem.

Using fear and hate mongering to demonize groups of other humans beings--such as immigrants and Muslims--that's fascism at work.

Just so I'm clear, I don't think Donald Trump is some evil genius masterminding some nefarious plot to overthrow American democracy; he's a narcissistic and incompetent buffoon. I don't think America is going to become a fascist dictatorship--that's not my fear. My fear is that we have set dangerous precedent going forward into the future. We have allowed ourselves to become a nation ruled by hate, fear, and anger--Donald Trump is the national symbol of the darkest and worst parts of America. Trump will pass, but what has been established is that America's deep sickness is only ever just barely below the surface. And the day could come when someone who sounds like Trump but who is actually competent and capable should try to run for office, America simply may not be strong enough to recognize or stand up against such a danger. And it will be up to the rest of the world to keep us in check. God willing, that won't ever have to happen.

-CryptoLUtheran

 

[Radagast]

We have allowed ourselves to become a nation ruled by hate, fear, and anger

If that was true, directing hate, fear, and anger at working-class white people wearing red hats would not be the answer.

 

[SummerMadness]

I can't believe these doctors are for open borders!

That is the logic currently on display.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

That's a T-shirt from a music group, Las Cafeteras, that's not a policy. Keep digging.

Do you really think he is merely expressing his love for a music group? And you think someone wearing a "MAGA" hat is not merely expressing their patriotism. Nice double standard you have placed. Anyway, I really don't have to do a lot of digging.

"Ellison sported a T-shirt calling for the elimination of national borders while walking in a parade in May. The next month, he posed for a picture next to a sign that read, “No human being is illegal on stolen land.”
KEITH ELLISON CLAIMS NATIONAL BORDERS CREATE ‘AN INJUSTICE’

 

[Ana the Ist]

The Washington Examiner? Really?

Yup

And you call MSNBC and CNN fake news?

No...I don't recall ever saying that.

Show me where Keith Ellison has supported open borders in policy - something more than just a T-shirt.

So now, they don't just have to support open borders...they have to support a policy for open borders???

Any other requirements before I prove you wrong again??? Are we talking about campaign platforms or written policy???

We started out with no Democrats support it, to no Democrat politicians support it, to now you want a really important Democrat supporting it in a specific policy....lol.

I think we all see the game you're playing.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I can't believe these doctors are for open borders!

That is the logic currently on display.

Drs Without Borders is charity group...I Don't Believe in Borders is a political statement in favor of open borders.

I get it though, you need to desperately cling to a false narrative so you're conflating the two.

The cognitive dissonance is strong with this one.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Dp

 

[SummerMadness]

Do you really think he is merely expressing his love for a music group? And you think someone wearing a "MAGA" hat is not merely expressing their patriotism. Nice double standard you have placed. Anyway, I really don't have to do a lot of digging.

A T-shirt from a music group is not a policy.

"Ellison sported a T-shirt calling for the elimination of national borders while walking in a parade in May. The next month, he posed for a picture next to a sign that read, “No human being is illegal on stolen land.”
KEITH ELLISON CLAIMS NATIONAL BORDERS CREATE ‘AN INJUSTICE’

Again, you have provided a link, what's the quote? Post the quote that says there should be no borders. Is this a difficult proposition? A guy wearing a T-shirt from a music group is not the same as advocating a policy of open borders.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It is not what he did, it is what he said.

Well show me a policy where he dehumanizes them or it doesn't count...

 

[EpiscipalMe]

Richman says "Both sides of the debate on non-citizen voting have exaggerated our findings concerning non-citizen representation. There are many on the left side of that debate who have relentlessly sought to discredit our results and want to push the level of estimated non-citizen participation to zero. On the right there has been a tendency to misread our results as proof of massive voter fraud, which we don’t think they are. Our focus has been on the data rather than the politics."

In his paper he and his co-authors say "How many non-citizen votes were likely cast in 2008? ... the number of non-citizen voters (including both uncertainty based on normally distributed sampling error, and the various combinations of verified and reported voting) could range from just over 38,000 at the very minimum to nearly 2.8 million at the maximum."

That data supports, as I said earlier, that (1) a large number of citizens do vote, and (2) nobody knows exactly how many.

I posted critics of that paper who felt that data supported that there was essentially zero illegal immigrant voting.

How so? Please explain.

What time on the video did he say immigrants are animals?



Which ones? In what context? The criminal ones? Or just immigrants in general?

Trump: ‘Animals’ comment referred to MS-13 gang members

He calls MS-13 animals admittedly, they dehumanize people by slicing them up in pieces and people think Trump is dehumanizing them for calling them animals for doing what they do? People need to get a decent bone to pick with him.



Everyone cherry picks, both sides do that. Nothing really earth shattering here

And this one speaks of Amercians commiting crimes at a much higher rate then illegal immigrants? If there is over 300 million Americans and theres only 11-22 million illegal immigrants thats sort of a no brainer that crime would be higher in the larger population (when making such a comparison) it actually should be. Although that is not always true when comparing white and black crime (even with the differences in the numbers in the population) but with the former its almost expected.



I couldnt visit the link because the bless not curse thing is over the alternative word for crap, but there are (I feel like a nursey school teacher) "poo poo hole" countries. Its the truth, that has nothing to do with peoples skin color but how crappy the country is kept, like you wouldnt drink the water, or crime is rampant, or the air is thick with pollution and theres an island of trash and a land under mounds of it. We call people homes who dont clean up after themselves the same thing if its true of them, I dont see anything untrue in the statement, however I would have just thought it (and not said it) but thats just him. We have poo poo cities dont we? Look at San Francisco (literally) they have a poop crisis
San Francisco's sidewalks are covered with human feces, so the city is launching a 'Poop Patrol' to deal with its No. 2 problem

If you want to believe that Trump hasn’t said horrible things about Hispanics, go ahead.

Yup




No...I don't recall ever saying that.



So now, they don't just have to support open borders...they have to support a policy for open borders???

Any other requirements before I prove you wrong again??? Are we talking about campaign platforms or written policy???

We started out with no Democrats support it, to no Democrat politicians support it, to now you want a really important Democrat supporting it in a specific policy....lol.

I think we all see the game you're playing.

The “game” is show me where the Democrats (on a national level) legitimately support open borders. So far, we have the attorney general of Minnesota who wore a T-shirt once and a first term Congresswoman who supposedly supports open borders although no one has been able to show where she actually said this.

The argument that Democrats want open borders is a straw man. As has been pointed out many times, by conservatives, the Democratic caucus supported comprehensive border security legislation in 2006 and 2013. In 2013 it was the Republicans that blocked the legislation.

And the Washington Examiner is a rag. If I tried to support an argument with an opinion piece from Daily Amos, would you accept it? Of course not. The Washington Examiner is a right wing equivalent.

 

[EpiscipalMe]

Well show me a policy where he dehumanizes them or it doesn't count...

Trying to ban immigration from predominantly Muslim countries.

Separating children from parents at the border.

Closing the border to force a crisis on the Mexican side.

Trying to eliminate DACA protections.