Why is it called "ROMAN" Catholic Church

[LittleLambofJesus]

They are most certainly Roman. They are in the very same place the Caesars were. In Rome, the capital. The Vatican is a city right inside of Rome. There are numerous, and I mean NUMEROUS official documents I have read by the Roman Catholic Church that refer to themselves as the "Roman Catholic Church".

If the Catholic Church is now denying that the name "Roman" is associated with their official name, it is only because they are trying to face-save themselves--"patchup" work, from being understood as that Little Horn power that grew out of the Roman 4th Beast.

I think we are all well aware of how the SDAs view the RCC in bible prophecy.
However, we can always discuss Daniel on another thread

http://www.christianforums.com/t7492154/
The Characteristics of the "Little Horn" in Daniel 7

This thread is a continuation of my conversation with Husky on why I feel that the papacy/RCC does not match the characteristics of the Little Horn in Daniel 7. Of course, anyone is free to chime in.

Well, I had responded by stating that equating modern European nations with the tribes you believe divided the Roman Empire in 476AD is anachronistic, and doing so ignores all of the many migrations and genealogical shifts that took place in Europe throughout the centuries. Even the political topography of Europe in 476AD bears very little resemblance to present-day Europe. I also pointed out that in 476AD, the Lombards were outside of the Roman Empire. <snip>........................

If you’re interested in reading the letters of Justinian and the pope in full, click here (pg. 9-14).

 

[Johnny Todd]

They are most certainly Roman. They are in the very same place the Caesars were. In Rome, the capital. The Vatican is a city right inside of Rome. There are numerous, and I mean NUMEROUS official documents I have read by the Roman Catholic Church that refer to themselves as the "Roman Catholic Church".

If the Catholic Church is now denying that the name "Roman" is associated with their official name, it is only because they are trying to face-save themselves--"patchup" work, from being understood as that Little Horn power that grew out of the Roman 4th Beast.

The biblical kingdom came out of the Roman Empire, but the Empire itself is not the kingdom Daniel speaks about, this is clearly seen at the return of Christ, as He smashes the Gold, Silver, Bronze, and iron mixed with clay "AT THE SAME TIME!" these kingdoms are religious kingdoms, just as the fith kingdom is the kingdom God sets up, the one Jesus will rule and reign. Its both a spiritual kingdom that will be made up of real people by what they believe

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The biblical kingdom came out of the Roman Empire, but the Empire itself is not the kingdom Daniel speaks about, this is clearly seen at the return of Christ, as He smashes the Gold, Silver, Bronze, and iron mixed with clay "AT THE SAME TIME!" these kingdoms are religious kingdoms, just as the fith kingdom is the kingdom God sets up, the one Jesus will rule and reign. Its both a spiritual kingdom that will be made up of real people by what they believe

Those just happen to be mentioned in Revelation 18:12.
A lot of us view it as the Temple in Jerusalem in ad70, but, everyone has a view on it of course

Zeph 1:18 Moreover their silver, moreover their gold, not shall be able to rescue them in day of wrath of Yahweh, and in fire of jealously of Him shall be devoured all of the land.

James 5:3 The gold of ye and the silver is cankered; and the rust/venom of them into a witness to ye, and shall be eating the fleshes of ye as fire. Ye hoard in last days.
&#12288;
Revelation 18:12 "merchandise of gold and silver, precious stones and pearls, fine linen and purple, silk and scarlet, every kind of citron wood, every kind of object of ivory, every kind of object of most precious wood, bronze, iron, and marble;

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

..............The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.............
&#12288;
.......The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins............

 

[Johnny Todd]

Those just happen to be mentioned in Revelation 18:12. A lot of us view it as the Temple in Jerusalem in ad70, but, everyone has a view on of course

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Zeph 1:18 Moreover their silver, moreover their gold, not shall be able to rescue them in day of wrath of Yahweh, and in fire of jealously of Him shall be devoured all of the land.

James 5:3 The gold of ye and the silver is cankered; and the rust/venom of them into a witness to ye, and shall be eating the fleshes of ye as fire. Ye hoard in last days.
&#12288;
Revelation 18:12 "merchandise of gold and silver, precious stones and pearls, fine linen and purple, silk and scarlet, every kind of citron wood, every kind of object of ivory, every kind of object of most precious wood, bronze, iron, and marble;

you can believe what ever you want, but the fact remains revelations is a picture of the end of times and the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, It is impossible to separate the fall of Babylon from the coming of the Lord, especially when your trying to seperate it by thousands of years. the only expanse of time mentioned is the thousand years satan is bound and Christ rules and reigns. although I can clearly see why it was important to put this event back in time, nobody wants to be apart of a religion that is called the great harlot, but the good news is that Jesus is calling for His people to come out of her! so there is still time

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

you can believe what ever you want, but the fact remains revelations is a picture of the end of times and the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, It is impossible to separate the fall of Babylon from the coming of the Lord, especially when your trying to seperate it by thousands of years. the only expanse of time mentioned is the thousand years satan is bound and Christ rules and reigns. although I can clearly see why it was important to put this event back in time, nobody wants to be apart of a religion that is called the great harlot, but the good news is that Jesus is calling for His people to come out of her! so there is still time

I agree!
And one reason I have never understood the Amill doctrine in some of Christianity

edit to add: If I am not mistaken, that is also the view of the RCC. I could be wrong tho.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7522417/#post56853378
Amillennialism blown away by Revelation 20

 

[ivebeenshown]

Hopefully, we can agree that the term Catholic Church used to mean something different (where Jesus is or same faith as apostles) than how it is used today (in communion with the Pope).

Again, the full context in which the word Catholic was used early on in the Church denotes more than what you ascribe to the word. As I see it, 'Catholic' means first and foremost that Jesus started it. Now, I see plenty of churches which do not even claim to be able to trace their ordination throughout history to Christ, and only two that do. If a church was not ordained by Christ, why would I want to have any part of it?

 

[MKJ]

They are most certainly Roman. They are in the very same place the Caesars were. In Rome, the capital. The Vatican is a city right inside of Rome. There are numerous, and I mean NUMEROUS official documents I have read by the Roman Catholic Church that refer to themselves as the "Roman Catholic Church".

If the Catholic Church is now denying that the name "Roman" is associated with their official name, it is only because they are trying to face-save themselves--"patchup" work, from being understood as that Little Horn power that grew out of the Roman 4th Beast.

I don't think the Catholic Church is doing that. It's just an amateur apologist thing. In some cases it's probably a response to non-Catholics understanding the term in an incorrect and even dishonest way.

 

[ivebeenshown]

I don't think the Catholic Church is doing that. It's just an amateur apologist thing.

Pretty much. Typically, the term 'Roman Catholic Church' is not officially used, and it was first used by Protestants. Maybe it has been used in official documents, but technically, I am not a Roman Catholic, I'm a Kansan Catholic.

 

[Standing Up]

First Vatican Council:

... The purpose of the council was, besides the condemnation of contemporary errors, to define the catholic doctrine concerning the church of Christ. ...



Session 2: 13

1. I acknowledge the

holy,

• catholic,
• apostolic and
• Roman

church, the mother and mistress of all the churches [1] .
Decrees of the First Vatican Council

 

[ivebeenshown]

Well, there we go! Thank you for being up front!

 

[Johnny Todd]

Again, the full context in which the word Catholic was used early on in the Church denotes more than what you ascribe to the word. As I see it, 'Catholic' means first and foremost that Jesus started it. Now, I see plenty of churches which do not even claim to be able to trace their ordination throughout history to Christ, and only two that do. If a church was not ordained by Christ, why would I want to have any part of it?

So Its discovered, that people who hear the gospel and believe, who have no church to go to but still believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that He died for their sins, they accept the sacrifice Christ made for them and begin to allow the Holy Spirit to lead them into all truth, They have no church linage or attachement, simply the power of the gospel changed their lives.............They are the church! Just as much as true followers of Jesus who got caught up in churches in error regardless of how long they have been in operation...........actually today a church with no history is a safer bet then ones that have been shown to murder other folks for the only reason they don't believe the same way, to remain in a church that has done such atrocities hoping somehow this same errant body will straighten its path, and change is a much more dangerous choice.........for the simple fact that humanity never learns from its mistakes, this can be witnessed throughout history since time began

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So Its discovered, that people who hear the gospel and believe, who have no church to go to but still believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that He died for their sins, they accept the sacrifice Christ made for them and begin to allow the Holy Spirit to lead them into all truth, They have no church linage or attachement, simply the power of the gospel changed their lives.............They are the church! Just as much as true followers of Jesus who got caught up in churches in error regardless of how long they have been in operation...........actually today a church with no history is a safer bet then ones that have been shown to murder other folks for the only reason they don't believe the same way, to remain in a church that has done such atrocities hoping somehow this same errant body will straighten its path, and change is a much more dangerous choice.........for the simple fact that humanity never learns from its mistakes, this can be witnessed throughout history since time began

Interesting post
Could I get you to respond and vote on my poll thread here


http://www.christianforums.com/t7495160/#post55593096
Tyndale and defying the Pope

Matt 23:34 "Because of this behold! I am commissioning toward ye Prophets and Wise-ones and Scribes.
Out of them ye shall be killing and ye shall be crucifying. And out of them ye shall be scourging in the synagogues of ye and ye shall be persecuting/persuing from city into city"

Matt 24:9 then they shall be delivering ye up into tribulation, and they shall be killing ye, and ye shall be being hated by all of the nations becauseof the Name of Me

John 16:2 Putting out of the synagogues they shall be doing ye.
But is coming an hour that every the one killing ye should be supposing a divine service to be offering to the God
[Matthew 23:34/24:9]

 

[steve_bakr]

So Its discovered, that people who hear the gospel and believe, who have no church to go to but still believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that He died for their sins, they accept the sacrifice Christ made for them and begin to allow the Holy Spirit to lead them into all truth, They have no church linage or attachement, simply the power of the gospel changed their lives.............They are the church! Just as much as true followers of Jesus who got caught up in churches in error regardless of how long they have been in operation...........actually today a church with no history is a safer bet then ones that have been shown to murder other folks for the only reason they don't believe the same way, to remain in a church that has done such atrocities hoping somehow this same errant body will straighten its path, and change is a much more dangerous choice.........for the simple fact that humanity never learns from its mistakes, this can be witnessed throughout history since time began

Both Catholic and Protestant Churches have had their dark periods due to the foibles of men, but that's not a reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Peace of the Lord be with you.
"The heavens declare the glory of the Lord" (Psalms 19:2a)

 

[Johnny Todd]

Interesting post
Could I get you to respond and vote on my poll thread here


http://www.christianforums.com/t7495160/#post55593096
Tyndale and defying the Pope

Matt 23:34 "Because of this behold! I am commissioning toward ye Prophets and Wise-ones and Scribes.
Out of them ye shall be killing and ye shall be crucifying. And out of them ye shall be scourging in the synagogues of ye and ye shall be persecuting/persuing from city into city"

Matt 24:9 then they shall be delivering ye up into tribulation, and they shall be killing ye, and ye shall be being hated by all of the nations becauseof the Name of Me

John 16:2 Putting out of the synagogues they shall be doing ye.
But is coming an hour that every the one killing ye should be supposing a divine service to be offering to the God
[Matthew 23:34/24:9]

I couldn't find a pole to vote on at this site, but I will say the reformers were on a good path, but failed to see how much error actually infiltrated the church, and more changes needed to be implimented. And now its almost making a full circle, and the daughters are coming back to the Mother.

 

[Johnny Todd]

I think we are all well aware of how the SDAs view the RCC in bible prophecy.
However, we can always discuss Daniel on another thread

http://www.christianforums.com/t7492154/
The Characteristics of the "Little Horn" in Daniel 7

While I do not endorse the SDA I can only say their about the only ones that still hold onto what the first reformers ALL THOUGHT ABOUT THE RCC, and all the more as they were being killed for their faith, She can't help but fulfil her destiny for which She has been called much like Judas couldn't escape the prophetic words attributed to his life, So She will do and achieve all that the bible has said of her.

 

[steve_bakr]

While I do not endorse the SDA I can only say their about the only ones that still hold onto what the first reformers ALL THOUGHT ABOUT THE RCC, and all the more as they were being killed for their faith, She can't help but fulfil her destiny for which She has been called much like Judas couldn't escape the prophetic words attributed to his life, So She will do and achieve all that the bible has said of her.

That's backward, LLOJ!

Peace of the Lord be with you.
"The heavens declare the glory of the Lord" (Psalms 19:2a)

 

[ivebeenshown]

So Its discovered, that people who hear the gospel and believe, who have no church to go to but still believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that He died for their sins, they accept the sacrifice Christ made for them and begin to allow the Holy Spirit to lead them into all truth, They have no church linage or attachement, simply the power of the gospel changed their lives.............They are the church! Just as much as true followers of Jesus who got caught up in churches in error regardless of how long they have been in operation...........actually today a church with no history is a safer bet then ones that have been shown to murder other folks for the only reason they don't believe the same way, to remain in a church that has done such atrocities hoping somehow this same errant body will straighten its path, and change is a much more dangerous choice.........for the simple fact that humanity never learns from its mistakes, this can be witnessed throughout history since time began

God appointed government within the Church (1 Cor 12:28.) Paul exhorts us to submit to our leaders (Heb 13:17) and says that those who willfully engage in sedition -- rebellion against established government -- will not inherit the kingdom of God (Gal 5:19-21.) That doesn't mean we forsake the commands of Christ (love one another) to obey harmful commands of any church official (such as hanging a person accused of witchcraft, like what happened at Salem), but rather that we keep the unity of the Church by flocking to the God-ordained pastors.

 

[Johnny Todd]

Both Catholic and Protestant Churches have had their dark periods due to the foibles of men, but that's not a reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Peace of the Lord be with you.
"The heavens declare the glory of the Lord" (Psalms 19:2a)

Ha ha ha who's throwing Christ out!......Its your belief that errant branches of the vine should be kept alive till the end, but the scripture says God will prune the bad branches and throw them in the fire. Nobodies dumping faith in Jesus Christ, They're just seeing that those who were leading them, invoking murder and killing in the name of Jesus, to be in complete blatant errror, and realizing this blatant error, they are leaving those who led them in error

 

[Johnny Todd]

God appointed government within the Church (1 Cor 12:28.) Paul exhorts us to submit to our leaders (Heb 13:17) and says that those who willfully engage in sedition -- rebellion against established government -- will not inherit the kingdom of God (Gal 5:19-21.) That doesn't mean we forsake the commands of Christ (love one another) to obey harmful commands of any church official (such as hanging a person accused of witchcraft, like what happened at Salem), but rather that we keep the unity of the Church by flocking to the God-ordained pastors.

It sure would be nice if your sect kept the God given appointments of authority in the body of Christ instead of inventing your own unbiblical hierarchy

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That's backward, LLOJ!

Peace of the Lord be with you.
"The heavens declare the glory of the Lord" (Psalms 19:2a)

Eh?

NKJV) Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was to them, "Precept upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little,"
That they might go and fall backward, and be broken And snared and caught.

http://www.christianforums.com/t6982465-107/#post44368491
Is Sunday worship the mark of the beast?