Why is it called "ROMAN" Catholic Church

[Johnny Todd]

this came up on another thread, It didn't get a chance to be answered, can any Catholics tell me why its called "Roman" universal church?

 

[Thekla]

From the EO perspective, it refers to the location of the 'archdiocese'.

 

[Jpark]

I'm not Catholic but let's look at the Holy Roman Empire. It was neither so why was it called that? Absolute power. As you know, holiness can be exploited. Roman signifies imperialism.

That's just my 2 cents though. I don't really have a problem with it.

 

[gonesimera]

It isn't called Roman,

The official name is Catholic Church, or Orthodox Church, and also known as the Latin Rite church, Catholic church in ie: UK, Rome, US etc..

The Orthodox and Catholic churches are both Catholic and Orthodox, and both bear these titles.

It has never been called the Roman Catholic Church, that is something that modern day protestants added to try and link it with the the Roman paganism.

Plus the Vatican is no longer in Rome, it is in the Vatican city, an independent state that has its own passports.

 

[Dylan Michael]

It is the Catholic Church.
The Roman Catholic Church is the part of the Catholic church that uses the Roman Rite.
Just as the Maronite Catholic church uses the Maronite Rite.

 

[visionary]

The Roman Catholic Church is part of the Christian Church ruled by the Bishop of Rome (the Pope). In the early Church the papacy exercised authority over all Christians.

Even the church website calls themselves Roman Catholic Church. Roman Catholic Church

 

[gonesimera]

The Roman Catholic Church is part of the Christian Church ruled by the Bishop of Rome (the Pope). In the early Church the papacy exercised authority over all Christians.

Even the church website calls themselves Roman Catholic Church. /wspartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/REcatholic.htm]Roman Catholic Church

That is not the catholic churches web site.

it is vatican va

and there is no Roman Rite, it is the Latin Rite.

 

[visionary]

That is not the catholic churches web site.

it is vatican va

and there is no Roman Rite, it is the Latin Rite.

Vatican: the Holy See

Official Vatican web site. Several languages supported. News services, Church documents, information on the Popes and departments of the Roman Curia.

 

[Fotina]

In the early Church the papacy exercised authority over all Christians.

This is false. The historical fact of the practice of the early church is the papacy had authority only in its own administrative jurisdiction in Rome in the West. The other ancient patriarchates in the East of Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem, known today as the Eastern Orthodox Church, each ruled their own jurisdictions not subject to any papal authority. They were united in faith and independent in administrative jurisdiction. Administrative or doctrinal matters among them were settled by conciliation in council as told in the bible of the first council in Jerusalem presided by Saint James. The Eastern Orthodox continue this same apostolic practice to the present day.

 

[visionary]

This is false. The historical fact of the practice of the early church is the papacy had authority only in its own administrative jurisdiction in Rome in the West. The other ancient patriarchates in the East of Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem, known today as the Eastern Orthodox Church, each ruled their own jurisdictions not subject to any papal authority. Administrative or doctrinal matters among them were settled by conciliation in council as told in the bible of the first council in Jerusalem presided by Saint James. The Eastern Orthodox continue this same apostolic practice to the present day.

If the church had no authority over those, they classed them as heretics and not christians back then.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Because the Western Patriarch (or Pope) is the Bishop of Rome.

In antiquity there used to be the Pentarchy, there were five major and significant centers of Christianity: Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople and Rome. Each was significant for various reasons.

Jerusalem was "Mother of all the churches" whose Patriarch was successor of the Seat of St. James.

Antioch was the second major place of apostolic activity, where we were first called "Christians" and the Patriarch was successor of Sts. Peter and Paul.

Alexandria was where the Catechetical School was founded, and was a significant hub of learning in the Greco-Roman world, and that also ended up including Christian learning. The Patriarch was successor of St. Mark the Evangelist.

Rome was capital of the Roman Empire, as such the bishop there was, in a sense, in the thick of what was going on in the world. The Patriarch was successor of St. Peter.

Byzantium became Constantinople and thus New Rome, the Patriarch of Constantinople was successor of St. Andrew.

Of these five Rome held a certain significant place, since much of the theological controversies that the Church faced arose in the East, the Bishop of Rome was often sought for his counsel on matters. Perhaps due to being able to be more impartial since Rome was of significant distance from the centers of these disputes.

After the collapse of the Western Empire significant historical events happened that both shaped the Church as well as Western Europe in general.

Firstly: Without a centralized civil authority the Bishop of Rome was often sought as an island of stability, and as Germanic kings and warlords fought one another the Church in Rome remained rather fixed and he was often sought for appeal.

Secondly: The liturgies of the West slowly became more standardized, being brought into conformity with the Liturgical Rite used in Rome (the Latin Rite). Part of this process ended up involving a change in the language of the Nicene Creed. A single word was added in the Liturgical Rite used among the Frankish people of Gaul, "Filioque". Originally the Bishop of Rome opposed this change, but over time it was adopted into the Roman Liturgy and disseminated as part of the liturgical standardization throughout Western Europe.

Thirdly: Muslim conquests of Byzantine lands not only meant less power for the Roman Emperor in Constantinople, but also meant that the Patriarchs were increasingly more separated. By the 11th century the only Patriarch still in Byzantine/Roman territory was the Patriarch of Constantinople.

Fourthly: Even prior to the Fall of Rome and collapse of the Western Empire Latin had begun to replace Greek as the dominant language. This caused linguistic barriers between East and West, between Greek theologians and Latin theologians. Theological and Liturgical differences which had been present in some form for some time became more significant. In effect this compounded other factors which led to a growing rift within the Church.

Fifthly: In the beginning of the 9th century the Bishop of Rome crowned Charlemagne the Holy Roman Emperor. This was no small matter as the Byzantine Emperor still claimed Western Europe as part of his domain. This, in a sense, meant that there were two Roman emperors, one Byzantine and one Frankish. This did not, by any means, help relations between the East and the West.

Sixthly: Originally the use of the word "pope" (meaning "papa") was a term of endearment applied to a bishop by the people. The Bishop of Rome wasn't the first or only to have this term applied, even to this day the Patriarch of Alexandria is referred to as "Pope" (c.f. Pope Shenouda III). In the 5th century Pope Leo I seems to have been the first to claim it as an exclusive title for the Roman Patriarch.

Seventhly: All of these factors ended up erupting in the middle of the 11th century. For one, the Pope argued that he had a primacy of jurisdiction (not just of honor as the East had traditionally taught), and insisted the authority to add the Filioque clause into the Creed apart from the need of an Ecumenical Council. The Patriarch of Constantinople rejected these claims. In 1054 two representatives of the Pope went to Constantinople and laid a Bull of Excommunication--the Patriarch of Rome had excommunicated the Patriarch of Constantinople. Outraged, the Patriarch of Constantinople returned the favor and excommunicated the Patriarch of Rome.

The Great Schism had just happened.

Both sides claim to be right. Both sides claim to be the True Church founded by Christ and that the other has broken away. Both claim to be the One, Holy, Apostolic and Catholic Church.

What this, of course, meant in the West was that there was now only one Patriarch, the Pope in Rome.

In usual Roman Catholic parlance "Roman" simply refers to the Liturgical Rite, the Roman or Latin Rite. Eastern or Byzantine Catholics are those in communion with Rome who use the Byzantine Rite (and so on and so forth).

Though, arguably, among most Protestants and Orthodox the term "Roman" in the Roman Catholic Church refers also to the fact that it is constituted in part by being in ecclesiastical union with the Roman See.

In any event "Roman" has to do entirely with geography--the city of Rome. It has nothing to do with Constantine or the Roman Empire.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[RisingSpirit]

.

Plus the Vatican is no longer in Rome, it is in the Vatican city, an independent state that has its own passports.

How big is Vatican city and why isn't it a country instead of a state?

 

[visionary]

How big is Vatican city and why isn't it a country instead of a state?

Vatican City - 0.2 square miles - The world's smallest state, the Vatican has a population of 770, none of whom are permanent residents. The tiny country which surrounds St. Peter's Basilica is the spiritual center for the world's Roman Catholics (over 1 billion strong). Also known as the Holy See, Vatican City is surrounded by Rome, Italy.

 

[ViaCrucis]

How big is Vatican city and why isn't it a country instead of a state?

It is a country. It's not very big, it's the smallest nation in the world with a population in the few hundreds (most of whom are clergy or the Swiss Guard). It's the second smallest population next only to Pitcairn Islands.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Fotina]

If the church had no authority over those, they classed them as heretics and not christians back then.

No, all the patriarchates together with Rome were in full communion in faith and practice for the first one thousand years of the life of the Church, but independent in administrative jurisdiction just as practiced in the Eastern Orthodox Church today. Papal authority ruled in the West only. It's a fact. Crypto Lutheran's post related the history quite accurately.

 

[Yarddog]

How Did the Catholic Church Get Her Name?

How Did the Catholic Church Get Her Name?

by Kenneth D. Whitehead
The Creed which we recite on Sundays and holy days speaks of one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. As everybody knows, however, the Church referred to in this Creed is more commonly called just the Catholic Church. It is not, by the way, properly called the Roman Catholic Church, but simply the Catholic Church.
The term Roman Catholic is not used by the Church herself; it is a relatively modern term, and one, moreover, that is confined largely to the English language. The English-speaking bishops at the First Vatican Council in 1870, in fact, conducted a vigorous and successful campaign to insure that the term Roman Catholic was nowhere included in any of the Council's official documents about the Church herself, and the term was not included.
Similarly, nowhere in the 16 documents of the Second Vatican Council will you find the term Roman Catholic. Pope Paul VI signed all the documents of the Second Vatican Council as "I, Paul. Bishop of the Catholic Church." Simply that -- Catholic Church. There are references to the Roman curia, the Roman missal, the Roman rite, etc., but when the adjective Roman is applied to the Church herself, it refers to the Diocese of Rome!
Cardinals, for example, are called cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, but that designation means that when they are named to be cardinals they have thereby become honorary clergy of the Holy Father's home diocese, the Diocese of Rome. Each cardinal is given a titular church in Rome, and when the cardinals participate in the election of a new pope. they are participating in a process that in ancient times was carried out by the clergy of the Diocese of Rome.
Although the Diocese of Rome is central to the Catholic Church, this does not mean that the Roman rite, or, as is sometimes said, the Latin rite, is co-terminus with the Church as a whole; that would mean neglecting the Byzantine, Chaldean, Maronite or other Oriental rites which are all very much part of the Catholic Church today, as in the past.
In our day, much greater emphasis has been given to these "non-Roman" rites of the Catholic Church. The Second Vatican Council devoted a special document, Orientalium Ecclesiarum (Decree on Eastern Catholic Churches), to the Eastern rites which belong to the Catholic Church, and the new Catechism of the Catholic Church similarly gives considerable attention to the distinctive traditions and spirituality of these Eastern rites.
So the proper name for the universal Church is not the Roman Catholic Church. Far from it. That term caught on mostly in English-speaking countries; it was promoted mostly by Anglicans, supporters of the "branch theory" of the Church, namely, that the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church of the creed was supposed to consist of three major branches, the Anglican, the Orthodox and the so-called Roman Catholic. It was to avoid that kind of interpretation that the English-speaking bishops at Vatican I succeeded in warning the Church away from ever using the term officially herself: It too easily could be misunderstood.........

 

[Thekla]

The term "katholiki" in the Creed is used as an adjective, not as a noun (title).

 

[ViaCrucis]

How Did the Catholic Church Get Her Name?

How Did the Catholic Church Get Her Name?

by Kenneth D. Whitehead
The Creed which we recite on Sundays and holy days speaks of one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. As everybody knows, however, the Church referred to in this Creed is more commonly called just the Catholic Church. It is not, by the way, properly called the Roman Catholic Church, but simply the Catholic Church.
The term Roman Catholic is not used by the Church herself; it is a relatively modern term, and one, moreover, that is confined largely to the English language. The English-speaking bishops at the First Vatican Council in 1870, in fact, conducted a vigorous and successful campaign to insure that the term Roman Catholic was nowhere included in any of the Council's official documents about the Church herself, and the term was not included.
Similarly, nowhere in the 16 documents of the Second Vatican Council will you find the term Roman Catholic. Pope Paul VI signed all the documents of the Second Vatican Council as "I, Paul. Bishop of the Catholic Church." Simply that -- Catholic Church. There are references to the Roman curia, the Roman missal, the Roman rite, etc., but when the adjective Roman is applied to the Church herself, it refers to the Diocese of Rome!
Cardinals, for example, are called cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, but that designation means that when they are named to be cardinals they have thereby become honorary clergy of the Holy Father's home diocese, the Diocese of Rome. Each cardinal is given a titular church in Rome, and when the cardinals participate in the election of a new pope. they are participating in a process that in ancient times was carried out by the clergy of the Diocese of Rome.
Although the Diocese of Rome is central to the Catholic Church, this does not mean that the Roman rite, or, as is sometimes said, the Latin rite, is co-terminus with the Church as a whole; that would mean neglecting the Byzantine, Chaldean, Maronite or other Oriental rites which are all very much part of the Catholic Church today, as in the past.
In our day, much greater emphasis has been given to these "non-Roman" rites of the Catholic Church. The Second Vatican Council devoted a special document, Orientalium Ecclesiarum (Decree on Eastern Catholic Churches), to the Eastern rites which belong to the Catholic Church, and the new Catechism of the Catholic Church similarly gives considerable attention to the distinctive traditions and spirituality of these Eastern rites.
So the proper name for the universal Church is not the Roman Catholic Church. Far from it. That term caught on mostly in English-speaking countries; it was promoted mostly by Anglicans, supporters of the "branch theory" of the Church, namely, that the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church of the creed was supposed to consist of three major branches, the Anglican, the Orthodox and the so-called Roman Catholic. It was to avoid that kind of interpretation that the English-speaking bishops at Vatican I succeeded in warning the Church away from ever using the term officially herself: It too easily could be misunderstood.........

Though certainly it's not hard to understand why both Protestants and Orthodox cannot in good conscience regard that ecclesiastical entity in communion with the Pope as the Catholic Church.

As a Protestant I am regularly confessing both the Nicene and Apostles' Creed wherein it is confessed belief in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. As a baptized Christian, partaker of the Lord's Supper, and sharer in the Communion of Saints I wholly consider myself a member of Christ's One Body which is properly called one, properly called holy, properly called catholic and properly called apostolic. Since by virtue of my Baptism, and of the fellowship of the Lord's Table I regard myself as a full member of the one Holy and Catholic Church.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Yarddog]

Though certainly it's not hard to understand why both Protestants and Orthodox cannot in good conscience regard that ecclesiastical entity in communion with the Pope as the Catholic Church.

As a Protestant I am regularly confessing both the Nicene and Apostles' Creed wherein it is confessed belief in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. As a baptized Christian, partaker of the Lord's Supper, and sharer in the Communion of Saints I wholly consider myself a member of Christ's One Body which is properly called one, properly called holy, properly called catholic and properly called apostolic. Since by virtue of my Baptism, and of the fellowship of the Lord's Table I regard myself as a full member of the one Holy and Catholic Church.

-CryptoLutheran

The Catholic Church would not disagree that you are a full member of the One holy and Catholic Church. It says that we have communion, though not perfect, it is still communion with each other.

 

[RisingSpirit]

Vatican City - 0.2 square miles - The world's smallest state, the Vatican has a population of 770, none of whom are permanent residents. The tiny country which surrounds St. Peter's Basilica is the spiritual center for the world's Roman Catholics (over 1 billion strong). Also known as the Holy See, Vatican City is surrounded by Rome, Italy.

What keeps another group from building another state in Italy?