Why is Hell permanent?

[dollarsbill]

He made us, He could obviously do whatever He wishes, i dont think anyone would need a bible verse to tell us that., fortunate for us, He isnt in the business of torturing....therefore, He warns us of this, cause as in rest of scripture, that says the exact same thing....thats what He is going to do.

And you continue to ignore Scripture.

Matthew 13:49-50 (NASB)
49 "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, 50 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[dollarsbill]

psalms30 1 I will extol you, O Lord, for you have drawn me up
and have not let my foes rejoice over me.
2 O Lord my God, I cried to you for help,
and you have healed me.
3 O Lord, you have brought up my soul from Sheol;
you restored me to life from among those who go down to the pit.[a]
4 Sing praises to the Lord, O you his saints,
and give thanks to his holy name.[b]
5For his anger is but for a moment,
and his favor is for a lifetime.[c]
Weeping may tarry for the night,
but joy comes with the morning.


hmmmm, appears to me like another contradiction to eternal hell/damnation...how could the 'punishment' be without end, (certainly a long time), and yet in psalms it states "His anger is but for a moment"?

No contradiction. You just need to flip over to the NT.

Luke 16:22-28 (NASB)
22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' 25 "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 ~'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.' 27 "And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house— 28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

 

[dollarsbill]

funny you should bring paul up, let me ask you this....if paul was commissioned by God to preach the gospel to all nations, why did paul not preach of hell? youd think such an important subject would have been preached to all the nations, eh?

how much did he preach about hell?

Were all the writers of the NT required to cover EVERY subject? I think not. The rest of the NT covers it in quite detail.

 

[dollarsbill]

, fortunate for us, He isnt in the business of torturing....

He drowns them. He burns them alive, but He doesn't torture? Hmm

 

[Sophrosyne]

uhhhhh....no, wrong answer....the reason is, is that in the early church, early christians, the concept of an eternal hell was not even a thought., the early church, and for hundreds of years thereafter, mainly believed in universalism, and therefore the idea of an eternal hellfire was not preached.

are you serious about this? written to the churches, to be disseminated to the people, you left that part out...or were they to keep it in a secret vault somewhere, where only a few priveleged were able to read? come on.....and last i knew, as is the case today, and would assume was the case then, all who claimed to be christians and were 'of the church' as you put it, that makes them all 100% saved? so everyone who professes to be a christian is certainly going to heaven? ok and he/she has nothing more to learn, even if they are truly saved, what about the rest of humanity? are they not also are bretheren? those of the church of then, and now, are only supposed to preach to believers? perhaps you could elaborate a bit more on what you were trying to say, cause the more i try to rationalize what you said, the more im at a loss of words.

Arguments from silence doesn't do any justice as there is no proof Paul rejected hell, so insisting that the early church was right if some of it rejects what Jesus taught about hell is meaningless....
As for your two replies to the same post I will ignore the second one because it appears to be your personal rant with no solid argument to address.

 

[Sophrosyne]

He drowns them. He burns them alive, but He doesn't torture? Hmm

You forget 400 years under slavedrivers in Egypt
40+ years unto death wandering the desert eating lots of manna till you are sick of it
One could suggest allowing torment upon people "he chose" as his would make one with power to stop it akin to a tormenter on a level.

 

[dollarsbill]

You forget 400 years under slavedrivers in Egypt
40+ years unto death wandering the desert eating lots of manna till you are sick of it
One could suggest allowing torment upon people "he chose" as his would make one with power to stop it akin to a tormenter on a level.

Indeed. And lest we should forget the fiery serpents ...

Numbers 21:6 (NASB)
6 The LORD sent fiery serpents among the people and they bit the people, so that many people of Israel died.

 

[dollarsbill]

Another GLARING hole in Annihilationism is that Hitler would receive the exact same punishment as the kindest, most loving unbeliever who ever lived. And yet they say that eternal Hell is unfair and sadistic.

 

[Sadalmelik]

Arguments from silence doesn't do any justice as there is no proof Paul rejected hell, so insisting that the early church was right if some of it rejects what Jesus taught about hell is meaningless....
As for your two replies to the same post I will ignore the second one because it appears to be your personal rant with no solid argument to address.

actually, just to correct your incorrect knowledge of history, it wasnt just some of the churches, as you put it, it was most of them, and actually they didnt reject anything Jesus taught, again your misinformed, cause Jesus didnt teach the current concept of hell either...so your incorrect on both counts.

 

[Sadalmelik]

You forget 400 years under slavedrivers in Egypt
40+ years unto death wandering the desert eating lots of manna till you are sick of it
One could suggest allowing torment upon people "he chose" as his would make one with power to stop it akin to a tormenter on a level.

like i said, for a purpose, you just cant seem to grasp the idea that something done for a purpose is different from that which serves no purpose...ie eternal hellfire....sorry if you cant seem to grasp that difference, there is nothing more i can say about it to make it any clearer.

and further, if you cant make the distinction between something that punishment, or torturous for a limited period to time, contrasted to something like eternal hellfire/damnation, i think it best that you do some research on what eternal and neverending mean, cause to compare a temporary suffering to one that never ends, is the about as absurd an analogy as ive ever heard.

 

[Sadalmelik]

Arguments from silence doesn't do any justice as there is no proof Paul rejected hell, so insisting that the early church was right if some of it rejects what Jesus taught about hell is meaningless....
As for your two replies to the same post I will ignore the second one because it appears to be your personal rant with no solid argument to address.

sorry, ignoring and dismissing it isnt any valid arguement either, you have no answer for it, because it is illogical, makes no sense, and doesnt support your misguided views. that is why you dismiss it. no other reason.
one of the most important person of chrisitanity, and earliest, and influential, and no mention of what the salvation was for, to deliver us from hell. gothca, keep grasping.

 

[Soulgazer]

A question I have been asking myself lately...

Why is damnation in hell permanent? Why not another chance after a certain duration of punishment?

Dear OP. Some people believe that it is, some believe that it is not. The important thing to remember is that believing does not make it so; We go by scripture, which at the most practical level records the belief of the person who wrote it.

If we examine the societies of the authors of scriptures, we can see that they were exceedingly unfair and violent. A final torturous destruction of ones enemies was devoutly wished for. This does not make it so. God may have other plans.

 

[Sadalmelik]

If much of the church was falling away from what Paul termed “my gospel” during his own lifetime, imagine how far the modern church may be from Paul’s teachings which he honestly believed was the only true gospel to be preached. Paul told Timothy to “hold fast the form of sound words” heard from him from which many were turning away. The church plunged into the Dark Ages because it turned from Paul’s gospel. Being led by the Holy Spirit was replaced with thousands of traditions of men and doctrines of demons. Those traditions and teachings have filled the earth. The natural course of human kind seems to gravitate towards religion instead of an intimate relationship with God. (tentmaker.org)

 

[Sadalmelik]

No contradiction. You just need to flip over to the NT.

Luke 16:22-28 (NASB)
22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' 25 "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 ~'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.' 27 "And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house— 28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

God is unchanging, it says so throughout scripture, so there wouldnt be any need to flip over to anything....if there is a discrepency in any part of Gods word, then there is something wrong., you cant just ignore it, and go looking elsewhere to support your belief.

 

[dollarsbill]

If a person is cast away from God, who is the source of life, they can't get eternal life from Him. This is why cast away harmonizes with perish and annihilation.

How do you justify annihilation saying that my loving, ultra kind, unbelieving Granny who spent her life helping others would receive the exact same punishment as Hitler, Stalin, etc, murderers of MILLIONS? What's wrong with that picture?

 

[TheQuietRiot]

How about a God who drowned everyone on Earth but 8?

1 Peter 3:20 (NASB)
20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

Sciene has shown there was no great flood that drowned the Earth and that humanity is most certainly not decended from 8 individuals that survived it.

It matters not what you think, but what the bible equates as the truth. If you automatically judge God as cruel without having a real clue as to the working of Hell itself and torment and punishment it is easy to say nobody should suffer for anything. This exalts man as more important than God himself when the value of man depends entirely upon what God decides instead of what man decides for himself.

So you have nothing to say for those who never heard the gospel except that we don't know if they deserved to burn in hell. For having no knowledge of christ they burn. I cannot reconcile the ideas that a god who loves us all equally would allow those who never even had a chance to hear his message to suffer in the afterlife for crimes they did not even comprehende.

 

[Timothew]

How do you justify annihilation saying that my loving, ultra kind, unbelieving Granny who spent her life helping others would receive the exact same punishment as Hitler, Stalin, etc, murderers of MILLIONS? What's wrong with that picture?

And you are saying that Granny and Hitler receive the exact same punishment: an eternity being tortured in hell.

So your statement condemns your doctrine much more than it condemns mine.

 

[Timothew]

I trust God who looks at the heart. He is able to be just and fair to Granny and Hitler.
He won't torture Granny right next to Hitler for all eternity. What do you think? That Hitler will be burned alive for all eternity with really hot flames and Granny will be burned alive for all eternity with less hot flames? Granny thanks you for that consideration! Not.

 

[Timothew]

So you have nothing to say for those who never heard the gospel except that we don't know if they deserved to burn in hell. For having no knowledge of christ they burn. I cannot reconcile the ideas that a god who loves us all equally would allow those who never even had a chance to hear his message to suffer in the afterlife for crimes they did not even comprehende.

 

[he-man]

How do you justify annihilation saying that my loving, ultra kind, unbelieving Granny who spent her life helping others would receive the exact same punishment as Hitler, Stalin, etc, murderers of MILLIONS? What's wrong with that picture?

How old is your grandmother? You are telling me she has not had the chance to seek God?

Rom 11:14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them.

Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Hitler, Stalin, Truman, all dictators, already have paid the penalty of death and will not see the face of God.

Act 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.