Why is hell even necessary?

[createdtoworship]

I agree. I wish it were a proven fact.

at least it's historical. The rest has to be taken on faith.

 

[Iakobos]

I don't get the idea of hell neither. I mean whats the point of us being there for eternity? Do we learn anything from the experience or does it finish? It just seems like some crazy idea to make people fall in line and do as they are told without question. I mean sending someone to hell for not accepting their love is the same as being a wife-beater. "I love you but if you don't do as i say i'll hurt you." I don't think i'll ever understand how anybody could call such a relationship healthy.

I always hear that God won't force you to go to heaven coz that would be hell! Well Hell would be hell too! Why not just leave them in the grave!? It seems like it's supposed to be some final "HA thats what you get for refusing me!" Some sort of sick satisfaction. I mean if God really felt bad for every person in hell, he wouldn't leave them there for eternity. "Oh but he is upholding his justice" Well whats the point of upholding such justice if we're not even capable of comprehending it? I mean the bible says it was made for the devil and his demons who actually KNEW God. They physically saw the guy and served him and stuff. Yet we still cop the place even if we haven't! How is that fair? The more i think about it the more messed up it seems.

Some people seem to have peace with the idea, but i don't think i ever will. Also i doubt whether many others actually believe it, i know people say they do but i doubt it. If they did, who would dare sin? EVER? I mean it's like you have a gun pointed at you head your entire life, who would dare risk sinning if it could be the difference between eternal paradise and hell?! For pete sake not even all christianity believes it, it's all in the air.

 

[SkyWriting]

I don't get the idea of hell neither. I mean whats the point of us being there for eternity? Do we learn anything from the experience or does it finish? It just seems like some crazy idea to make people fall in line and do as they are told without question. I mean sending someone to hell for not accepting their love is the same as being a wife-beater. "I love you but if you don't do as i say i'll hurt you." I don't think i'll ever understand how anybody could call such a relationship healthy. I always hear that God won't force you to go to heaven coz that would be hell! Well Hell would be hell too! Why not just leave them in the grave!? It seems like it's supposed to be some final "HA thats what you get for refusing me!" Some sort of sick satisfaction. I mean if God really felt bad for every person in hell, he wouldn't leave them there for eternity. "Oh but he is upholding his justice" Well whats the point of upholding such justice if we're not even capable of comprehending it? I mean the bible says it was made for the devil and his demons who actually KNEW God. They physically saw the guy and served him and stuff. Yet we still cop the place even if we haven't! How is that fair? The more i think about it the more messed up it seems. Some people seem to have peace with the idea, but i don't think i ever will. Also i doubt whether many others actually believe it, i know people say they do but i doubt it. If they did, who would dare sin? EVER? I mean it's like you have a gun pointed at you head your entire life, who would dare risk sinning if it could be the difference between eternal paradise and hell?! For pete sake not even all christianity believes it, it's all in the air.

Well, yes. They would dare sin. Hell is separation from God. Sin is separation from God. Anybody who sins is in hell. The difference seems to be that we all get the blessings of a life even as sinners. It's a gift to every person, even us sinners. Yes, some have a short lived life. But even a few minutes is still a gift. Free and clear. Our responsibility is to acknowledge the gift. Those who "despise God" don't get the benefits that come from giving thanks instead. But they still got to live here a while, no charge.

 

[elman]

at least it's historical. The rest has to be taken on faith.

That is not the only thing in history that has to be taken on faith.

 

[Iakobos]

Well, yes. They would dare sin. Hell is separation from God. Sin is separation from God. Anybody who sins is in hell. The difference seems to be that we all get the blessings of a life even as sinners. It's a gift to every person, even us sinners. Yes, some have a short lived life. But even a few minutes is still a gift. Free and clear. Our responsibility is to acknowledge the gift. Those who "despise God" don't get the benefits that come from giving thanks instead. But they still got to live here a while, no charge.

Not everyone "despises God", people just living life best they know. Besides how can you despise something which you don't even know exists? Still get to live here no charge? What kind of God does that? Why can't he just give us life freely out of the goodness of his heart? If he really wanted loving followers than He wouldn't put guns to our head saying "Follow me or suffer!"

I mean if i serously believe all that i'll just live my life in fear. Whats the point when i don't even know if it's real till i'm dead? It would make more sense if people said to seekout the truth for yourself, rather then assuming that they have got it right. Faith doesn't know a thing, yet people pretend it does.

 

[createdtoworship]

That is not the only thing in history that has to be taken on faith.

like what?

 

[oi_antz]

I mean if i serously believe all that i'll just live my life in fear. Whats the point when i don't even know if it's real till i'm dead? It would make more sense if people said to seekout the truth for yourself, rather then assuming that they have got it right.

Spot on. I have never used the threat of hell when discussing why a person should trust Jesus. The only true salvation comes in the name of love. Can you consider that people live in hell on earth? It is a mindset of being discontent, especially among those who don't know Jesus. These people live in hell, but there is worse to come when these people depart their body and no longer have Christ's presence in their life. Christ is the life force here on earth, everything about earth is a demonstration of Christ. Read John chapter 1 where the Word created everything, that's what I am talking about. If you get through this life and you reject the offer God has made you, then you will not be graced with the presence of Christ in eternity. This is how Paul wrote it:

Romans 9:3
for my people, my Jewish brothers and sisters. I would be willing to be forever cursed—cut off from Christ!—if that would save them.

Then there is another representation of hell, which is the lake of fire. This is the destination for those of us whose names are not written in the book of life. It is written that at the end of time when Jesus returns to judge the wicked, they will be cast into that lake of fire and there they will burn. This is the fulfillment of the prophecy of John the baptist:

Matthew 3:12:
He is ready to separate the chaff from the wheat with his winnowing fork. Then he will clean up the threshing area, gathering the wheat into his barn but burning the chaff with never-ending fire.

Notice here that it is Jesus who does the sorting, not Fred Phelps or Joe Bloggs. We are warned about judging others, in fact the very words used are these:

Matthew 7:2
For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.

So really Iakobos, no-one can tell you that you deserve hell, all you can do is make your best effort to ensure that your name is written in the book of life, because no-one else except you can achieve that for you. Likewise, you cannot achieve anyone else's salvation, just as I can't achieve yours. The best I can do is work on my own salvation, putting my best effort into ensuring that Jesus will sort me as wheat rather than chaff.

The topic requires that you think for yourself. Take all the information you get access to and make your decision what you will believe. You are having negative thoughts about God, that is because you are missing some crucial information: that God is love. Without realizing this very simple fact, you are actually forming a concept of God that is wrong and you are going to get bitter toward God because of that. God doesn't want anyone to burn in hell, this is proven in scripture:

Matthew 25:41
Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels

The lake of fire is meant for fallen angels!

John 3:17
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Jesus is meant to produce wheat, not chaff! If you are not growing into wheat, it would pay to check who your teachers are.

Matthew 7:21
[ I Never Knew You ] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Be wary, not everyone claiming to belong to Christ actually performs the father's will.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

God is very patient with us while we work through the problems we face concerning our salvation.

Genesis 6:3
And the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.”

God will not wait forever for us to repent, one lifetime is enough in His mind. Three weeks was enough for me.

Be careful who you choose to trust won't you. It's a matter of grave concern, there's a form of evil in this world whose role is to kill you, only Jesus can save you from him and only you can take the required actions to protect yourself. A necessary part of life is death, but Jesus has conquered death that we may live forever in the presence of the Lord if we are prepared to live according to His will. Revelations 21 is a wonderful promise. You are at the crossroads Iakobos, be careful which way you turn and what you choose to do with your life. There is a way that seems right to a man but the end is death. Work hard to enter the narrow gate because wide is the road that leads to destruction and there are many who go that way.

Faith doesn't know a thing, yet people pretend it does.

No faith doesn't know, but the Holy Spirit does. He is God's gift to the world to teach us while we wait for Omega - Jesus' triumphant return. You have a lot to learn yet, just monitor your attitude you are behaving negatively and that is risky, you can get hurt by thinking negatively of God.

 

[Iakobos]

Spot on. I have never used the threat of hell when discussing why a person should trust Jesus. The only true salvation comes in the name of love. Can you consider that people live in hell on earth? It is a mindset of being discontent, especially among those who don't know Jesus. These people live in hell, but there is worse to come when these people depart their body and no longer have Christ's presence in their life. Christ is the life force here on earth, everything about earth is a demonstration of Christ. Read John chapter 1 where the Word created everything, that's what I am talking about. If you get through this life and you reject the offer God has made you, then you will not be graced with the presence of Christ in eternity. This is how Paul wrote it:



Then there is another representation of hell, which is the lake of fire. This is the destination for those of us whose names are not written in the book of life. It is written that at the end of time when Jesus returns to judge the wicked, they will be cast into that lake of fire and there they will burn. This is the fulfillment of the prophecy of John the baptist:

Notice here that it is Jesus who does the sorting, not Fred Phelps or Joe Bloggs. We are warned about judging others, in fact the very words used are these:



So really Iakobos, no-one can tell you that you deserve hell, all you can do is make your best effort to ensure that your name is written in the book of life, because no-one else except you can achieve that for you. Likewise, you cannot achieve anyone else's salvation, just as I can't achieve yours. The best I can do is work on my own salvation, putting my best effort into ensuring that Jesus will sort me as wheat rather than chaff.

The topic requires that you think for yourself. Take all the information you get access to and make your decision what you will believe. You are having negative thoughts about God, that is because you are missing some crucial information: that God is love. Without realizing this very simple fact, you are actually forming a concept of God that is wrong and you are going to get bitter toward God because of that. God doesn't want anyone to burn in hell, this is proven in scripture:



The lake of fire is meant for fallen angels!



Jesus is meant to produce wheat, not chaff! If you are not growing into wheat, it would pay to check who your teachers are.



Be wary, not everyone claiming to belong to Christ actually performs the father's will.



God is very patient with us while we work through the problems we face concerning our salvation.



God will not wait forever for us to repent, one lifetime is enough in His mind. Three weeks was enough for me.

Be careful who you choose to trust won't you. It's a matter of grave concern, there's a form of evil in this world whose role is to kill you, only Jesus can save you from him and only you can take the required actions to protect yourself. A necessary part of life is death, but Jesus has conquered death that we may live forever in the presence of the Lord if we are prepared to live according to His will. Revelations 21 is a wonderful promise. You are at the crossroads Iakobos, be careful which way you turn and what you choose to do with your life. There is a way that seems right to a man but the end is death. Work hard to enter the narrow gate because wide is the road that leads to destruction and there are many who go that way.


No faith doesn't know, but the Holy Spirit does. He is God's gift to the world to teach us while we wait for Omega - Jesus' triumphant return. You have a lot to learn yet, just monitor your attitude you are behaving negatively and that is risky, you can get hurt by thinking negatively of God.

It may look real negative but i'm just trying to come to terms with a lot of these concepts. This is life and i want to do whats best for myself. Seems that the best thing i could do would be to seekout this Holy Spirit, maybe then i'll understand.

 

[oi_antz]

It may look real negative but i'm just trying to come to terms with a lot of these concepts. This is life and i want to do whats best for myself. Seems that the best thing i could do would be to seekout this Holy Spirit, maybe then i'll understand.

Very wise.

John 14:21
Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me. And because they love me, my Father will love them. And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.”

When Jesus reveals Himself to you then you will understand. Until then, you have to decide whether you will obey Him.

 

[elman]

like what?

Almost all of history was written by the one that won the battle. Bias is always present.

 

[createdtoworship]

Almost all of history was written by the one that won the battle. Bias is always present.

Are you familiar with the planck measurement of time? It's where time is no longer divisible by 2. It's the smallest unit of time that we can measure. But it's still means that we don't have the technology to see infinitely small amounts of time. It's mind blowing. How could time just evolve? You know?

 

[SkyWriting]

Originally Posted by SkyWriting Well, yes. They would dare sin. Hell is separation from God. Sin is separation from God. Anybody who sins is in hell. The difference seems to be that we all get the blessings of a life even as sinners. It's a gift to every person, even us sinners. Yes, some have a short lived life. But even a few minutes is still a gift. Free and clear. Our responsibility is to acknowledge the gift. Those who "despise God" don't get the benefits that come from giving thanks instead. But they still got to live here a while, no charge.

Not everyone "despises God", people just living life best they know. Besides how can you despise something which you don't even know exists? Still get to live here no charge? What kind of God does that? Why can't he just give us life freely out of the goodness of his heart? If he really wanted loving followers than He wouldn't put guns to our head saying "Follow me or suffer!"

He didn't say He was going to MAKE you suffer. He just points out that you will. Many don't get that it's a kind warning. There is a rumor that knowing God brings peace. What would not knowing God bring then....hypothetically speaking...?

I mean if i serously believe all that i'll just live my life in fear. Whats the point when i don't even know if it's real till i'm dead? It would make more sense if people said to seekout the truth for yourself, rather then assuming that they have got it right. Faith doesn't know a thing, yet people pretend it does.

I don't pretend my knowledge of God. You need to insist that I do to keep your worldview, but I don't. My faith is built on a solid foundation of experiences and interactions with God Himself.