Why is God omnibenevolent?
- Thread starter TheLostCoin
- Start date
fhansen
Oldbie
Anything is possible. And people do, indeed, have all kinds of concepts about the gods or God, a "distorted image" according to one teaching I've read. Based on life experiences alone God can seem whimsical, tyrannical, angry, aloof, distant, uncaring. But here in this world we experience-we literally know-both good and evil. So the good: beauty, truth, love, nature, etc, certainly speaks to the existence of a good and awesome God, while the experience of evil certainly makes us wonder about that.
And this is the very reason, when understood, that Jesus finally came and set the record straight, fully revealing the true face of God when the time was ripe in human history, when man was ready, even if just barely, to receive the full light. He showed, by His every word, deed, death and resurrection, that God exists, God is good, trustworthy, and true; God is humble even, amazingly, God loves humankind lavishly.
God would allow Himself to be hung on a cross and suffer an excruciatingly humiliating and painful death at the hands of His own wayward creation, in spite of our sins, if that what it takes to prove a love so wide and vast and deep that it's beyond our comprehension at first glance, forgiving all the while. A very different God from the gods and superheroes of this world-and of the "heavenly" gods we sort of automatically conceive of.
Upvote
0
There are six points I argue for the omnibenevolence of God, but two that are particularly relevant to how you expressed this question. My other arguments address things like God's providence and God's display of love in the incarnation of Christ, but your question seems to be more epistemological (how can we know that these revelations have an underlying omnibenevolent motive) so I will provide the two arguments I employ to address that particular problem. If you have need of logical and Scriptural resolutions to other related problems, I can provide those arguments and answers to any other questions you may have.
1. Since God created us, the universe that surrounds us and everything extrinsic to Himself, everything in all existence derives it's being from God in its entirety. This includes the mind and the entity inside of our flesh we call the brain, which was created to be our fleshly device by which we process our thoughts, emotions and the world around us in our mental interactions with it. This mind-brain composite in which we contain all of our cognitive capacities and functions was provided by God all of its abilities, not only in its range of apprehensions of truths but also in its ability to apprehend categories of truth.
What I mean by ranges of apprehension is our brains capacity to be used to process information at certain speeds, the amount of information our brain can hold simultaneously, how efficient our thought processes are, how much access we have to our subconscious, etc.; our quantitative abilities. What I mean by categories of apprehension is what we can apprehend to exist at all, which we can extend the range of our capacities through to apprehend knowledge about such matters. To provide an example, the range of our cognitive capacities concerning moral truths would be applied to discriminating between events and actions to determine the moral quality of those events and actions. Our cognitive capacity of categorical apprehension of truth in this instance would be the ability to understand that their even is a moral realm to apprehend at all.
Thus, God is the source of our moral apprehensions, and if God wanted to deceive us, being the designer of our cognitive functions and capacities in their entirety, He would not even have to try. All God would have to do to deceive humankind is provide them cognitive capacities so limited (similar to an animal) that they would be absolutely unable to apprehend His deception if He were to flaunt His malevolent motives before their eyes all day long. So what you have to ask yourself is this: If God wanted to deceive me, why would He provide me the cognitive ability to discriminate between truth and falsehood with such accuracy that I would be able to discover His deception? To believe this you would have to believe that God is wiser than Himself (obviously self-defeating) since our wisdom and capacities are derived from God and yet would be presumed more potent than the potentiator (again, self-defeating). The truth is, doubt exists for only two reasons: Ignorance and free agency. Either we are simply lacking in knowledge and unable to understand why God is abundantly worthy of our absolute trust, or we simply choose to deny Him and His testimony. This decision or ignorant response of doubt never results from rational investigation.
In summary, God is the author of the same cognitive functions that we must use to doubt Him or impose our perspectives onto His creative decree (how we think things ought to be), wholly by the use of the tools provided by His decree of our minds. When you consider this, it should occur to you that there is literally no more of an absurd use of our minds than to use them against the one who constituted them, to doubt what He has revealed of Himself or the perfection of His will.
2. Complimentary to this first argument is the axiom of our moral intuitions, that love is the virtue from which all others derive and serve. Proceeding from the first argument, which is necessarily true as creations of God (that all we are is derived from His creative decree, including our mind-brain composite and it's capacities), this axiomatic moral intuition is derive from God in both its content and our instinctual sensitivity to it. Sometimes our conscience can be manipulated by external influences or personal motivations (by which try to justify our actions to silence the conscience) so that our sensitivities are roused or muted to something not consistent with the objective nature of love, but regardless of errors in either direction the axiom is sustained that love has moral primacy. This is why whenever a behaviour is proposed as justified, (even when the behaviour is actually immoral) the premise of the justification is its consistency with what is loving.
So regardless of manipulations to the perceptions of the nature of actions or the definition of love (a reason we must be critical and align our perceptions and definitions to the ultimate source of the reality), our consciences present to us that love has ultimate value in our motivations and actions. Since our conscience is derived from God as our creator, this understanding and our sensitivity to it is from the mind of God and thus informative of His manner of motivation and action.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
- Nov 16, 2016
- 5,931
- 4,649
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Eastern Orthodox
- Marital Status
- Married
Evil is destructive and good and love are creative. So the fact that we are here at all is a major point in favor of good.
Upvote
0
- Jun 13, 2015
- 4,191
- 2,818
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
You don't know the Lord. If you did, you would not even speculate such a notion. BTW, God is a contraction of good.
Upvote
0
When you try to stop sinning, what do you do in its place?
Sin is failing to obey Christ's commands, not merely avoiding certain acts. This is what perfect sinlessness looks like:
Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. -- John 5
We aren't righteous by not doing, but by doing.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
JesusYeshuaisLord
Active Member
- Jun 7, 2018
- 153
- 79
- 36
- Country
- New Zealand
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- In Relationship
We are here now dealing with good and evil so it probably means that he did create the circumstances under which evil arose.
Upvote
0
fhansen
Oldbie
The classic answer is that God allows a radical degree of freedom; the more free we are, to choose good or evil, the more we own the choice whatever it is and the greater our justice when choosing rightly. And this means that we can opt to embrace the good, to follow God in loving as He does. He simply will not force us to; the cross stands as an offering, that we can navigate to once we become jaded of the world's offerings. Yet the Church doesn't pretend to have pat, easy answers to the question. Here are some pertinent teachings, distilled as it were over the centuries:
309 If God the Father almighty, the Creator of the ordered and good world, cares for all his creatures, why does evil exist? To this question, as pressing as it is unavoidable and as painful as it is mysterious, no quick answer will suffice. Only Christian faith as a whole constitutes the answer to this question: the goodness of creation, the drama of sin and the patient love of God who comes to meet man by his covenants, the redemptive Incarnation of his Son, his gift of the Spirit, his gathering of the Church, the power of the sacraments and his call to a blessed life to which free creatures are invited to consent in advance, but from which, by a terrible mystery, they can also turn away in advance. There is not a single aspect of the Christian message that is not in part an answer to the question of evil.
324 The fact that God permits physical and even moral evil is a mystery that God illuminates by his Son Jesus Christ who died and rose to vanquish evil. Faith gives us the certainty that God would not permit an evil if he did not cause a good to come from that very evil, by ways that we shall fully know only in eternal life.
385 God is infinitely good and all his works are good. Yet no one can escape the experience of suffering or the evils in nature which seem to be linked to the limitations proper to creatures: and above all to the question of moral evil. Where does evil come from? "I sought whence evil comes and there was no solution", said St. Augustine, and his own painful quest would only be resolved by his conversion to the living God. For "the mystery of lawlessness" is clarified only in the light of the "mystery of our religion". The revelation of divine love in Christ manifested at the same time the extent of evil and the superabundance of grace. We must therefore approach the question of the origin of evil by fixing the eyes of our faith on him who alone is its conqueror.
Upvote
0
Oldmantook
Well-Known Member
Upvote
0
Ignatius the Kiwi
Dissident
- Mar 2, 2013
- 7,086
- 3,768
- Country
- New Zealand
- Faith
- Eastern Orthodox
- Marital Status
- Single
I can only look at the world and see that there is good, particular kinds of good in the face of unremitting evil and wonder why a purely evil God would allow such things. Evil in the Christian conception isn't a positive force but the lack of something. Evil hatred is a lack of love.
We live in a world where there is evil and suffering but often times there is good overcoming those very problems. There are examples of men and women suffering to help others, perhaps dying in the process yet we would say their actions were good and laudable.
Would not an evil God arrange things in such a way that if there were the necessity for goodness, that in the end there would be only despair before death? Yet we know that is not a universal and people have died happily while suffering great evil.
We could imagine a world where evil in totality has it's way, suffering and misery everywhere with no goodness in it at all. Our world contains these things but we also see the ability to overcome evil and good ends up being superior in the end.
I don't think the idea of God being evil is consistent with what we see in the world presently or especially of what we see in the Biblical account of God.
We live in a world where there is evil and suffering but often times there is good overcoming those very problems. There are examples of men and women suffering to help others, perhaps dying in the process yet we would say their actions were good and laudable.
Would not an evil God arrange things in such a way that if there were the necessity for goodness, that in the end there would be only despair before death? Yet we know that is not a universal and people have died happily while suffering great evil.
We could imagine a world where evil in totality has it's way, suffering and misery everywhere with no goodness in it at all. Our world contains these things but we also see the ability to overcome evil and good ends up being superior in the end.
I don't think the idea of God being evil is consistent with what we see in the world presently or especially of what we see in the Biblical account of God.
Upvote
0
Oldmantook
Well-Known Member
No nit picking intended - just an honest question. Some people such as myself may get the wrong impression, so I asked for further clarification. It is not a question of "how many times" as we all sin and we know that no one is without sin according to 1 John 1. The germane question is, is our lifestyle marked by the practice of sin or occasional sin. Since no one is without sin, we will still occasionally sin. However, we can choose not to practice sin, or engage in habitual sin. Habitual sin that is not repented of leads to spiritual death.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Dorothy Mae
Well-Known Member
- May 26, 2018
- 5,657
- 1,017
- Country
- Switzerland
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Because those who know Him can tell you that He is morally good. How do you know anything about anyone whom you do not personally know? You rely on those who do. The Bible was written by men who walked with God (to varying degree) and knew Him. They were inspired to write of what they knew so that others might come to know Him and measure their thinking of Him by the experts.
Upvote
0
Dorothy Mae
Well-Known Member
- May 26, 2018
- 5,657
- 1,017
- Country
- Switzerland
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Because those who walk with Him have come to know how good He is to the degree that they can bear knowing.
Upvote
0
AACJ
Please Pray
- Nov 17, 2016
- 1,975
- 1,584
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- US-Republican
So you are only looking for a compelling philosophical argument as to why God is pure good and not evil? Ok, maybe the following will work for you.
You acknowledge that God created us, so presumably you also are affirming that the Judaeo-Christian God is uncreated.
You can only judge what is evil (crooked; out of the way; wrong) or righteous (that which is right; in a right way; perfect) from that which is Righteous. But you cannot determine that which is evil and good from that which is evil. "A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line."--CA Lewis
A straight line is necessarily prior or antecedent in some way to a crooked line; it is a necessary reality existing prior to the crooked line. So if God is bad, then another being or standard of absolute righteousness would necessarily be prior or above the bad god; a reality necessary for the existence of the bad god.
The starting point for determining what is good and evil is necessarily that which is righteous (perfectly good); That which is perfectly good necessarily is the starting point; it is antecedent to evil so to speak. Therefore, that which is evil is a deviation from that which is righteous. One could argue that there is another righteous being somehow above the biblical God, but then there is the problem (among others) of infinite regress.
Of course you cannot out even ask your question without acknowledging some absolute, righteous standard whereby you can judge good from evil and what would constitute a bad god. From where are you deriving such a standard? Without a righteous God, who is the very standard and starting point concerning righteousness, you would not even know what is good and evil. How could you? Molecules in motion certainly cannot reveal to you the nature of good and evil. Molecules in motion cannot determine what constitutes a bad god.
"In other words badness cannot succeed even in being bad in the same way in which goodness is good. Goodness is, so to speak, itself: badness is only spoiled goodness. And there must be something good first before it can be spoiled...badness is only spoiled goodness... In order to be bad [if one assumes that the biblical God is bad] he [God] must have good things to want and then to pursue in the wrong way: he must have impulses which were originally good in order to be able to pervert them. But if he is bad he cannot supply himself either with good things to desire or with good impulses to pervert. He must be getting both from the Good Power. And if so, then he is not independent. He is part of the Good Power’s world. he was made either by the Good Power or by some power above them both.
Put it more simply still. To be bad, he must exist and have intelligence and will. But existence, intelligence and will are in themselves good. Therefore he must be getting them from the Good Power: even to be bad he must borrow or steal from his opponent. And do you now beg to see why Christianity has always said that the devil is a fallen angel? That is not a mere story for the children. It is a real recognition of the fact that evil is a parasite, not an original thing. The powers which enable evil to carry on are powers given it by goodness. All the things which enable a bad man to be effectively bad are in themselves good things-resolution, cleverness, good looks, existence itself."
--CS Lewis
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Dorothy Mae
Well-Known Member
- May 26, 2018
- 5,657
- 1,017
- Country
- Switzerland
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
This is very believable. The Christianity offered to people is very immature these days. Few are taught the faith as known by those who wrote the Bible. The culture is now very narcissistic and that has been passed into the church where everything is offered to man that appeals to his pleasure. The pleasure of God or other people is secondary. This week the extra evening worship date was announced and it ran like an advertisement. Come and experience God in worship...you can feel good....you get......you benefit....you...you ...you. It is no wonder that there are few to go to who even know we can know God let alone walk with Him.
The Bible is thee reference book written by those who knew God. They to a man say God is good and does good and give examples. Use that is no person around you knows Him. And I am not convinced most pastors will give anything besides the pat rehearsed dead answers.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Similar threads
