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WHY IS DANIEL 9:24-27 ONE OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT PASSAGES IN SCRIPTURE ?

The Times

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Christ gave the Jews, not Romans, a sign that THEY will be the one who destroyed the temple!

The Temple of his body, is what they tried to destroy and in three days he raised it.

Like many Premillennialists and Preterists today, the Jews did not understand what Christ really talked about here. The Old Testament Congregation "WAS" the temple of His Body.

Wrong!

Christ's body had not yet been offered as the cornerstone for the New Temple of God, that is not made by human hands.

The Old Testament, according to Leviticus was a temple made by human hands and was under a temporal Levitical priesthood.

This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by human might, nor by human power, but by my Holy Spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.7Who art thou, O great Congregation? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a Salvation Highway: and He shall bring forth the Cornerstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.

The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation Cornerstone of this Temple; His hands shall also finish it;

The Jews were His People! The people of the Prince! It is them who did come and destroy the city and the sanctuary.

No.

The Jews couldn't come, because they were already there to begin with. For crying out loud, they were the establishment, under the temporal priesthood.

11If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. (Hebrews 7)

You cannot equate the old testament temple, with the temple of Christ's body.

The outer vail being twained, signaled the separation from the outside temple centred priesthood.

The temple Christ talked about was actually His body representing the old testament congregation.

Stop mixing the old testament congregation with the new testament. The two are completely different.

The old testament congregation fell and Christ rebuilt it in three days which we are NOW the living stones of a new temple (New Testament congregation)

No, incorrect.

Jesus did NOT rebuild the old testament temple.
Stop infusing old with new.

Don’t you know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough? 7Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old bread leavened with malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. (1 Corinthians 5:6-8)

Christ did NOT predict about a physical destruction of a city and temple buildings in 70AD at all.

Oh really!
Disciples were shown by Jesus the buildings in the plural, shortly after walking out of them, whilst pointing to them and the stones. The disciples had no idea that Jesus would be crucified and so Jesus showing them an allegory that was beyond their comprehension would be a mute point. Jesus temple is in the singular, but he pointed to buildings in the plural.

1And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Beside the temple was NOT holy at that time anyway.

:scratch:

The covenant that Messiah the Prince confirmed already took place on the Cross.

Before and after the Cross within the Great Commission.

So it does not make sense to have physical UNHOLY temple being destroyed some 40 years after the confirmation of the covenant of verse 27, because the New Testament congregation

:scratch:

the New Testament congregation already begun since the Cross when Christ rebuilt it three days after His death.

From Pentecost and onwards.
 
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claninja

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That interpretation of Christ's Olivet Discourse comes from not understanding that the not one stone on top of another prophecy is a dual fulfillment prophecy.

Is there scripture saying that it is dual fulfillment, specifically that the 2nd temple will be destroyed, a 3rd will be rebuilt and then destroyed?

It applied to Jerusalem's destruction in 70 A.D. by the Romans

I agree

That's why the signs Jesus gave there align with the Seals of Revelation 6

Correct, which is about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad


why He proclaimed the generation that sees those things will not end until all those signs are complete

The generation that saw those things would be the generation of the disciples and unfaithful old covenant Israel leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad.

Today in Jerusalem, the Wailing Wall of huge stones at the base of the Temple Mount still stands, revealing that the 70 A.D. destruction was not complete,

If your going to get very literal about this, then please explain which specific temple building the wailing wall was a part of Also, how could the disciples see the wailing wall from just outside of the temple?




Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
Matthew 24:1-2 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 24:1-2 - English Standard Version

And while some were speaking of the temple, how it was adorned with noble stones and offerings, he said, 6 “As for these things that you see, the days will come when there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
Luke 21:5-6 - Bible Gateway passage: Luke 21:5-6 - English Standard Version

And as he came out of the temple, one of his disciples said to him, “Look, Teacher, what wonderful stones and what wonderful buildings!” And Jesus said to him, “Do you see these great buildings? There will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
Mark 13:1-2 - Bible Gateway passage: Mark 13:1-2 - English Standard Version
 
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claninja

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Probably even earlier than that, when Jesus said from this moment forward, your house is left onto you desolate, then he immediately walked away from them. The outer temple vail being torn into two, signalled the end of the Outward temple centred worship under the Old Covenant. Jesus said the time is coming and is already come where you will no longer worship God outwardly, but rather inwardly in the Spirit and in truth.

I absolutely agree! Which makes even more sense with Daniel 9:

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Daniel 9:27 - Bible Gateway passage: Daniel 9:27 - King James Version


Because the city and sanctuary were already desolate before their end( consummation).

So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Galatians 4:31 - Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 4:31 - King James Version

the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

A mystery is that “which was not made known to people. That is why John is told not to write it down. Get it! Therefore it remains sealed, until the end of the Harvest.

The mystery of God is that “which he purposed in his Living Word, to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment (Crescendo)—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ” (Ephesians 1:9–10; cf. 1 Corinthians 2:7; Revelation 2:7). The mystery of God is the consummation of God’s plan in bringing His kingdom in Christ to fulfillment.



He had a little scroll open in his hand. And he set his right foot on the sea, and his left foot on the land, but that in the days of the trumpet call to be sounded by the seventh angel, the mystery of God would be fulfilled, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.
Revelation 10:2,7 - Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 10:2, Revelation 10:7 - English Standard Version


What is the mystery of God?

which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
Ephesians 3:5-6 - Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 3:5-6 - English Standard Version
 
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Quasar92

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Ahhh, so you are using one Bible that is part of the proliferation of modern and "better" translations? Not surprised. I can see that there are few verses being omitted!

Let check with Young Literal Translation which is an extremely literal translation that attempts to preserve the tense and word usage as found in the original Greek and Hebrew writings.

Daniel 9:24-27 (YLT)
[24] 'Seventy weeks are determined for thy people, and for thy holy city, to shut up the transgression, and to seal up sins, and to cover iniquity, and to bring in righteousness age-during, and to seal up vision and prophet, and to anoint the holy of holies.
[25] And thou dost know, and dost consider wisely, from the going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem till Messiah the Leader is seven weeks, and sixty and two weeks: the broad place hath been built again, and the rampart, even in the distress of the times.
[26] And after the sixty and two weeks, cut off is Messiah, and the city and the holy place are not his, the Leader who hath come doth destroy the people; and its end is with a flood, and till the end is war, determined are desolations.
[27] And he hath strengthened a covenant with many—one week, and in the midst of the week he causeth sacrifice and present to cease, and by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, even till the consummation, and that which is determined is poured on the desolate one.'



False! Your so-called 2,000 years gap theory between 69th and 70th week is NOT FOUND IN SCRIPTURE, and is a man-made scheme to fit your faulty doctrine!



How Absurd! That can be easily disputed! The whole theme of Daniel 9:24-27 is about Messiah the Prince who is God Himself and His people, Israel. It is about what God's salvation plan for his People, Covenant Israel. Not national Israel! You have downplayed the grammatical antecedent issues by forcing to insert a "third party" as "he" of verse 27 in order to fit your faulty "coming prince" as little horn, beast, antichrist, etc. theory. You actually have denied God's salvation plan with His Covenant for all of His People, Old and New Testament. You are being obsessed and blinded with the same mindset based on old testament pharisaical belief and attitude that God only deal with the Jews, physical temple, and physical nation in Daniel 9.


FYI, I use four different Bibles, to best determine the meaning of difficult passages of Scripture. That you call the material I post from the Bibles I use, "modern, faulty and absurd," is the kind of meaningless, opinionated, unsupportable hot air coming from you. And where did you obtain qualification and authority to teach the Bible? Let me see your attempt at proving the trash you post!

Explain to me why you attempt to make the RULER/PRINCE OF THE PEOPLE TO COME, in Dan.9:26, is anyone other than general Titus, who lead the Roman army who destroyed Jerusalem and the temple, as is documented in past recorded history. He IS NOT the Antichrist or Jesus Christ of verse 27, who confirms a covenant with many.


Quasar92
 
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BABerean2

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And where did you obtain qualification and authority to teach the Bible?

It was probably not Dallas Theological Seminary, which promotes John Darby's Two Peoples of God doctrine.

Maybe it was Providence Theological Seminary, which teaches the Bible from a New Covenant perspective. See the link below.

Providence Theological Seminary


.
 
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Davy

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The identical Hebrew word for prince, "nagid", is used in both verses 25 and 26. There is no distinction of any type drawn between the two instances.

It is Messiah in verse 25. It is also Messiah in verse 26.

This verse must be understood in context as to what the people of this prince does, which was fulfilled already in 70 A.D. by the Roman general Titus who destroyed Jerusalem "the city", and the temple "the sanctuary".

If you tried to apply that same context to Jesus about that people of the prince, then it would mean Jesus' people destroyed Jerusalem and the temple, which such an idea is totally ludicrous and untrue. Thus context of the verse is everything, and so are colons that help divide subjects.

Dan 9:26
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
KJV
 
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Davy

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You need to read verse 25. Messiah the prince! That is what the context about! God didn't talk about other prince here at all. Remember verse 24 is all about between God as Messiah the prince and His people Israel! That is what his covenant is all about! Fo his people,not for himself! Get it. You need to get the idea about evil prince, national Israel or man-made covenant out of your carnal mind.

To apply Jesus to being that prince of the people that destroyed Jerusalem and the temple is insanity. Jesus' people did no such thing, because it was the Romans who did it in 70 A.D. and the Romans were pagans, certainly not Christians. The Romans were not represetatives of Christ. Jesus pronouncing destruction to the Jews did not mean He was who actually carried it out. Save that for the future destruction in Zechariah 14 at His return to the Mount of Olives.

Nor did Jesus make any... covenant with unbelieving Jews! And nor did Jesus break any covenant with those who believed on Him, even as it is today.

The crept in unawares have simply sucked some of you folks into a false interpretation of the Dan.9 prophecy.
 
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Davy

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Oh really!
So, according to you, the Holy God concerns himself with an unholy covenant, right?

You have it reversed. The "vile person" of Dan.11 is what the Dan.9:27 verse is about. That "vile person" is NOT... our Lord Jesus.

The "vile person" represents the coming Antichrist. And he makes a "league" and becomes strong with a small people (meaning a small group of insiders at Jerusalem):

Dan 11:21-23
21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.


22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.


23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

KJV

There's the connections with the Dan.9:27 subjects. The "he" of Dan.9:27 is about this "vile person" that comes to Jerusalem and makes a league (pact). And the arms of a flood being the metaphorical flood of the Dan.9:26 verse.
 
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Davy

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What gave you the idea that God 's Holy Covenant, planned from the Garden and on the precious blood of his only begotten Son is applicable only if the Orthodox Jews accept it on their terms. It is NOT up for grabs.

Jesus put the Orthodox Jews on notice, inclusive of the Levitical high priest. Jesus put all of them under the condemnation of God, when they refused to accept God's 6 conditional terms, that Daniel stated, were determined upon thr Jews.

They failed to accept God's terms and continued their abomibable temple sacrifices.

Which still... meant Jesus made NO covenant with unbelieving Jews!

Jesus preached to them the gospel and plainly said, if a town or city refuses God's terms, it would be better for Sodom than that town or city.

The Orthodox high priest was told by Jesus....

The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

64“You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

65Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. 66What do you think?”

“He is worthy of death,” they answered.

And they were executed by God, using the many Gentile nations under Rome who accepted God's terms.

Jerusalem's destruction by the Romans was NOT by a Rome "who accepted God's terms", Rome was still PAGAN when the Roman general Titus brought his army upon Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and destroyed it. You guys keep trying to assign Jesus to that "prince" that destroyed Jerusalem and the sanctuary when it was the Roman general Titus per history. If you try to say things like, "Well, God is in control, so He was Who really did it," then you could say that about every evil deed done in this world, which of course would be a major falsehood!
 
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Davy

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Is there scripture saying that it is dual fulfillment, specifically that the 2nd temple will be destroyed, a 3rd will be rebuilt and then destroyed?

There's Scripture enough to point to it. Daniel 11 about the "vile person" and the placing of the abomination of desolation inside the temple at Jerusalem, and Christ's second coming in Zechariah 14 that will create the great valley in Jerusalem, and many Scriptures by God's OT prophets about the destruction to occur on that "day of the Lord" when Jesus comes.

Daniel 11 about the "vile person" is specific though, because Antiochus Epiphanes in 165-170 B.C. almost fulfilled it to a tee, but Jesus gave the warning about the abomination of desolation idol from that Daniel Scripture long after Antiochus had died, meaning another fulfillment is still yet, and Antiochus didn't complete it. Thus, dual fulfillment.

When the Babylon harlot of Revelation is destroyed at Jesus' return, it will be said again, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen", a direct quote from Isaiah 21 about ancient Babylon's fall. Thus, dual fulfillment, just not all the same exact parameters. There are several dual fulfillment prophecies in God's Word. One only need to study to notice them.

The generation that saw those things would be the generation of the disciples and unfaithful old covenant Israel leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad.

Not what Jesus said. He said the generation that would see "all these things" would not pass until those things were fulfilled (Matt.24). The last sign (or thing) He gave there in His Olivet Discourse was that of His second coming. So has Jesus' second coming happened today already? Is that what you believe?

If your going to get very literal about this, then please explain which specific temple building the wailing wall was a part of Also, how could the disciples see the wailing wall from just outside of the temple?

Well, I believe all of God's Word is literal, it's just that He uses figures of speech, allegory, parable, etc. to teach us about literal Truths. The Wailing Wall was part of the temple complex. The Romans left it because it was not specifically a wall of the 2nd temple buiding itself. Yet it was still part of the 2nd temple complex, a retaining wall. And thus Christ's prophecy that not one stone standing on top of another has yet to be fulfilled there.

Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
Matthew 24:1-2 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 24:1-2 - English Standard Version

And while some were speaking of the temple, how it was adorned with noble stones and offerings, he said, 6 “As for these things that you see, the days will come when there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
Luke 21:5-6 - Bible Gateway passage: Luke 21:5-6 - English Standard Version

And as he came out of the temple, one of his disciples said to him, “Look, Teacher, what wonderful stones and what wonderful buildings!” And Jesus said to him, “Do you see these great buildings? There will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
Mark 13:1-2 - Bible Gateway passage: Mark 13:1-2 - English Standard Version

And after Jesus said that, His disciples also then asked Him what the sign of His COMING would be, and the end of the world:

Matt 24:2-3
2 And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

KJV

The signs Jesus then gave them while upon the Mount of Olives are the Seals of Revelation 6, which was given to the seven Churches through His Apostle John. The final sign is that of His future second coming.
 
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claninja

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There's Scripture enough to point to it. Daniel 11 about the "vile person" and the placing of the abomination of desolation inside the temple at Jerusalem, and Christ's second coming in Zechariah 14 that will create the great valley in Jerusalem, and many Scriptures by God's OT prophets about the destruction to occur on that "day of the Lord" when Jesus comes.

Daniel 11 about the "vile person" is specific though, because Antiochus Epiphanes in 165-170 B.C. almost fulfilled it to a tee, but Jesus gave the warning about the abomination of desolation idol from that Daniel Scripture long after Antiochus had died, meaning another fulfillment is still yet, and Antiochus didn't complete it. Thus, dual fulfillment.

None of this states the 2nd temple destroyed, then a 3rd temple built, and then destroyed.

Antiochus desecrated the temple as prophesied by Daniel, but did not destroy it.
The roman armies did not only perform sacrifices to their ensigns on the eastern gate of the temple, but they also completely destroyed the temple.

When the Babylon harlot of Revelation is destroyed at Jesus' return, it will be said again, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen", a direct quote from Isaiah 21 about ancient Babylon's fall. Thus, dual fulfillment, just not all the same exact parameters. There are several dual fulfillment prophecies in God's Word. One only need to study to notice them.

Who is this judgment against?
Isaiah 13:9-10
Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, Cruel, with fury and burning anger. To make the land a desolation; And He will exterminate its sinners from it. For the stars of heaven and their constellations
Will not flash forth their light; The sun will be dark when it rises And the moon will not shed its light.

Babylon
Isaiah 13:17,19
Behold, I am going to stir up the Medes against them, Who will not value silver or take pleasure in gold. And Babylon, the beauty of kingdoms, the glory of the Chaldeans’ pride, Will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

Jesus uses this same imagery when describing the Judgment of Israel
Matthew 24:29
But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken

Jesus also states the following to the scribes and Pharisees
Matthew 24:35-36
And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

Babylon, in revelation, is also charged with this:
Revelation 18:24
In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people, of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”


**What we see here is the language used to describe Babylon's judgment in the OT, is similar to, if no the same, as the language used to describe Judgment on Israel. The Babylon of Revelation is unfaithful Old covenant Israel, that rejected Christ til her end.

Not what Jesus said. He said the generation that would see "all these things" would not pass until those things were fulfilled (Matt.24). The last sign (or thing) He gave there in His Olivet Discourse was that of His second coming. So has Jesus' second coming happened today already? Is that what you believe?

It absolutely is what Jesus said. To say it is not, is to completely ignore the previous chapter's context

Matthew 21: Parable of wicked tenants
1. Who are the wicked tenants? unfaithful old covenant Israel
2. What did they do? Killed the servants and vineyard ower's son
3. What happens to them? The vineyard owner comes and kills them
Matthew 22: Parable of the wedding feast
1. Who are the original wedding guests? Old covenant Israel
2. What did they do? Killed the servants of the King
3. What happens to the them? The king sends an army to kill them and burn their city
Matthew 23: Woes to the scribes and Pharisees
1. Who is Jesus talking to? Scribes and Pharisees, unfaithful Jerusalem
2. What does Jesus charge them with? Righteous blood shed
3. When would they be punished? during their generation

In all 3 cases, Jesus is talking about old covenant Israel, its sins, and its punishments that would come upon them during their generation. So the context of "this generation" is definitely the one during the time of Jesus and not a future one some 2000+ years later.

So has Jesus' second coming happened today already? Is that what you believe?

Matthew 21:40-41,45
Therefore, WHEN THE OWNER OF THE VINEYARD COMES, what will he do to those tenants?”

“He will bring those wretches to a wretched end
,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”

When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew he was talking about them

The Romans left it because it was not specifically a wall of the 2nd temple buiding itself.

So you admit, that the wailing wall was not specifically a wall of the 2nd temple building itself.

So the prophecy of 'one stone not upon another' of the TEMPLE BUILDING was LITERALLY fulfilled in 70AD, as none of the stones of the TEMPLE BUILDING itself where left one on top another.

Yet it was still part of the 2nd temple complex, a retaining wall.

But not a part of the temple buildings, which is the only thing mentioned by jesus where the stones would not be one on top of the other after its destruction.

Could the disciples see the wailing wall from just outside the temple? Because Jesus only literally mentioned the buildings they could see.

And thus Christ's prophecy that not one stone standing on top of another has yet to be fulfilled there.

Athiests use this same argument to disprove Christianity.

Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

Well the disciples believed they were living at the "end of the world", I wonder why they thought that:

1 Corinthians 10:11
Now these things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the end of the world has come
 
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TribulationSigns

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The Temple of his body, is what they tried to destroy and in three days he raised it.

Jesus did not ask the Jews to destroy his fleshly body only to resurrect it. You have not compared it with rest of Scripture like I have provided you earlier. The Temple of his body represents the congregation of Israel with Jews being His people. Spiritual Discerned.

Wrong!

Christ's body had not yet been offered as the cornerstone for the New Temple of God, that is not made by human hands.

I think you need to read the Scripture carefully. SPeaking of people of Israel:

Acts 4:10-11
[10] Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
[11] This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

Matthew 21:41-43
[41] They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
The builders of the Old Testament were the one who has rejected the Messiah the Prince and put Him to death. As a result, their kingdom representation was taken away from them and gave to another whom Christ has built in three days. This is a new temple where Gentiles, once a strangers and foreigners, can be part of God's Kingdom through Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 2:19-22
[19] Then, therefore, ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow-citizens of the saints, and of the household of God,
[20] being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being chief corner- stone ,
[21] in whom all the building fitly framed together doth increase to an holy sanctuary in the Lord,
[22] in whom also ye are builded together, for a habitation of God in the Spirit.

1 Peter 2:4-9
[4] to whom coming—a living stone—by men, indeed, having been disapproved of, but with God choice, precious,
[5] and ye yourselves, as living stones, are built up, a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
[6] Wherefore, also, it is contained in the Writing: 'Lo, I lay in Zion a chief corner-stone, choice, precious, and he who is believing on him may not be put to shame;'
[7] to you, then, who are believing is the preciousness; and to the unbelieving, a stone that the builders disapproved of, this one did become for the head of a corner,
[8] and a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence—who are stumbling at the word, being unbelieving, —to which also they were set;
[9] and ye are a choice race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people acquired, that the excellences ye may shew forth of Him who out of darkness did call you to His wondrous light;​

God is not talking about a physical body of Christ here. It is His temple of His Body that represents - the congregation of Israel! One has fallen and in three days, God rebuilt it where Christ become a corner stone of THAT TEMPLE! Not physical temple! The old testament temples only point to the working of Christ. The builders of the new temple are the Gentiles with some Jews who have come to Christ in the New Testament!

This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by human might, nor by human power, but by my Holy Spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.7Who art thou, O great Congregation? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a Salvation Highway: and He shall bring forth the Cornerstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.

The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation Cornerstone of this Temple; His hands shall also finish it;

Of course, He is talking about New Testament congregation where Christ is a cornerstone of that building. Not physical temple.

You cannot equate the old testament temple, with the temple of Christ's body.

I did not say that. The temple of Christ's body represents the old testament congregation with His people, Jews as builders of that temple. Selah!

The outer vail being twained, signaled the separation from the outside temple centred priesthood.

Matthew 27:50-51
[50] Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
[51] And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;​

This is true destruction of Jersualem, the holy city. It did NOT occur in AD 70, but when Christ was crucified on the cross, right at that moment, when the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom! The veil being torn in two and the rocks rent SYMBOLIZED there was instituted a new way, a New Temple (a rebuilding or as Biblically put, "build again"). And in order for the building again, there would have to been the ruin before. Selah! For how do you rebuild up something that has not been previously brought down to ruin? Not one stone was left one upon another in that city becasue BY THEIR ABOMINATIONS, it was laid waste -- the kingdom was taken from them and given to another. Where all stones were thrown down, Christ came to start the rebuilding, being the beginning as a cornerstone of that rebuilding. Not rebulding a physical temple as so many of you suppose, but as God had always intended. Again...

Matthew 21:42-43
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof
.

The Holy city representation of the congregation of God, the kingdom of God on earth, was taken from them and was instituted in the New Testament Church. Selah! Christ is the beginning, the cornerstone of that rebuilding of what was brought to ruin. The people of the congregation built upon Him are the stones of that rebuilding of city and Temple. Thrown down, rebuilt, it's not rocket science! It is simply understanding Scripture spiritually, the way our Lord fully intended. Christians are spiritual beings, we don't understand things in the way the world does, but in the Spirit of truth. Comparing scripture with scripture in the only sound hermeneutic whereby we may understand righteously God's view of things.

1st Corinthians 2:13
  • "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."
Not by comparing the carnal, natural and physical with the carnal, but by spiritual with spiritual. These are things that man's natural wisdom will miss as he looks to worldly or carnal interpretations through history books, nations and political rulers. Selah!

Stop mixing the old testament congregation with the new testament. The two are completely different.

Says who? That is a common belief, but it's a belief that is borne out of either a misunderstanding, wishful thinking, human desire, or misapplication of scripture. As far as the nation of Israel goes, it was used as a figure or corporate representation of the children of God (as the visible church today is). But at any time in history only a remnant of that body were truly saved. After the first advent of Christ, that external covenant nation body fell, never to rise again. The New Covenant with Israel concerns a new dispensation and body of Jews and Gentiles alike. Covenant Israel never ceased and those of the eternal Covenant nation (the apostles and disciples) continue on in this New Testament representation of the body of Christ. It was only the external Covenant nation that fell. The Kingdom representation was taken away from the Jewish nation because of unbelief, and it will never return to them, as that would be confusion. As far as the kingdom goes, Israel the nation was brought to spiritual desolation at the cross. The reason so many do not comprehend this "truth" is because they have been brainwashed by evangelicals, church traditions, narrative of Jospheus who is not even child of God, or they are political rather than Spiritual and thus do not comprehend the nature of the restoration. They look for Spiritual truths in physical places (like Israel, AD 70, earthly reigns, Physical temples and kingdoms) when Christ taught in allegories, Parables, and spiritual portraits. For example:

Luke 17:20-21
  • "And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
  • Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."
The Kingdom wasn't coming that they would "physically see it" as the Jewish people thought. And that's the same fables that Premillennialists and Preterists are teaching. Christ taught of a different Kingdom! His kingdom was not like the world's Kingdom, His Temple was not made with hands, Israel's desolation was not by Romans, and His prophecy is not defined by secular historians. The Kingdom Christ came to rule in is inside each and every "true" believer when the Spirit of Christ comes to dwell there. Not a physical stones, but a living stones!

Jesus did NOT rebuild the old testament temple.
Stop infusing old with new.

For once, you are right! Christ did NOT rebuild the PHYSICAL old testament temple. Yet you got wrong temple to begin with!


Oh really!
Disciples were shown by Jesus the buildings in the plural, shortly after walking out of them, whilst pointing to them and the stones. The disciples had no idea that Jesus would be crucified and so Jesus showing them an allegory that was beyond their comprehension would be a mute point. Jesus temple is in the singular, but he pointed to buildings in the plural.

1And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Did not Jesus say buildings (plural) and not building? In fact, did He not say all the buildings of the city? Didn't you read the Scripture?

Luke 19:41-44
[41] And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
[42] Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
[43] For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
[44] And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.​

Indeed He did! Thus arguing over whether it's the building of this house, or of that house, is totally irrelevant.

Today in Jersualem, the temple foundation stones, laid one upon another, have not been all thrown down and are still left standing (one upon another) in DIRECT violation of Christ's words of His prophecy that they would not be. The foundation is the base of any building, and that is why Christ Himself is spoken of as the foundation stone of the Holy Temple. So, either Christ was wrong (heresy) about not one stone being left standing one upon another, He was just kidding (untenable), He was making a hyperbole (the excuse of choice for most theologians concerning this), or He wasn't talking about the literal Temple building stones at all, but about spiritual stones of a spiritual building. Stones = People of the Congregation! He was talking about a judgment on a people who are built up a spiritual house, not upon literal bricks or stones which is only a type!

1st Corinthians 3:11-13
  • "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
  • Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
  • Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
There are all sorts of buildings God spoke about, and all sorts of foundations, and all sorts of stones. Do you realize that not all stones are Gold, Silver and precious stones?

As far as Josephus, Titus, or the Romans in 70 a.d., that is not a Biblical interpretation at all, that is an assumption that Christ was speaking of a historical event (which didn't even qualify) when He said this. The Temple in 70 a.d. was neither Holy nor a place of God anyway! How could such a qualification be overlooked? That is why you are :scratch:! By an assumption not unlike that made by those Pharisees who said that the Temple was forty-six years in building and asked how Jesus could rebuild it in 3 days. See? As we should know, "Assumptions are the mother of errors." Titus, slaughtered pigs in the Holy place, raked city, 70 a.d., the Roman army, desecrations, Jews fleeing to the mountains, etc., etc., that phenomenon is a secular interpretation masquerading as biblical Interpretation. Convenient for a lot of theologians, but unacceptable as an interpretation "from" the Biblical perspective. Desecration of a holy place in that "alleged" Holy Temple (which wasn't the Holy Temple anymore), just doesn't qualify for the prophecy. It's a collage of contradictions!
 
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TribulationSigns

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And where did you obtain qualification and authority to teach the Bible?

My authority is the 66 books of the Holy Canon, the only credentials worth anything in the hands of the faithful messengers of God. Signed, sealed, and delivered by the Holy Spirit of God, they are rejected by most and received only by God's people. Sorry, but your so-called authority/degree from seminars can't hold a candle to the authority of this document.

Joshua 24:15
  • "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."
There is reading the Word, and then there is wresting or twisting the Word. One makes you a witness to the testimony and the other makes you a false prophet saying thus saith the Lord, when the Lord has not said. One serves the Lord and the other another god. It is written, choose who you will serve. Selah!

Explain to me why you attempt to make the RULER/PRINCE OF THE PEOPLE TO COME, in Dan.9:26, is anyone other than general Titus, who lead the Roman army who destroyed Jerusalem and the temple, as is documented in past recorded history.

I believe that you need to read my posts again, not only here, but at CARM which I have explained tons of time. You just could not receive it.

He IS NOT the Antichrist or Jesus Christ of verse 27, who confirms a covenant with many.

Sorry to disappoint you, but the context of Daniel 9:24-27 is clear about Messiah the Prince and His relationship with His People, Israel, making up of people from the Old Testament congregation in verse 26, and the New Testament congregation in verse 27. God did NOT talk about any evil person or anyone than Messiah the Prince in the context.
 
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TribulationSigns

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To apply Jesus to being that prince of the people that destroyed Jerusalem and the temple is insanity. Jesus' people did no such thing

You misrepresented what I said. I did not say that Christ's people, the Jews, came to destroy the physical city and the temple. You totally misunderstood here.

because it was the Romans who did it in 70 A.D. and the Romans were pagans, certainly not Christians. The Romans were not represetatives of Christ. Jesus pronouncing destruction to the Jews did not mean He was who actually carried it out.

Sorry. Does not make any sense.

Save that for the future destruction in Zechariah 14 at His return to the Mount of Olives.

Zecharich 14 was not talking about the destruction of the third temple, modern city of Jerusalem, or Christ physically touch down on Mount of Olives at Second Coming. It is about the First Coming and Christ established His Millennial Kingdom through the church under the feast of the tabernacle. I won't discuss this at this time as it is not part of Daniel 9 OP.

Nor did Jesus make any... covenant with unbelieving Jews!

What are you talking about? Where did I say this?

And nor did Jesus break any covenant with those who believed on Him, even as it is today.

I do not think you really understand how Christ will cause the sacrifice to cease if this is what you were referring to in Daniel 9:27.

The crept in unawares have simply sucked some of you folks into a false interpretation of the Dan.9 prophecy.

The Lord Judges and I am comfortable with that!
 
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jgr

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This verse must be understood in context as to what the people of this prince does, which was fulfilled already in 70 A.D. by the Roman general Titus who destroyed Jerusalem "the city", and the temple "the sanctuary".

If you tried to apply that same context to Jesus about that people of the prince, then it would mean Jesus' people destroyed Jerusalem and the temple, which such an idea is totally ludicrous and untrue. Thus context of the verse is everything, and so are colons that help divide subjects.

Dan 9:26
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
KJV

Here's your ludicrous, untrue, verifiable scripture and history.

There are two perspectives regarding the identity of the people of the prince Messiah, both scripturally and historically applicable and verifiable:

1. The pagan Roman armies under Titus, which were God's instruments of judgment and destruction. In similar fashion elsewhere, e.g. Jeremiah 43:10-13, God described the pagan Nebuchadnezzar, whom He chose as His instrument of judgment and destruction, as being "My servant." That would of course also include the armies under his control.
2. The Jews themselves, whom Josephus documents as being responsible for an enormity of the suffering that occurred: "I shall therefore speak my mind here at once briefly; that neither did any other city ever suffer such miseries; nor did any age ever breed a generation more fruitful in wickedness than this was from the beginning of the world." Contemporary Jews concur:

"The scene was now set for the revolt's final catastrophe. Outside Jerusalem, Roman troops prepared to besiege the city; inside the city, the Jews were engaged in a suicidal civil war. In later generations, the rabbis hyperbolically declared that the revolt's failure, and the Temple's destruction, was due not to Roman military superiority but to causeless hatred (sinat khinam) among the Jews (Yoma 9b). While the Romans would have won the war in any case, the Jewish civil war both hastened their victory and immensely increased the casualties. One horrendous example: In expectation of a Roman siege, Jerusalem's Jews had stockpiled a supply of dry food that could have fed the city for many years. But one of the warring Zealot factions burned the entire supply, apparently hoping that destroying this "security blanket" would compel everyone to participate in the revolt. The starvation resulting from this mad act caused suffering as great as any the Romans inflicted.

And the prince was none other than, and only, Messiah.
 
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Davy

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None of this states the 2nd temple destroyed, then a 3rd temple built, and then destroyed.

Antiochus desecrated the temple as prophesied by Daniel, but did not destroy it.
The roman armies did not only perform sacrifices to their ensigns on the eastern gate of the temple, but they also completely destroyed the temple.

Does Jesus point to another temple in Jerusalem for the end of this world? Yes.

When He quoted from the Book of Daniel about the "abomination of desolation" idol, which Antiochus served as a blueprint about 200 years EARLIER, Jesus prophesying about that points to a rebuilt temple for the end of this world that the coming Antichrist will make desolate. I already mentioned this difference with the Daniel prophecy, but you bypassed it. What Antiochus did in 170 B.C. Jerusalem is the blueprint for the endtime Antichrist, not the Roman army having a cookout.

Who is this judgment against?
Isaiah 13:9-10
Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, Cruel, with fury and burning anger. To make the land a desolation; And He will exterminate its sinners from it. For the stars of heaven and their constellations
Will not flash forth their light; The sun will be dark when it rises And the moon will not shed its light.

Babylon
Isaiah 13:17,19
Behold, I am going to stir up the Medes against them, Who will not value silver or take pleasure in gold. And Babylon, the beauty of kingdoms, the glory of the Chaldeans’ pride, Will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

Jesus uses this same imagery when describing the Judgment of Israel
Matthew 24:29
But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken

Jesus also states the following to the scribes and Pharisees
Matthew 24:35-36
And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

Babylon, in revelation, is also charged with this:
Revelation 18:24
In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people, of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

**What we see here is the language used to describe Babylon's judgment in the OT, is similar to, if no the same, as the language used to describe Judgment on Israel. The Babylon of Revelation is unfaithful Old covenant Israel, that rejected Christ til her end.

What we see with those examples is the destruction of old Babylon being used as a blueprint for a dual fulfillment of the destruction upon the Revelation Babylon system at the end of this world when Jesus returns. This is why in Revelation the Isaiah 21 phrase about historical Babylon, i.e., "Babylon is fallen, is fallen", is repeated. This is why both Apostles Paul and Peter proclaimed the "day of the Lord" in connection with the very end of this world, and Peter proclaiming it's an event when God's consuming fire will burn man's works off this earth, a complete world changing event like the flood of Noah's day, except with fire this next time (2 Pet.3). Thus the Isaiah 13 section about the "day of the Lord" destruction is actually about the end of this world, as Peter and Paul showed, but it is used as a type for the old destruction of Babylon by the Medes there. Many Scriptures in the OT prophets jump timelines between past, present, and future, so just because the "day of the Lord" phrase is used there, it doesn't mean God literally rained fire down upon historical Babylon to destroy it. Instead only a similie is being used.

It absolutely is what Jesus said. To say it is not, is to completely ignore the previous chapter's context

Matthew 21: Parable of wicked tenants
1. Who are the wicked tenants? unfaithful old covenant Israel
2. What did they do? Killed the servants and vineyard ower's son
3. What happens to them? The vineyard owner comes and kills them
Matthew 22: Parable of the wedding feast
1. Who are the original wedding guests? Old covenant Israel
2. What did they do? Killed the servants of the King
3. What happens to the them? The king sends an army to kill them and burn their city
Matthew 23: Woes to the scribes and Pharisees
1. Who is Jesus talking to? Scribes and Pharisees, unfaithful Jerusalem
2. What does Jesus charge them with? Righteous blood shed
3. When would they be punished? during their generation

In all 3 cases, Jesus is talking about old covenant Israel, its sins, and its punishments that would come upon them during their generation. So the context of "this generation" is definitely the one during the time of Jesus and not a future one some 2000+ years later.


You cannot use Matthew 23 to try and explain Matthew 24. That is an error you folks often try to do, but it doesn't work. Matthew 23 was what Jesus said to unbelievers while in the temple. Matthew 24 is what Jesus said to His disciples while upon the Mount of Olives. Those are two separate conversations and sets of prophecies.

In Matthew 24, Jesus is giving the signs of Revelation 6, which is still... future to us even, because they are signs about the very end of this world which only the very last generation on earth will see, the last sign being that of Christ's second coming.

For you to interpret the signs in Matthew 24 and Revelation being about 70 A.D., it suggests you believe Jesus returned back in 70 A.D., which of course is a major error!
 
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Davy

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....
Matthew 21:40-41,45
Therefore, WHEN THE OWNER OF THE VINEYARD COMES, what will he do to those tenants?”

“He will bring those wretches to a wretched end
,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”

Jesus did NOT return in 70 A.D., nor at any time during the days of His Apostles, unless you count the 40 days right after His resurrection when He appeared to them before He ascended to The Father per Acts 1. Yet that period was not His second coming. Jesus' second coming has NOT happened yet to this day. Full Preterism is a doctrine of men, nothing more, it is not written in God's Word.


So you admit, that the wailing wall was not specifically a wall of the 2nd temple building itself.

So the prophecy of 'one stone not upon another' of the TEMPLE BUILDING was LITERALLY fulfilled in 70AD, as none of the stones of the TEMPLE BUILDING itself where left one on top another.

But not a part of the temple buildings, which is the only thing mentioned by jesus where the stones would not be one on top of the other after its destruction.

Could the disciples see the wailing wall from just outside the temple? Because Jesus only literally mentioned the buildings they could see.

Strange how you contradict yourself. You are admitting the Wailing Wall of huge stones in Jerusalem at the temple mount complex are still standing, yet you still want to say there's not one stone standing atop another there. In your mind maybe there's not one stone atop another there, yet if you go there you'll find the orthodox Jews very much involved in those stones still standing there. Obviously the Romans didn't do a complete job of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple complex, because they left that western wall of the temple complex still standing, showing the prophecy was not completed in 70 A.D.

Athiests use this same argument to disprove Christianity.

That of course is a totally irrelevant statement. The fact that the huge stones of the western wall of the 2nd temple complex are still standing today showing the Matt.24 prophecy was not completed by the Romans has nothing to do with any arguments to try and disprove Christianity. You are jeering away from the subject and getting into attempts at character assassination with that suggestive statement.

Well the disciples believed they were living at the "end of the world", I wonder why they thought that:

1 Corinthians 10:11
Now these things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the end of the world has come

And their disciples after them in later centuries thought the same thing. And many today think they are living in the final generation in the end of the world, which we very well might be since many prophecies are coming to pass just in this and the last century. See, that argument you raise there becomes totally irrelevant when you forget that Christ's Apostles did not live to see world events that we today have seen.
 
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Davy

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You misrepresented what I said. I did not say that Christ's people, the Jews, came to destroy the physical city and the temple. You totally misunderstood here.

Regardless of how you understood, to assign Jesus to being that Dan.9:26 "prince" of the people that destroys the city and sanctuary is to say that Jesus destroyed Jerusalem and the temple, when it was the Roman general Titus and his army that did that in 70 A.D.

Sorry. Does not make any sense.

I think you understood it alright. You just don't want to admit that the "prince" of the people that destroyed Jerusalem and the 2nd temple is not about Jesus Christ, but about the Roman general Titus and his army. Afterall, you did say this:

TribulationSigns said:
"You need to read verse 25. Messiah the prince! That is what the context about! God didn't talk about other prince here at all. Remember verse 24 is all about between God as Messiah the prince and His people Israel! That is what his covenant is all about! Fo his people,not for himself! Get it. You need to get the idea about evil prince, national Israel or man-made covenant out of your carnal mind."

That last statement of yours is suggesting that Jesus is that "prince" of Dan.9:26 who's people destroyed the city and the sanctuary. If you're going to try to make both of those examples of the "prince" in Dan.9 mean Jesus, then that is what you are suggesting, i.e., that Jesus destroyed Jerusalem and the temple. But He did not, the Romans did it. And leaving the Romans out of that fulfilled part of the Dan.9 prophecy who actually were the ones that destroyed the city and sanctuary, is... an example of a false doctrine of men.

Zecharich 14 was not talking about the destruction of the third temple, modern city of Jerusalem, or Christ physically touch down on Mount of Olives at Second Coming. It is about the First Coming and Christ established His Millennial Kingdom through the church under the feast of the tabernacle. I won't discuss this at this time as it is not part of Daniel 9 OP.

Zechariah 14 most definitely... is about the final day of this present world with Jesus' de facto literal return to the Mount of Olives where He ascended to Heaven from (Acts 1). The Zechariah 14 Scripture has still not happened yet today. Nor has Christ's Millennial reign begun yet today, for Satan is still... very active in the world today! It's foolishness to not be able to see that point today especially!

What are you talking about? Where did I say this?

Well, you did. When you said that paragraph I quoted you above.

By telling me to get any idea of an evil prince out of my carnal mind, that has to mean you believe the "prince" of Dan.9:26 is about Jesus too (when it is not; it's about Titus and his Roman army that destroyed Jerusalem and the 2nd temple).

And the "he" of Dan.9:27 grammatically follows the previous object in verse 26 which is that "prince" who destroys the city and sanctuary. Per that Dan.9:27 verse, that one makes a covenant for 7 years and breaks it in the middle and instead places the abomination that makes desolate, which is what the "vile person" of Dan.11 does.

So if you're going to say there's no evil "prince" in that Dan.9 prophecy, then you automatically apply both to Jesus, which wrongly suggests Jesus also is who makes that covenant of Dan.9:27 and Dan.11. It even wrongly suggests that Jesus is the "vile person" of Dan.11, since it's the vile person that does those things of Dan.9:27.

I do not think you really understand how Christ will cause the sacrifice to cease if this is what you were referring to in Daniel 9:27.

Nah, that doesn't work. You cannot just jump to the destruction of the temple with sacrifices ending when that's not even what the Daniel 9:27 prophecy is about.

Dan 9:26-27
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."
NIV
 
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Davy

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Here's your ludicrous, untrue, verifiable scripture and history.

There are two perspectives regarding the identity of the people of the prince Messiah, both scripturally and historically applicable and verifiable:

1. The pagan Roman armies under Titus, which were God's instruments of judgment and destruction. In similar fashion elsewhere, e.g. Jeremiah 43:10-13, God described the pagan Nebuchadnezzar, whom He chose as His instrument of judgment and destruction, as being "My servant." That would of course also include the armies under his control.

So JESUS is Who destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D.? Ludicrous, since it was the Roman general Titus and his army that destroyed Jerusalem and the 2nd temple.

Jesus pronouncing the prophecy to the unbelieving Jews that Jerusalem would be destroyed didn't mean He personally carried it out, regardless of the fact that Jesus is God. If you're going to interpret Bible prophecy that's been fulfilled, then you have to stick to the parameters of that prophecy. And Dan.9:26 about the "prince" there that destroyed Jerusalem and the temple is about Titus and his Roman army in 70 A.D., not Jesus.

2. The Jews themselves, whom Josephus documents as being responsible for an enormity of the suffering that occurred: "I shall therefore speak my mind here at once briefly; that neither did any other city ever suffer such miseries; nor did any age ever breed a generation more fruitful in wickedness than this was from the beginning of the world." Contemporary Jews concur:

"The scene was now set for the revolt's final catastrophe. Outside Jerusalem, Roman troops prepared to besiege the city; inside the city, the Jews were engaged in a suicidal civil war. In later generations, the rabbis hyperbolically declared that the revolt's failure, and the Temple's destruction, was due not to Roman military superiority but to causeless hatred (sinat khinam) among the Jews (Yoma 9b). While the Romans would have won the war in any case, the Jewish civil war both hastened their victory and immensely increased the casualties. One horrendous example: In expectation of a Roman siege, Jerusalem's Jews had stockpiled a supply of dry food that could have fed the city for many years. But one of the warring Zealot factions burned the entire supply, apparently hoping that destroying this "security blanket" would compel everyone to participate in the revolt. The starvation resulting from this mad act caused suffering as great as any the Romans inflicted.

And the prince was none other than, and only, Messiah.

Nor did the Jews destroy Jerusalem and the temple either, irregardless of their stupidity in the situation, and irregardless that Titus had planned to sieze the temple intact. You have to stick to the parameters of the Dan.9 prophecy, not bring in irrelevant arguments.
 
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jgr

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So JESUS is Who destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D.? Ludicrous, since it was the Roman general Titus and his army that destroyed Jerusalem and the 2nd temple.
Ludicrous that prince Messiah would use the Roman army to execute His judgment and destruction? Please reread and attempt to understand the post.

Nor did the Jews destroy Jerusalem and the temple either, irregardless of their stupidity in the situation, and irregardless that Titus had planned to sieze the temple intact. You have to stick to the parameters of the Dan.9 prophecy, not bring in irrelevant arguments.

So you understand Jewish history better than the Jews themselves understand their own history?

They acknowledge the scale of their own responsibility in their own destruction.

Why don't you?
 
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