Why is Christianity declining?

[Hawkins]

To me it is a result of systematic secular education since childhood. Humans, to a certain extent, are creatures of education especially on how you are educated subconsciously since childhood. Satan knows this better. So by planting something crucial to our own education system, humans going through this system will have to bear a mark on the forehead (mindset formed) and the right hand (resulted behavior). Humans after going through our secular education system will inevitably develop a spirit of fighting God and fighting religion in general.

This can be detailed below,

To a certain extent, both atheism and agnosticism are those being fooled by the devil with the term "evidence". To humans evidence is a delusion and the biggest stumbling block for their faith. They fallacious and mistakenly believe that humans should rely on evidence to get to a truth. That's what the devil would like them to fall for. In this very reality in contrary, humans (in majority) never rely on evidence to get to truth. Evidence only belongs to the eyewitnesses, the mass majority actually rely on faith in testimony to get to truth of any kind, including science. That's why 99.99% humans don't actually have the evidence of the existence of black holes. The existence of black holes is witnessed by the small group of humans known as the scientists and for other non-scientists to believe with faith.

Similarly in reality, we don't have the evidence on whether Trump or Biden (or any US president in history) actually won the majority votes. We rely on what the media told us and to put faith on what is said on who won the election. Humans are with limited capability, they don't have the capability to get to the evidence such as the votes each president actually got. Satan is to exploit the incapability of humans and to establish the delusion and lie that "you need evidence to tell a truth". Atheists and agnostics are those fooled by Satan with the fallacious token of reasoning that "you need evidence to get to a truth" which is an ideal lying outside the very capability of humans.

Satan is specialized in spotting human weaknesses and forming this kind of delusions for humans to fall for.

2 Corinthians 4:4
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

When using the Jewish style of writing in terms of God's absolute sovereignty;

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

 

[1Tonne]

Usually people are more interested in meeting the needs of their current situation, rather than worrying about what's going to happen to them after they die.

They are not concerned because Christians are not telling people that they are in deep trouble. Many Christians are apathetic towards the lost.

worrying about what's going to happen to them after they die. ........ making it the main point of the gospel seems contrary to the very practical way that Jesus conducted Himself.

Jesus spoke more of hell than He did of heaven. In fact Jesus said stuff like, "Fear not him who has power to kill your body and afterwards do no more but fear Him who has power to kill your body and destroy your soul in hell." or "If your eye is causing you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be thrown into fiery hell. Where the worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched." So, warning of what is going to happen after we die seems very consistent with what Jesus did. We should follow Jesus' example.

All of these things are important, but people are much more likely to respond when we engage with them where they are rather than shouting at them from on high.

You will notice in my last post I said, "We need to use wisdom when sharing the bad news and the good news." I never said that we should shout at people from on high. That was your presumption. Though maybe we should. If we look at Jesus, He climbed a mountain and then spoke to 5000 people, and I do not think he whispered his message. It says that we should shout it shout it from the rooftops. Paul also spoke to large numbers of people. And he said, "Imitate me as I imitate Christ." So, maybe we should be speaking up more.

There is an urgency, but do you really think God is going to run out of patience with someone who just needs a bit more time to accept the gospel?

150,000 people die every day. Their time just ran out today.

but there's also a need that is often more pressing for people to take the time and build meaningful human connections before lambasting the person with guilt trips.

It only takes me about 1 to 2 minutes to become close enough to them to be able to share the Gospel. We do not have to be best friends.
And don't get me wrong. I do go and make meaningful human connections and I help people. But this is just everyday life. As believers, we make friends and then we help them. But this is not sharing the Gospel. We need to say the Gospel. The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. We need to put more faith in the Gospel than we do in our good deeds. Our friendships are not the power of God unto salvation, and neither are our youth groups, Christian social groups, our actions, prayer groups or the church. Even our testimonies, if they do not have the Gospel, are not the power of God unto salvation. It is the Gospel that has power.
So yes, help people when you can but then say the Gospel.

But there's also a need that is often more pressing for people to take the time and build meaningful human connections before lambasting the person with guilt trips.

Do you think Jesus spent a lot of time with the rich young ruler before He lambasted the rich young ruler with guilt trips? Read Mark 10:17-22

 

[Fervent]

They are not concerned because Christians are not telling people that they are in deep trouble. Many Christians are apathetic towards the lost.

Or it's because heaven and hell are far off realities that simply don't intersect with their daily lives.

Jesus spoke more of hell than He did of heaven. In fact Jesus said stuff like, "Fear not him who has power to kill your body and afterwards do no more but fear Him who has power to kill your body and destroy your soul in hell." or "If your eye is causing you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be thrown into fiery hell. Where the worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched." So, warning of what is going to happen after we die seems very consistent with what Jesus did. We should follow Jesus' example.

I'm aware, though Jesus knew His audiences. He wasn't talking to people who are skeptical about the whole idea of life after death. He engaged with them on the basis of their culture. Again, I have no issue with giving warnings. It's that such preaching is often tone deaf and fails to meet people where they are.

You will notice in my last post I said, "We need to use wisdom when sharing the bad news and the good news." I never said that we should shout at people from on high. That was your presumption. Though maybe we should. If we look at Jesus, He spoke to 5000 people, and I do not think he whispered his message. It says that we should shout it shout it from the rooftops. Paul also spoke to large numbers of people. And he said, "Imitate me as I imitate Christ." So, maybe we should be speaking up more.

I seem to recall him feeding them. And my response is more based on my experience with street evangelists in general, rather than a critique of you in particular. Though I am suspicious considering you quoted Paul Washer as an example to follow.

150,000 people die every day. Their time ran out.

And? Do you think it caught God unaware?

It only takes me about 1 to 2 minutes to become close enough to them to be able to share the Gospel. We do not have to be best friends.
And don't get me wrong. I do go and make meaningful human connections and I help people. But this is just everyday life. As believers, we make friends and then we help them. But this is not sharing the Gospel. We need to say the Gospel. The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. We need to put more faith in the Gospel than we do in our good deeds. Our friendships are not the power of God unto salvation, and neither are our youth groups, Christian social groups, our actions, prayer groups or the church. Even our testimonies, if they do not have the Gospel, are not the power of God unto salvation. It is the Gospel that has power.
So yes, help people when you can but then say the Gospel.

We do need to share the gospel, but doing so involves far more than trotting out tired theological platitudes.

Do you think Jesus spent a lot of time with the rich young ruler before He lambasted the rich young ruler with guilt trips? Read Mark 10:17-22

The rich young ruler approached Jesus with a question, which Jesus answered. Jesus didn't preach at him out of the blue or ask crafty "gotcha" questions(I'm not saying you do this, but I've seen it done by a lot of street evangelists.)

 

[1Tonne]

Or it's because heaven and hell are far off realities that simply don't intersect with their daily lives.

Exactly. They do not intersect because we do not tell them of it.

It's that such preaching is often tone deaf and fails to meet people where they are.

Agreed. These people simply will not believe the Gospel. We are still to go and warn them in the hope that we save some. In the bible, it says that we "save some." Not all. "I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some" 1 Cor 9:22

I seem to recall him feeding them. And my response is more based on my experience with street evangelists in general, rather than a critique of you in particular. Though I am suspicious considering you quoted Paul Washer as an example to follow.

Yes. There was a need to feed them. That would not be very nice if he did not. Just like if I saw my neighbour in need but did not help. That would be wrong. But this is simply everyday life. We should help people. And even non-believers are nice to their neighbours.
But Jesus still spoke out loudly so that they may hear the message. We are to feed the hungry and clothe the poor. But if we simply do that and not warn them, then they will stay under God's condemnation. Do as Jesus did and then tell them the truth.
Also, I never said to follow Paul Washer. Lol. I only used one of his quotes in an earlier post. LOL.

And? Do you think it caught God unaware?

No. He knew that they had sinned against Him and that the penalty for sin is death.

We do need to share the gospel, but doing so involves far more than trotting out tired theological platitudes.

If you believe that sharing the Gospel is a" tired theological platitude", then that is your prerogative.

The rich young ruler approached Jesus with a question, which Jesus answered. Jesus didn't preach at him out of the blue or ask crafty "gotcha" questions(I'm not saying you do this, but I've seen it done by a lot of street evangelists.)

But Jesus did ask difficult questions of people. To show the woman at the well that she was an adulteress, He asked her to go and get her husband when He already knew she was one. So, he pushed the hot button.

Jesus didn't preach at him out of the blue

The Bible says to be ready in season and out of season. So, if you need to share the Gospel out of the blue, then go for it because it is always the right season.

 

[MForbes]

Folks are getting sick and tired of Christians mingling their faith with politics. The "Gospel of Trump" or "Book of Biden" is beginning to wear on people like me who don't want anything to do with the U.S. version of "Christianity".

Naw....you folks go ahead and march to church. Pay your tithe. Obey your "pastor" and vote the way he/she tells you Jesus would vote. I don't want a thing to do with it. I'll worship the Creator how I want. Oh, and by all means get out there, spread the gospel, and then brag about how many people you "saved" on this forum and the internet in general.

 

[1Tonne]

Oh, and by all means get out there, spread the gospel, and then brag about how many people you "saved" on this forum and the internet in general.

We are just told to preach the Gospel to as many people as possible then it is God who creates the growth. So, we can't save anyone. We do this though because we love our God, and it would be unloving to Him if we choose to disobey. Then, we speak here because we have a strong desire to encourage and equip others to do the same. You should try sharing the Gospel with the lost some time. You will find that your relationship with Him will grow as you do.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

We are just told to preach the Gospel to as many people as possible then it is God who creates the growth. So, we can't save anyone. We do this though because we love our God, and it would be unloving to Him if we choose to disobey. Then, we speak here because we have a strong desire to encourage and equip others to do the same. You should try sharing the Gospel with the lost some time. You will find that your relationship with Him will grow as you do.

1Tonne, if you were addressing Greeks on top of Mars Hill in ancient Athens (like Paul did in the Book of Acts), would your preaching include the same tropes and the same mindfulness of communication that Paul the Apostle used when he was there?

Or do you have some other person you use as a model for your preaching?

 

[Fervent]

Exactly. They do not intersect because we do not tell them of it.

They do not intersect because they are far-off concerns. When the gospel is presented as nothing more than promises about what happens after we die, it's easy to ignore because it becomes just another promise that may or may not be empty.

Agreed. These people simply will not believe the Gospel. We are still to go and warn them in the hope that we save some. In the bible, it says that we "save some." Not all. "I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some" 1 Cor 9:22

Notice how he says he has become all things to all men? Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm suggesting. We have to make sure we're engaging culturally in an authentic manner, not talking at people with our own understanding. Having conversations and being on the lookout for opportunities to share our perspective. My concern is not about going out and engaging people with the gospel in a thoughtful way, it's that often street evangelists fail to actually engage people and instead play silly power games that fall flat most of the time.

Yes. There was a need to feed them. That would not be very nice if he did not. Just like if I saw my neighbour in need but did not help. That would be wrong. But this is simply everyday life. We should help people. And even non-believers are nice to their neighbours.
But Jesus still spoke out loudly so that they may hear the message. We are to feed the hungry and clothe the poor. But if we simply do that and not warn them, then they will stay under God's condemnation. Do as Jesus did and then tell them the truth.
Also, I never said to follow Paul Washer. Lol. I only used one of his quotes in an earlier post. LOL.

The Paul Washer thing wasn't about his quote directly, more drawing on my experience from people who tend to be attracted to his style of preaching. But again, I have no issues with the idea of helping people understand their need for salvation. But doing so requires taking the time to understand them a bit through getting to know them. This can be a corporate thing to prepare us for public discourse, or more often it will be a matter of authentically engaging people who come our way in our day to day lives.

No. He knew that they had sinned against Him and that the penalty for sin is death.

If you believe that sharing the Gospel is a" tired theological platitude", then that is your prerogative.

Never said that, but the penal substitutionary model that many base their presentation of the gospel on certainly seems to be.

But Jesus did ask difficult questions of people. To show the woman at the well that she was an adulteress, He asked her to go and get her husband when He already knew she was one. So, he pushed the hot button.

There's a difference between asking thoughtful questions to make the gospel relevant and the kind of "gotcha" games that many street evangelists engage in.

The Bible says to be ready in season and out of season. So, if you need to share the Gospel out of the blue, then go for it because it is always the right season.

Yeah, and we definitely should be prepared to. If we live our lives with the hope that we hold, we'll live in a way that causes those around us to ask questions of us and want to have what we have. There also will be times when God will put someone in our paths who He has been preparing to receive the gospel, and we'll be prompted to do so in some way. Some are gifted to be evangelists in a distinct way and have the task of sharing the gospel in public forums and conversations with strangers, and the church should support them. But if the foot tried to do the job of the eye it wouldn't be very effective, and the eye shouldn't shame the foot for not being an eye.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Having grown up in fear-based end-times focused Christianity, I much prefer approaches about how to be a good and obedient disciple in the here and now as opposed to how to save myself in the end. It seems to me if we take care of the former, the latter takes care of itself. Just my opinion.

 

[BBAS 64]

Good day,

Maybe Jesus is near the completion of building His Church??

In Him

Bill

 

[1Tonne]

1Tonne, if you were addressing Greeks on top of Mars Hill in ancient Athens (like Paul did in the Book of Acts), would your preaching include the same tropes and the same mindfulness of communication that Paul the Apostle used when he was there?

Or do you have some other person you use as a model for your preaching?

Paul said imitate me as I imitate Christ. And there are many people today who also mimic Paul and Christ.
It seems as though you are dishonouring Jesus or the model He set out for us by using the word "tropes". But that is your prerogative.

They do not intersect because they are far-off concerns. When the gospel is presented as nothing more than promises about what happens after we die, it's easy to ignore because it becomes just another promise that may or may not be empty.

Many people that I have spoken to are very concerned about what happens after they die especially once I have shown them God's law. Some are not concerned, but that is their choice. Just because some are not concerned does not mean I would stop sharing the Gospel. I love God and I want to obey Him. Satan has blinded the eyes of those who do not believe.
If I simply wait for people to come and say to me, "I want what you have", then many will not hear.

Notice how he says he has become all things to all men?

I agree. Live life and get alongside people. Then if the opportunity comes up, share the Gospel. Friendship evangelism is simply a part of life. It is the easiest form of evangelism, but it is also the most apathetic.
In life, if you can stop someone from being killed or injured but you choose not to warn them, then in man's court, you are guilty of a crime called "Depraved Indifference". This shows that you have a blatant disregard for a person's life (apathy). It is like if you see a person drowning and you have a life jacket right beside you that you could easily throw to the person. But because you cannot be bothered, you choose not to throw the life jacket and the person then drowns. This is called “Depraved indifference”.
How would this man's family feel towards you knowing that you have done nothing? They would be intensely angry, and they would want you to be punished with the harshest of punishments.
If man's court recognises this injustice, how much more would a holy, and just God recognise the injustice of us not warning of eternal death?
James 4:17 says, "So for one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, for him it is sin." We know the right thing to do and if we do not do it, then it is a sin.

We have to make sure we're ...... not talking at people with our own understanding.

That is why the Holy Spirit was given. It was given to us so we would have boldness, clarity and power to share Christ's good news. The Holy Spirit gives us wisdom in each circumstance.

I have no issues with the idea of helping people understand their need for salvation. But doing so requires taking the time to understand them a bit through getting to know them.

Agreed. I spend about 2 minutes making a relationship so that I am then in a place to be able to share the Gospel. Many believers spend years doing this. If believers limit themselves only to friendship evangelism, this limits the amount the Gospel is said. That is why Jesus said, "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel". His words did not limit the message to only friends. In fact, there is not one biblical president where Jesus did friendship evangelism. That is, He never got alongside someone and became their friend and then waited until he thought the time was right for them to accept and then told them of the Kingdom of God. Instead, Jesus spoke very regularly about the things of God to many people. Even if they did not like it.

Never said that, but the penal substitutionary model that many base their presentation of the gospel on certainly seems to be.

So, you seem very knowledgeable about sharing the Gospel with the lost outside the church. You must share to many. Please tell me how often you share and how you do it. (The reason I ask is many believers will be critical, but they only tell the Gospel to very few. If any people, the Gospel.)

There's a difference between asking thoughtful questions to make the gospel relevant and the kind of "gotcha" games that many street evangelists engage in.

So, what do you mean by "gotcha games"? Please give an example.

If we live our lives with the hope that we hold, we'll live in a way that causes those around us to ask questions of us and want to have what we have.

I see many Christians do the same as you and I do not hear of many unbelievers coming and saying, "I want what you have." The reason for this is that many very good non-Christian people also do good things. I cannot see the difference between a Christian person who works in the Hospice and a nice unbeliever.
So, the question should be asked, how are our good deeds a witness?
Our actions do become our witness, and we can be either a good witness or a bad witness. If we do bad things, our word becomes compromised, and people will be less likely to believe what we say. The opposite of this is when we act in love, this will give our word credibility. For example, in a court of law, if you have 2 people with conflicting testimonies, one is a prostitute, and the other is a doctor. The doctor is the one most people would believe as his word is not compromised like the prostitute. He is a good witness.
So, your actions validate what you believe, and then when you do say the Gospel, people will be more likely to believe what you say.
But, we need to be careful that we do share the Gospel and are not simply nice people. Our good deeds are not the power of God unto salvation. Our good deeds only give our words credibility. Then when we say the Gospel, our word will have more substance and will not seem hollow.
So, staying silent is wrong.

QUOTE: If you know of everlasting life, and you know of everlasting death, how much do you have to hate somebody to not tell them of it? Penn Jillette

Some are gifted to be evangelists in a distinct way and have the task of sharing the gospel in public forums and conversations with strangers, and the church should support them. But if the foot tried to do the job of the eye it wouldn't be very effective, and the eye shouldn't shame the foot for not being an eye.

Now I understand why you are arguing so heavily for people to be friends before sharing the Gospel. You do not understand what the gift of evangelism is.
Many have used the "different giftings" as an excuse not to say the Gospel. They say, "I have not been given the gift of evangelism". But if we have a look at the gift of evangelism, it is not a special gift where a person can go out preaching and everyone will be saved. The gift of evangelism is an inward gift for the church so that the believers can be trained to go out and share the Gospel.
Ephesians 4:11-12 says, "So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up".
So, God gave these gifts (The fivefold ministries) to people so that they could equip the saints to be able to do the work of the ministry and build up the church. This means that a person with the gift of evangelism will not only go out and share the Gospel, as all of us should do, but he will also be able to teach others and encourage others to do so. The gift of evangelism is for the church. It is an inward gift to equip believers so that the believers can then go outward towards the lost.

Also, God did make us all different. Some he made to be ears, some he made to be hands, some he made to be a mouth and some he made to be feet.
If you are an ear, listen to people's problems and then tell them the Gospel.
If you are a hand, mow someone's lawn and weed their garden and then tell them the Gospel.
If you are a mouth, teach people and then tell them the Gospel.
If you are feet, walk to the parks or down the street and then tell people the Gospel.

We do have different giftings and abilities and with these, we should bring Glory to God. We should not use our gifts as an excuse not to give God glory.
I am a foot. I often choose to go to the parks and give God glory. Sometimes I am a hand and I share the Gospel. Sometimes I listen to people and then I tell the Gospel.

 

[Fervent]

So, what do you mean by "gotcha games"? Please give an example.

Your whole diatribe about "depraved indifference" would be one such silly little game, but usually the way I see it come up is with things like "Have you ever told a lie?" and when the person says yes "Well, then you're a liar." And along those lines. At this point there's not much benefit for us to continue to have a discussion, so thank you for the exchange and I wish you luck in your endeavors.

 

[1Tonne]

Your whole diatribe about "depraved indifference" would be one such silly little game, but usually the way I see it come up is with things like "Have you ever told a lie?" and when the person says yes "Well, then you're a liar." And along those lines. At this point there's not much benefit for us to continue to have a discussion, so thank you for the exchange and I wish you luck in your endeavors.

Please do not surrender so easily.

 

[Fervent]

Please do not surrender so easy.

Surrender? Nope, it's just clear at this point we're better off agreeing to disagree.

 

[1Tonne]

Surrender? Nope, it's just clear at this point we're better off agreeing to disagree.

Can you answer me this? You seem very knowledgeable about sharing the Gospel with the lost outside the church. You must share to many. Please tell me how often you share and how you do it.

 

[Fervent]

Can you answer me this? You seem very knowledgeable about sharing the Gospel with the lost outside the church. You must share to many. Please tell me how often you share and how you do it.

Your sincerity is quite touching.

 

[1Tonne]

Your sincerity is quite touching.

I thought so. Thank you for answering.

 

[Fervent]

I thought so. Thank you for answering.

Oh? You assume too much.

 

[1Tonne]

Oh? You assume too much.

Oh. Is my assumption wrong? Please tell me how often you share and how you do it.
The reason I ask is because some believers will discourage the sharing of the Gospel with as many people as possible as Jesus commanded. But then when asked about how many people they share with, most of the time, they do very, very little and often none. These people are hypocritical, and they impede the proclamation of the Gospel.

 

[Fervent]

Oh. Is my assumption wrong? Please tell me how often you share and how you do it.
The reason I ask is because some believers will discourage the sharing of the Gospel with as many people as possible as Jesus commanded. But then when asked about how many people they share with, most of the time, they do very, very little and often none. These people are hypocritical, and they impede the proclamation of the Gospel.

It is, but I see no reason to answer your question other than to say there is no one way I share the gospel. I talk to people and go about my business, seizing on opportunities as God sends people my way. As I've noted, I'm not trying to discourage you from sharing with as many as possible...I'm trying to encourage you to do it in a way that is sensitive to the needs of the people you are engaging with rather than simply talking at them. Too many street preachers have inauthentic interactions where they basically run through a script and people are too polite to just tell them to shove off, and many who are on the fence and would be receptive to a sincere discussion on religious matters are pushed away because of such interactions. By all means, go out and talk to as many people as possible if you've got the skills to do it.