Why is Christ not dead / in Hell

[yeshuaslavejeff]

"I protest"! (previous post) re the Latin.

I don't think it matters nor helps even what that Latin is - I don't see it in Scripture.

 

[Der Alte]

begin

<InkF>Okay, this is one that vexes me.
If the price of sin is either eternal death, or eternal suffering in the lake of fire (depending on which interpretation you go with), and Jesus paid the full price of sin, why then is Jesus not either:
1) eternally dead
2) waiting to go into the lake of fire for all eternity
If the price of sin is either eternal death, or eternal suffering in the lake of fire (as I said, depending on which interpretation you go with), and Jesus paid the FULL price of sin, he should then be in one of those two conditions.
The only reason I can think that he would not be in one of those conditions is if:
a) he did not pay the full price of sin but was let off part of the bill (cue track playing opening chords of O Fortuna)
b) The Father chooses to end the sentence of sin prematurely (which opens the gates to a potential universalism as regards salvation - ie: all end up being saved in the end)
It CANNOT be that Jesus gets a reduced sentence on account of being sinless, as that would mean he does not pay the FULL price of sin.
Thoughts?<end>

end

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.​

In your theology what happens after the period [.] which follows "Lord?" From what I have read so far it seems that you believe that death is the end, that nothing follows death. But scripture speaks about a resurrection and judgment. What I don't read is "The wages of sin is death, resurrection, judgement then death again."
.....What is your solution to all this? How do you resolve the perceived contradictions? My suggestion would be read every verse which addresses this issue, not just the few that you have alluded to.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

To clarify: Does anyone who reads this ,
anyone who (also - as a condition to reply) trusts Yahweh completely, and knows/believes His Word is Truth,
think that Yahweh lied about Jesus in any way ?

 

[EmSw]

*as prophesied:

"By his wounds, we were healed"
~Isaiah 53:5

So, the price we have to pay is to be wounded, but He was wounded for us?

 

[EmSw]

A perfect life. "A life for a life".

I don't think you will find a 'perfect life' for another life.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Either the full price of sin is eternal death/torture or not.

The penalty does not entail for Him what it entails for us - because He is so much more than us. A $1000 fine means something very different to pauper than it does to a billionaire.

 

[Landon Caeli]

So, the price we have to pay is to be wounded, but He was wounded for us?

No, It's not an 'even' transaction -it doesn't need to be. Jesus was a "reparation offering". Like a human sacrifice by God.

The worth of the crucifixion, where God sacrificed his only son, is beyond our knowledge. It's value is actually beyond measure, beyond "price"... Beyond anything, ever.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The penalty does not entail for Him what it entails for us - because He is so much more than us. A $1000 fine means something very different to pauper than it does to a billionaire.

This is close to the answer I think the OP is (hopefully) trying to find.

When the ETERNAL CREATOR UNCHANGEABLE UNCREATED ELOHIM (JESUS)
allowed Himself the sheer humility to be born a man in an ungrateful evil world,
that was more a supreme humiliation, humbling willing,
than anyone on earth can possibly imagine.

Then, when the ALMIGHTY ETERNAL CREATOR IMMUTABLE PERFECT ELOHIM (JESUS)
further
lays down His Life , His Perfect Life, Eternal without end past and future,
gives up the Spirit/breath at the crucifixion, "as a criminal!" ,

THAT is so much more forever, than if a million million times as many people died eternally for their own sins because the penalty for sin is death.....

Thus, Perfect Justice is Maintained as Yahweh Always Planned from Eternity to Eternity.

The BLOOD OF HE LAMB pays the price of atonement for our sins, for our redemption,
so we are PURCHASED WITH HIS BLOOD, perfectly and righteously in Yahweh's Plan.

Perfectly in every detail, exactly as Yahweh and Yahshua always PLANNED IN THEIR PURPOSE FOR SALVATION for the elect, and
Perfect in Justice condemning those eternally who reject Jesus.

 

[dreadnought]

Okay, this is one that vexes me.

If the price of sin is either eternal death, or eternal suffering in the lake of fire (depending on which interpretation you go with), and Jesus paid the full price of sin, why then is Jesus not either:

1) eternally dead

2) waiting to go into the lake of fire for all eternity

If the price of sin is either eternal death, or eternal suffering in the lake of fire (as I said, depending on which interpretation you go with), and Jesus paid the FULL price of sin, he should then be in one of those two conditions.



The only reason I can think that he would not be in one of those conditions is if:

a) he did not pay the full price of sin but was let off part of the bill (cue track playing opening chords of O Fortuna)

b) The Father chooses to end the sentence of sin prematurely (which opens the gates to a potential universalism as regards salvation - ie: all end up being saved in the end)

It CANNOT be that Jesus gets a reduced sentence on account of being sinless, as that would mean he does not pay the FULL price of sin.

Thoughts?

Who said that the price of sin is "eternal death or eternal suffering in the lake of fire"?

 

[marineimaging]

Okay, this is one that vexes me.

If the price of sin is either eternal death, or eternal suffering in the lake of fire (depending on which interpretation you go with), and Jesus paid the full price of sin, why then is Jesus not either:

1) eternally dead

2) waiting to go into the lake of fire for all eternity

If the price of sin is either eternal death, or eternal suffering in the lake of fire (as I said, depending on which interpretation you go with), and Jesus paid the FULL price of sin, he should then be in one of those two conditions.



The only reason I can think that he would not be in one of those conditions is if:

a) he did not pay the full price of sin but was let off part of the bill (cue track playing opening chords of O Fortuna)

b) The Father chooses to end the sentence of sin prematurely (which opens the gates to a potential universalism as regards salvation - ie: all end up being saved in the end)

It CANNOT be that Jesus gets a reduced sentence on account of being sinless, as that would mean he does not pay the FULL price of sin.

Thoughts?

Because Jesus took the sins of all mankind to hell. But that did not change the fact that he was sinless as the human Jesus. That is how he was able to take the sins of all mankind to hell and then be resurrected and ascend to the right hand of God.

 

[Kaon]

Okay, this is one that vexes me.

If the price of sin is either eternal death, or eternal suffering in the lake of fire (depending on which interpretation you go with), and Jesus paid the full price of sin, why then is Jesus not either:

1) eternally dead

2) waiting to go into the lake of fire for all eternity

If the price of sin is either eternal death, or eternal suffering in the lake of fire (as I said, depending on which interpretation you go with), and Jesus paid the FULL price of sin, he should then be in one of those two conditions.



The only reason I can think that he would not be in one of those conditions is if:

a) he did not pay the full price of sin but was let off part of the bill (cue track playing opening chords of O Fortuna)

b) The Father chooses to end the sentence of sin prematurely (which opens the gates to a potential universalism as regards salvation - ie: all end up being saved in the end)

It CANNOT be that Jesus gets a reduced sentence on account of being sinless, as that would mean he does not pay the FULL price of sin.

Thoughts?

Part of what is missing in the canon - Gnostics and/or apocrypha - is that there is even an election of people that will go to hell until they have come to truth, and realized their foolishness.

That may take aeons for some people, but as long as you are part of the Most High God's election from the foundations of the earth, you will (eventually) come out of chaos.


The Redeemer is Perfect as a man, even; He never had to come to truth because He is the Truth. However, as a Son of Man, He had to go to hell since His flesh was cursed.


Everyone that died before the Redeemer went to hell/chaos; it wasn't until the Redeemer actually contacted and awoke people in hell from their ignorance, and consequentially resurrected back to Life that souls that died began going to Judgment instead of chaos.


He paid the full price because as [the Word of] God, He humiliated Himself into human form, died by the hands of His creation, went to the place He prepared for the disobedient "angels". Keep in mind He owns everything ever. He paid more of a price than a human ignorant of their identity will pay in hell.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Part of what is missing in the canon - Gnostics and/or apocrypha - is that there is even an election of people that will go to hell until they have come to truth, and realized their foolishness.

That may take aeons for some people, but as long as you are part of the Most High God's election from the foundations of the earth, you will (eventually) come out of chaos.


The Redeemer is Perfect as a man, even; He never had to come to truth because He is the Truth. However, as a Son of Man, He had to go to hell since His flesh was cursed.


Everyone that died before the Redeemer went to hell/chaos; it wasn't until the Redeemer actually contacted and awoke people in hell from their ignorance, and consequentially resurrected back to Life that souls that died began going to Judgment instead of chaos.


He paid the full price because as [the Word of] God, He humiliated Himself into human form, died by the hands of His creation, went to the place He prepared for the disobedient "angels". Keep in mind He owns everything ever. He paid more of a price than a human ignorant of their identity will pay in hell.

This is all part and parcel, in whole or in part, totally false doctrine and false teaching that originated in babylon over a thousand years ago.

No one is redeemed AFTER they pass from this life, to the grave, period. Yahweh's Word never says otherwise, no never, not ever.

There is NO CHANCE AFTER the death of life and gone to the grave,
to repent and be saved. Anyone who says there is is a liar and a thief.

 

[Clint Edwards]

If Jesus paid the penalty of physical dying for us, why do we still die physically?

There are two deaths, the first is temporary, the second is permanent. Paul says those in their graves ¨have fallen asleep¨, they all will awake, they won´t awake if they die a second time.

 

[Clint Edwards]

Part of what is missing in the canon - Gnostics and/or apocrypha - is that there is even an election of people that will go to hell until they have come to truth, and realized their foolishness.

That may take aeons for some people, but as long as you are part of the Most High God's election from the foundations of the earth, you will (eventually) come out of chaos.


The Redeemer is Perfect as a man, even; He never had to come to truth because He is the Truth. However, as a Son of Man, He had to go to hell since His flesh was cursed.


Everyone that died before the Redeemer went to hell/chaos; it wasn't until the Redeemer actually contacted and awoke people in hell from their ignorance, and consequentially resurrected back to Life that souls that died began going to Judgment instead of chaos.


He paid the full price because as [the Word of] God, He humiliated Himself into human form, died by the hands of His creation, went to the place He prepared for the disobedient "angels". Keep in mind He owns everything ever. He paid more of a price than a human ignorant of their identity will pay in hell.

 

[Clint Edwards]

No, not at all . Please cite scripture to support this.

 

[Kaon]

No, not at all . Please cite scripture to support this.

I prefaced everything by stating this was not in the canon.

 

[Kaon]

This is all part and parcel, in whole or in part, totally false doctrine and false teaching that originated in babylon over a thousand years ago.

No one is redeemed AFTER they pass from this life, to the grave, period. Yahweh's Word never says otherwise, no never, not ever.

There is NO CHANCE AFTER the death of life and gone to the grave,
to repent and be saved. Anyone who says there is is a liar and a thief.

As I said, this is non-canonical.

Personally, I won't give my own opinion of the matter separate from what I put up because of the history of what has been the Church in the World - not just the West.

Whatever the Word of God says is the Truth. I put that bit up because this is the controversial theology forum. It wi be the first and last time.

 

[friend of]

The price for sin is eternal. If Jesus paid the price he has to do it eternally

Right, and Jesus is eternal being. Therefore whatever he pays is the right price.

 

[Sam91]

Because the sacrifice is the atonement. The dying part, the life blood. The old testament make this very clear.

The sins were placed on the animal and it was slain.

The sins were placed upon Jesus.

It doesn't say the animal the goes to hell.

Yes, I know the earlier sacrifices were a precursor to what Jesus was going to do.

 

[JojoM]

The price of sin is death. And if we die as sinners, we will be judged according to our deeds and we will be found guilty and must be punished eternally to obtain justice.

So first, our spirit gets cut off from God - death. and because of that our body decays - death. That’s the result of sin. That’s why before we die, we must be able to come into an arrangement so that we won’t need to be brought to the court where we will be found guilty and therefore be punished eternally.

Eternal death or punishment is therefore not the same as the death following sin. That is why even those that are saved must still die since their bodies are sinful.

However Jesus did not sin so He was not supposed to die. And because He did not sin, will not be found guilty in the court after death and therefore no eternal punishment.

Adam sinned and because of that everyone is born a sinner and are bound to die. Jesus is the second Adam and He did not sin but He was killed. Because He did not sin and yet He died, he cancelled what the first Adam did. 1-1 = 0. Now we are all back to zero. With free will, Adam disobeyed God and died and now with free will, we can choose to look to Jesus’ redemption and live again.
Everyone dies because Adam sinned and everyone consequently sinned. But now like Adam we all have a choice again whether to look to Christ’s salvation or not.

Romans 5 - 18. Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

The devil tempted Adam to sin so that Adam will die. He did not just slit Adam’s throat to kill him. But Jesus did not sin and yet the devil killed His body and shed His blood. Jesus’ body died but He cannot be held by death because He is sinless. Therefore Jesus rose again.

The wages of sin is death. That is why Jesus died and that alone is enough and all that is needed to cancel what the first Adam has done.