Why is Christ not dead / in Hell

[Inkfingers]

He conquered death, which has been said before. Meaning he didn't have to pay the full price.

No, that doesn't work.

The price is the price. You don't get to reduce it and then claim you are paying it.

The price for sin is eternal. If Jesus paid the price he has to do it eternally, or he hasn't actually paid the price at all.

 

[Landon Caeli]

SO HOW CAN YOU SAY HE PAID THE PRICE WHEN HE DID NOT?

There was no debt owed! He fulfilled the scriptures!

..It's not like the kind of "price" modern language uses. Think of it not as a debt, but as the fulfillment of the covenant.

 

[megan_26]

No, that doesn't work.

The price is the price. You don't get to reduce it and then claim you are paying it.

The price for sin is eternal. If Jesus paid the price he has to do it eternally, or he hasn't actually paid the price at all.

To conquer something is not to reduce it. It's to overcome it.
What answer would you like, exactly?

 

[Landon Caeli]

No, that doesn't work.

The price is the price. You don't get to reduce it and then claim you are paying it.

Your problem is that you are hanging on to the word "price" a little too passionately. It's not the only term used to describe this in the bible.

 

[συνείδησις]

The full price of sin is either endless death or endless torture (that being the price WE pay).

You're making the assumption that eternal death means physically dead forever. That is not so. Eternal death is separation from GOD forever while alive.

 

[Landon Caeli]

 

[Inkfingers]

To conquer something is not to reduce it. It's to overcome it.

It doesn't matter that he conquered death.

The price of sin is ETERNAL death / torture. That is the price people will still pay. If Jesus did not pay it he did not pay the price of sin - he paid only part of the price.....unless God intends to reduce the price for everyone (ie: Universalism).

What answer would you like, exactly?

I'd like people to address the question rather than try to change it in some way.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No, that doesn't work.

The price is the price. You don't get to reduce it and then claim you are paying it.

The price for sin is eternal. If Jesus paid the price he has to do it eternally, or he hasn't actually paid the price at all.

GOOD !

It seems you are steadily seeking for the truthful answer.

Is that right ?

 

[Inkfingers]

You're making the assumption that eternal death means physically dead forever. That is not so. Eternal death is separation from GOD forever while alive.

No, I'm allowing for it to be either eternally dead or eternally in the lake of fire - those are the price in scripture (depending on your interpretation as I said).

Jesus did NOT pay that price.

 

[megan_26]

It doesn't matter that he conquered death.

The price of sin is ETERNAL death / torture. That is the price people will still pay. If Jesus did not pay it he did not pay the price of sin - he paid only part of the price.....unless God intends to reduce the price for everyone (ie: Universalism).



I'd like people to address the question rather than try to change it in some way.

We're all trying to answer your question, we're not changing it. You just won't accept whatever anyone has to say.

If the price is eternal death and Jesus CONQUERED DEATH then we don't have to suffer eternal death as the price for sin.

 

[Landon Caeli]

GOOD !

It seems you are steadily seeking for the truthful answer.

Is that right ?

What!? No. Obviously not.

 

[Inkfingers]

GOOD !

It seems you are steadily seeking for the truthful answer.

Is that right ?

I'd like to think so.

What us your answer to my question?

 

[Inkfingers]

We're all trying to answer your question, we're not changing it. You just won't accept whatever anyone has to say.

If the price is eternal death and Jesus CONQUERED DEATH then we don't have to suffer eternal death as the price for sin.

No, that does not work. The price is the price. You don't get to change it unless it changes for ALL.

 

[megan_26]

No, that does not work. The price is the price. You don't get to change it unless it changes for ALL.

What are you not understanding? He did not change the price.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Jesus did NOT pay that price.

Let's not assume we know what a square deal is in terms of salvation.

 

[Landon Caeli]

No, that does not work. The price is the price. You don't get to change it

Says you.

...There is no set price that you have the knowledge of. Let' not pretend otherwise.

 

[Clint Edwards]

Okay, this is one that vexes me.

If the price of sin is either eternal death, or eternal suffering in the lake of fire (depending on which interpretation you go with), and Jesus paid the full price of sin, why then is Jesus not either:

1) eternally dead

2) waiting to go into the lake of fire for all eternity

If the price of sin is either eternal death, or eternal suffering in the lake of fire (as I said, depending on which interpretation you go with), and Jesus paid the FULL price of sin, he should then be in one of those two conditions.



The only reason I can think that he would not be in one of those conditions is if:

a) he did not pay the full price of sin but was let off part of the bill (cue track playing opening chords of O Fortuna)

b) The Father chooses to end the sentence of sin prematurely (which opens the gates to a potential universalism as regards salvation - ie: all end up being saved in the end)

It CANNOT be that Jesus gets a reduced sentence on account of being sinless, as that would mean he does not pay the FULL price of sin.

Thoughts?

First, death, the act of dying, is the penalty for sin. Any person deemed righteous by faith, is resurrected to eternal life.

Christ WAS righteous, not positionally viewed as righteous, and he died and was resurrected. He payed the penalty for all, death. Through his death and resurrection to life, we may suffer the first temporary death but are saved from the eternal one.

Those not saved by faith in Christś taking the sins of the world on himself and dying for them, thus ensuring victory over death in any form, will die forever.

 

[EmSw]

The full price of sin that we inherit from Adam is physical death. But we don't fear those who can only kill the body. What we fear is death of body and soul--the eternal second death. The eternal second death is the fate of those who will not have faith in Christ.

You are arguing that Jesus must suffer the eternal second death, but that was never case.

Then Jesus had nothing to do with keeping us from eternal death, right?

 

[EmSw]

First, death, the act of dying, is the penalty for sin. Any person deemed righteous by faith, is resurrected to eternal life.

Christ WAS righteous, not positionally viewed as righteous, and he died and was resurrected. He payed the penalty for all, death. Through his death and resurrection to life, we may suffer the first temporary death but are saved from the eternal one.

Those not saved by faith in Christś taking the sins of the world on himself and dying for them, thus ensuring victory over death in any form, will die forever.

If Jesus paid the penalty of physical dying for us, why do we still die physically?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I'd like to think so.

What us your answer to my question?

Do you agree that Yahweh (God) is uncreated, eternally self-existent (to use pitiful human english words trying to describe the in-describable great and wonderful and unmeasurable almighty CREATOR ! ) .....

And that Yahweh is Perfect in every way, Truthful, even if all men are liars ? (as written)

i.e. Those Truths from His Word. Do you believe and trust Him that those are TRUTH, unchangeable for eternity ?

 

[megan_26]

The Christian faith is based on whether or not Jesus paid for our sins. If you chose to believe that he didn't pay the full price, then we are doomed. But Jesus DID pay the price for our sins. We can argue all day but it comes down to faith. We cannot understand everything right now while we are on earth. So we either trust that we're saved, or we don't.