Why is Calvinism the only Protestant belief condemned in the Orthodox Church?

[Not David]

By condemned, I am referring to the Council of Jerusalem (1672).

 

[ArmyMatt]

because Calvinists used Orthodox as a common enemy against Rome. going so far as to forge a confession attributed to St Cyril Lukaris.

 

[Not David]

because Calvinists used Orthodox as a common enemy against Rome. going so far as to forge a confession attributed to St Cyril Lukaris.

Was it fake? I always heard that the Patriarch was involved in Calvinist beliefs.

 

[HTacianas]

By condemned, I am referring to the Council of Jerusalem (1672).

The Confession of Dositheus was written in response specifically to refute Calvin's teachings after some calvinist clergy forged documents to create the impression that the Patriarch of Constantinople supported them.

It's not only that Calvin's theology is repugnant to Christianity, but that they were wrongly using Orthodoxy in support of it.

The confession of Dositheus condemns Calvinism in blunt terms and refers to Calvin as "wicked".

 

[Not David]

The Confession of Dositheus was written in response specifically to refute Calvin's teachings after some calvinist clergy forged documents to create the impression that the Patriarch of Constantinople supported them.

It's not only that Calvin's theology is repugnant to Christianity, but that they were wrongly using Orthodoxy in support of it.

The confession of Dositheus condemns Calvinism in blunt terms and refers to Calvin as "wicked".

How were they using Orthodoxy?

 

[HTacianas]

How were they using Orthodoxy?

They were attempting to convince people that Calvinism basically always existed and that the Eastern Churches held the same beliefs.

 

[JohnB445]

I will admit Calvinism is a scary discovery.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Was it fake? I always heard that the Patriarch was involved in Calvinist beliefs.

it was. when the anathema to the so-called confession was pronounced, the bishops said they knew it was not from St Cyril's hand. plus, his other writings affirm his Orthodoxy.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I will admit Calvinism is a scary discovery.

Are you Orthodox?

I'm asking because I didn't know your faith background and have been praying for you..

knowing will be helpful perhaps..

 

[JohnB445]

Are you Orthodox?

I'm asking because I didn't know your faith background and have been praying for you..

knowing will be helpful perhaps..

You're prayers are working. I was surprised throughout the day I would feel my mind being renewed and fixed.

When it comes to which Church, I have been visiting every place, I have no clue where to go.

 

[Not David]

So a belief isn't condemned until it gets pretty close to the Church? I am just wondering since Anabaptism or Zwinglism hasn't been condemned.

 

[Hazelelponi]

You're prayers are working. I was surprised throughout the day I would feel my mind being renewed and fixed.

When it comes to which Church, I have been visiting every place, I have no clue where to go.

It's okay to be clueless. I think it's better to stick with some mainline churches. The very established denominations.

You can go Lutheran or Presbyterian, Episcopalian whatever. So long as it's a solid denomination for you to start.

I'm reformed Baptist (a Calvinist, hence why I read the thread to begin with) but there are so many different types of Baptist churches that I think its too difficult a denomination to try and wade through as a new believer, so I would suggest a PCA (Presbyterian) church instead if I were to suggest my faith group.

Since we are in the Orthodox forum I'd be remiss of I didn't mention them as well. They would be a fine church to start with, and give you a place of safety to learn more and grow in faith.

I just worry about you being on the internet. These debates aren't a good place to learn about Christ and to grow in the faith - and a beautiful faith it is but these debates and all these belief sets just become confusing.

And I think you need the least amount of confusion possible right now, so I'd like to see you in an established church in a community of believers in real life...

 

[ArmyMatt]

So a belief isn't condemned until it gets pretty close to the Church? I am just wondering since Anabaptism or Zwinglism hasn't been condemned.

condemnations only happen when errors start to lead the Orthodox astray.

 

[FireDragon76]

I find it convenient Cyril Lukaris was murdered. Almost like maybe some saw him as an embarrassment. He did indeed receive education in central Europe, so I don't find the idea he was a crypto-Calvinist far-fetched. Consider that prior to the end of the 17th century, before the Counter-Reformation, the Reformation had made inroads even into eastern Europe. At one time Romania was a country that had a sizeable percentage of Reformed and Unitarians, especially among upper classes.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I find it convenient Cyril Lukaris was murdered. Almost like maybe some saw him as an embarrassment. He did indeed receive education in central Europe, so I don't find the idea he was a crypto-Calvinist far-fetched. Consider that prior to the end of the 17th century, before the Counter-Reformation, the Reformation had made inroads even into eastern Europe. At one time Romania was a country that had a sizeable percentage of Reformed and Unitarians, especially among upper classes.

except his letters clearly show he was not a Calvinist. and the Synod which condemned his so-called confession, begins by saying they know he didn't write it.

 

[FireDragon76]

except his letters clearly show he was not a Calvinist. and the Synod which condemned his so-called confession, begins by saying they know he didn't write it.

Most secular historians do not agree with the hagiography surrounding him. Most mainstream histories I have read portray him as sympathetic to the Reformed church and he had good relations with several Reformed bodies, including Anglicans. In turn, the English and the Dutch treated him with respect. At the very least, it would be easy to spin that for political purposes, to accuse and assasinate him, and then hold a council to destroy his legacy.

 

[MariaJLM]

I'm guessing this is to do with the outright awful theology. It makes God seems evil and sadistic and Calvinism itself seems to create a lot of atheists. I know I sound harsh right now, but Calvinism is one of the only forms of Christianity I can say I utterly despise. I was anti-Christian for years and almost converted to Islam instead because of how some Calvinists treated me back when I was an atheist.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Most secular historians do not agree with the hagiography surrounding him. Most mainstream histories I have read portray him as sympathetic to the Reformed church and he had good relations with several Reformed bodies, including Anglicans. In turn, the English and the Dutch treated him with respect. At the very least, it would be easy to spin that for political purposes, to accuse and assasinate him, and then hold a council to destroy his legacy.

there is no doubt he was an ally against Rome. but it wasn't the Orthodox who assassinated him and he is a saint of the Orthodox Church. and again, the very council which condemns his so called confession, affirms him. I don't think that really falls under destroying his legacy.

 

[FireDragon76]

there is no doubt he was an ally against Rome. but it wasn't the Orthodox who assassinated him and he is a saint of the Orthodox Church. and again, the very council which condemns his so called confession, affirms him. I don't think that really falls under destroying his legacy.

In your church, you remember him as being martyred by the Sultan?

 

[FireDragon76]

I'm guessing this is to do with the outright awful theology. It makes God seems evil and sadistic and Calvinism itself seems to create a lot of atheists. I know I sound harsh right now, but Calvinism is one of the only forms of Christianity I can say I utterly despise. I was anti-Christian for years and almost converted to Islam instead because of how some Calvinists treated me back when I was an atheist.

I think classical Calvinism is very much wed to modernity, which is one reason it strikes postmodern people as odd, strange, and unrelatable. It's a difficult doctrine to preach in a post-Christian world.

Modern Presbyterians like Thomas Torrance have had much better relations with the Orthodox world and Orthodox theology.

 

[ArmyMatt]

In your church, you remember him as being martyred by the Sultan?

I believe it was at the instigation of the Sultan, but not by him.