Why is being prosperous and healthy considered wrong?

Do you think God wants us to be prosperous in every area of our lives???

  • Of course...it's His desire!

  • Naw, I think we ought to all be broke so we'll be humble!


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die2live

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No. You cannot say that every hardship is punishment from God. Often, suffering is the result of one's sin, but just as often it is not.
Is the little girl who was raped because she was a virgin at fault?
And once again, you ignore the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of Christians who are also suffering horribly from poverty, disease and malnourishment.
And even if these are judgments from God, that is not our right to say. We have no reason or responsibility to determine who is being judged and who is not.
 
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A Brother In Christ

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die2live said:
No. You cannot say that every hardship is punishment from God. Often, suffering is the result of one's sin, but just as often it is not.
Is the little girl who was raped because she was a virgin at fault?
And once again, you ignore the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of Christians who are also suffering horribly from poverty, disease and malnourishment.
And even if these are judgments from God, that is not our right to say. We have no reason or responsibility to determine who is being judged and who is not.

Or how Sodom and Gormorra tried to rape the angel that came to bring out lott and their family yet this righteous man offer his two young girls to the mobs of people that wanted the angels?

Yet even God said as they as the Angels just gets them out of the way of destruction they instruct them not to look back yet lots wife looks back in a soulish way of loss and became a pillar of salt...is this fair.. life is not fair.... but God is Good and rightous

So I can not look at history look at their life style...Rome and see romans 1 and how God just let there sinful lifestyle get more and more preverse


or if the city of New Orleans brags about how bad there red light district is... leting homo's doing it in public to things not so bad seeing boobs for beads

wonder why a huricane destoyed the city....

as for judging ....please read 1 cor 6

in the Old testament God call for you to kill your best friend if he tryied to lead you away from the path of the Lord... Duet 13:6/9

yet we are told to live differently
 
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A Brother In Christ

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die2live said:
And once again, you ignore the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of Christians who are also suffering horribly from poverty, disease and malnourishment.
.

and God's grace is not sufficant...

if you are lead to find believer and take care of them this is loving God

my question is are they God's. How do you know...
or are you going in blind to help your feeling of your soul

are you going to care for mormons?
they do not believe that Jesus is the one and only God but just a good man that they can become
 
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die2live

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It doesn't matter whether or not they are Christians. It's not like we can really know that anyway. Just like we can't know if they are being judged, or if God has a totally different reason for letting them suffer (maybe so that rich people like you and I can show Christian love to them and God will reveal himself to them through us. Kinda hard to do if we are sitting in several hundred thousand dollar homes and watching TV or anything else that will distract us from the truth.)
 
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nephilimiyr

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1 Timothy 6:17-19, Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment, Command them to do good, to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truely life.

Being prosperous is never condemned in the Bible. A person will be condemned if he loves his prosperity though.

1 Timothy 6:10, For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

It is possible to be rich in money and not have a love for it. If you are a good steward of what God has blessed you with then He will continue to bless you.
 
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A Brother In Christ

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die2live said:
It doesn't matter whether or not they are Christians. It's not like we can really know that anyway. Just like we can't know if they are being judged, or if God has a totally different reason for letting them suffer (maybe so that rich people like you and I can show Christian love to them and God will reveal himself to them through us. Kinda hard to do if we are sitting in several hundred thousand dollar homes and watching TV or anything else that will distract us from the truth.)

Just because I in my house with a TV does not mean I am not doing what God will is for me...

we have gone over this...


if helps is your gift ... you would be helping them put puzzle peices to gether so they can learn God word

if evanglism is your gift ..you are being spirit led to people that respond to the gospel and you would bring in new christian to teacher of the word..where the rest of the body could edify, admonish, exhort, and teach as 1 cor 12:6 brings out

was there christians there in all this... God know if you feel lead then Go

But you being lead to do one work... would be wrong for me since God got me to do something with my gift which is totally different than yours

I have been trying to add some wisdom to your excitement to serve

you can take it or leave it

I tryed to bribe some cousins to salvation by offering a cj-5 jeep if they would come to church.. they are still dope smokers with a cj-5

did I learn ..yes was it wrong most definitely hind sight...

What is your gift?
 
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A Brother In Christ

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die2live said:
It is certainly true that we each have our own gifts. But once again, you mistake gifts with commands. Helping the poor is a command. Not a gift.

you verses please

even christians without using God impowerment just think about themselves

phil 2:20-22
 
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A Brother In Christ

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die2live said:
It is certainly true that we each have our own gifts. But once again, you mistake gifts with commands. Helping the poor is a command. Not a gift.

john 13:34-35 if you love me you'll love the brethren....

who are considered rich in their position..phil 4:19

whether there are rich or poor of worldly goods
 
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JimfromOhio

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The keys about being prosperous

The Bible does not forbid the possession of wealth & being prosperous. If I have multiple cars, boats, acres of land, houses, all kinds of investments and other possessions, it takes a lot of time to make sure everything is secure and well taken care of. No time is left for God. Are possessions first in my life or God? Does the possessions OWN me? Do my possessions control my life?

Your view of money and material possessions is an effective barometer of your spirituality. Wealth is neither good nor bad in itself. What we do with our money God gives us is a reflection of your thinking. As Jesus said, "Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also" (Matthew 6:21). When we accumulate our possessions for our own selfish sake--those possessions have become idols. Idols when a Christian have a selfish heart of greed (name it, claim it) is your master. This means a Christian have put prosperous and wealth AHEAD of Jesus. Jesus is the Lord who says, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, let him deny Himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me" (Luke 9:23). To obey Him is to enjoy the fellowship of God and true believers, a fellowship of light (1 John 1:5-7).

A person's heart is always found running in the direction of his/her desires. The heart that desires often leads a person towards the wrong direction. Those who believed that God will not allow Christians to suffer are in big trouble and probably won't last. People view possessions as blessings from God and suffering is not part of a Christian's life. The Bible talks about "apathy" and "apostasy". Jesus and New Testament writers warned that there will be "Christians" who will reveal their true self whether they are a Christian or playing a Christian. From a book "Cost of Discipleship", Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s concept of "costly grace" has appealed to many who think it is the answer to the apathy and worldliness of contemporary (1930's) Christians. From reading Dietrich's book, which first published in English in 1949. He wrote: 'costly grace' as opposed to 'cheap grace,' which he described as 'Grace without price; grace without cost,' or "grace without discipleship.' To Bonhoeffer, costly grace is inseparable from discipleship. By the way, Bonhoeffer was hanged in the Nazi concentration camp at Flossenbürg on April 9, 1945.

My problem with preachers who teaches prosperous messages: that Christians are "entitled" to have wealth. That is obviously bad theology. Let's not be ignorant of the facts we see around the world. If Christians are entitled to be wealthy, there would NOT be any poor Christians. I steer away from preachers who focus on wealth and health because I want preachers who focus on Christ and salvation. If we are willing to be blind that there will always be some Christians around the world who are and will be "poor".

Look around, every local churches usually have people with common faith, with combination of poor, middle class and wealthy people. Just look at the bigger picture rather than looking at self with a question "why am I not wealthy?"

God have a purpose for every Christians and in reality, in the past 2005 years, there always combination of poor, middle class and wealthy people in local churches around the world. Look at Christian history books and read the Scriptures. Ask the Holy Spirit to help us to understand.
 
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JimfromOhio

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Posts regarding "helping" the poor within the local church. There are two areas we need to focus on.

1. Spiritual Gifts... there will be those who have a spiritual gift of stewardship.. God will use them to share their spiritual gifts (skills) within the local church.

2. Commandment: to love one another within the local church. If there is a member in your local church have a "need", members of the local church are commanded by Christ to help.

There are SOME (NOT all) Christians who are wealthy are ignorant of their own spiritual gifts and actually blinded by pride and greed to help. Spiritual ignorance is a bigger problem within a local church. People will ignore the issues and willing to be ignorant Scripturely. There are Christians who are focusing on "me" while God wants us to be humble and stop playing ignorance by "doing" something with their gifts recieved from Him.
 
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A Brother In Christ

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JimfromOhio said:
There are SOME (NOT all) Christians who are wealthy are ignorant of their own spiritual gifts and actually blinded by pride and greed to help. Spiritual ignorance is a bigger problem within a local church. People will ignore the issues and willing to be ignorant Scripturely. There are Christians who are focusing on "me" while God wants us to be humble and stop playing ignorance by "doing" something with their gifts recieved from Him.

what does 2 cor 9:7

not grudgingly or of necessity....

other wise the wrong motive and keep it God does not want it...
 
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JimfromOhio

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Reading the whole thread saddens me. Its very sad to see Christians who are struggling financially criticizing the wealthy by looking at them. Criticizing means envying.

Proverbs 14:30
A heart at peace gives life to the body, but envy rots the bones.

1 Corinthians 13:4
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy.

Galatians 5:26
Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

Be careful how we judge the wealthy because ONLY God knows which wealthy Christians do give more. We can't. We cannot judge people by the "cover".

Also, we can't just look at "one verse" to justify to tell the wealthy that they have to give more. We need to look at ALL verses in the Bible and look at a bigger picture. Nowhere in the New Testament that the wealthy are ordered to give more than others. In the Old Testament, people are told to "tithe". New Testament teaches that those who are rich are to give for charitable uses through the local church first and then other sources. If we are rich and use our wealth for other reasons, our holy living sacrifices will not be accepted by God. So...if we are wealthy.. we are to use our money wisely and use God's stewardship guidelines... and finally give back to God through Godly ministries.

As an accountant, I discovered reading that from Christian stewardship books that Jesus said more about money than anybody else in the Bible, and He said more about money than any other single subject. Money is an index to a person's character.

1. A person's character who is wealthy who worship "money".
2. A person's character who is not wealthy envying those who are wealthy and criticizing their wealth.

Through out the Bible, from Old Testament all the way through the New Testament, the Bible is clear that we are not to love (covet) money because the love (covet) of money is the root of all kinds of evil. We're not to make money our god. We are to worship the true God. We are not to put our trust in money.

Nothing wrong for being wealthy.... at the same time, Christians are accountable and should spent wisely and maintain godly stewardship. Christians are to be careful how they manage their funds. Any Christians who covets will fall. Any Christians who do not covet will be very successful and this member of a local church will also be successful!!

I was mentioning in my previous post with 9 verses. I wanted to added other Scripture verses but there is no room and this would be too long.

2 Corinthians 9:6-15
Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. As it is written:
"He has scattered abroad his gifts to the poor; his righteousness endures forever."
Now he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness. You will be made rich in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result in thanksgiving to God. This service that you perform is not only supplying the needs of God's people but is also overflowing in many expressions of thanks to God. Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, men will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else. And in their prayers for you their hearts will go out to you, because of the surpassing grace God has given you. Thanks be to God for his indescribable gift!

Stewardship and tithing are hot subjects today and Christians seem to love to debate them. People did not want to take responsibility for what God’s Word said, or what stewardship really means in applying it to their wallets. Emotions and personal Will blocked reason and Scripture. Beware of your motives. Do not give because you expect to get! If He does give back to you, it is because of your motive, your heart! Or, He may let the devil give to you, but watch out, because you may have nothing in the hereafter! Jesus says, Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap... (Luke 6:38) Maybe God will give all of your money back plus ten times. Maybe He wants you in poverty as He lived; maybe He wants you rich.

I am not rich, I was struggling financially for awhile and now I am below middle class. I have some relatives who are very very wealthy. I know some friends who are very wealthy as well. I have seen what they do with their money behind the scene where people don't see. Like most wealthy (Christians) often give money "quietly" which means they do not want anyone to know. They prefer NOT to boast.
 
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A Brother In Christ

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die2live said:
Not for the first time, I quote Luke 12:33, 1 John 3:17 and hold up the example of the early believers in Acts.

Luke 12:33 so if a believer is doing this ... and he happens to become rich ..isn't it a gift from God like any thing and this man would be the steward of this money

1 john 3:17... I see a lot of people that need better teaching of the word of God... not food or money in this country

to a brother in Christ...not a fellow human on this earth

we are not of this world.. 1 peter 2:11


2 thes For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should they eat...

and if working with hands eph 4:28 he can give to those graciously that shouldn't eat
 
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die2live

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Lots of people do work. Mothers work alongside their husbands just to provide money, leaving the vast majority of household chores to the children. Poverty does not come from lack of work.
In this country, there are certainly more people that need better teaching. And those in poverty need teaching in addition to food and water and shelter. And if we had to choose between teaching the word of God and providing for physical needs, obviously we would choose sharing the word of God. But we don't have to make that choice as we have the ability and the responsibility to do both.
If a believer gets rich, that all the more money that can be given to people who need it, after he provides for his own needs so he will not become a burden himself.
 
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A Brother In Christ

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die2live said:
Lots of people do work. Mothers work alongside their husbands just to provide money, leaving the vast majority of household chores to the children. Poverty does not come from lack of work.
In this country, there are certainly more people that need better teaching.
there are no poor in this country !!!

you need to go third world girl ..like Mexico City...they are poor
Are country pours money toward education ...
But people can lead people to water but cannot force them to drink....
education/work/Christ

In this country one can get free Health care/ food/housing/ Car Higher education from the government...what is there excuss

And those in poverty need teaching in addition to food and water and shelter. And if we had to choose between teaching the word of God and providing for physical needs, obviously we would choose sharing the word of God. But we don't have to make that choice as we have the ability and the responsibility to do both.
If a believer gets rich, that all the more money that can be given to people who need it, after he provides for his own needs so he will not become a burden himself.

If the Spirit lead you to give to People looking for a hand out..go head
hopefully you will not be let down...

when they come back asking for more after they gambled it away/drank/ drugs/ getting christmas gifts for the family then they say I have no money for my bills???

WHY DOESN"T GOD GIVE ALL CHRISTIANS ENOUGH MONEY TO TAKE CARE OF THE POOR? If this is God's will...we would have enough...
 
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die2live

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A Brother In Christ said:
there are no poor in this country !!!

you need to go third world girl ..like Mexico City...they are poor
Are country pours money toward education ...
But people can lead people to water but cannot force them to drink....
education/work/Christ

In this country one can get free Health care/ food/housing/ Car Higher education from the government...what is there excuss

I was not referring to people in this country. I agree that there is no reason for begging for money.
I was referring to the third world, who does need our gifts, both physical and spiritual.



A Brother In Christ said:
If the Spirit lead you to give to People looking for a hand out..go head
hopefully you will not be let down...

when they come back asking for more after they gambled it away/drank/ drugs/ getting christmas gifts for the family then they say I have no money for my bills???

Some people would certainly do that, I am sure. But not the majority of people who really need it.

A Brother In Christ said:
WHY DOESN"T GOD GIVE ALL CHRISTIANS ENOUGH MONEY TO TAKE CARE OF THE POOR? If this is God's will...we would have enough...

I can't claim to know the mind of God . . . but my guess is that the answer to that question would be because most people would use it on new cars and bigger houses rather than on gifts to the poor.
 
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A Brother In Christ

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die2live said:
I was not referring to people in this country. I agree that there is no reason for begging for money.
I was referring to the third world, who does need our gifts, both physical and spiritual.
there is a lot of spiritual needs in this country

even though a lot of people are wealthy they are very poor spiritually
Some people would certainly do that, I am sure. But not the majority of people who really need it.
why do you think they are poor in the country ..
some people are lazy
some people cannot divide needs vs wants
I can't claim to know the mind of God . . . but my guess is that the answer to that question would be because most people would use it on new cars and bigger houses rather than on gifts to the poor.


Do you come from a wealthy ,middle income or poor back ground

.some but I think God uses situations to make people grow

which means they need bad circumstances to rise above it.

1 cor 1:26 ....not many noble[well born] are called

Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.



yet if a christian is wanting money ..God promises more trials..
yet 1 cor 10:13 is still promised
 
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die2live

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A Brother In Christ said:
there is a lot of spiritual needs in this country

even though a lot of people are wealthy they are very poor spiritually
why do you think they are poor in the country ..
some people are lazy
some people cannot divide needs vs wants

I agree. In this country, the only "needs" are spiritual. That is not to say that it is wrong to go to a soup kitchen and feed the homeless for a night. That is certainly Christlike. But if the whole world was like our country. There would be no need for Jesus' command in Luke 12:33. I don't think Jesus would have given it if that were the case because he would not be concerned with our world's physical needs. Rather, he would have addressed their needs of spiritual things.
Unfortunately, the whole world is not like our country.
 
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