Why, in God’s plan of redemption, must Christ be both God and man at the same time?

[thaiv]

Its time to put something orthodox in the unorthodox section to clear up some confusion. Many people in this forum are confused to whether Christ is human, divine or both. According to the pure revelation of the Bible, Christ is God (John 1:1, Heb. 1:8) as well as man. Sometimes Scripture is not good enough for some people so I will expound by presenting this truth in a different way. I have always known that Christ is both God and man. It also has helped me to know why Christ possesses this dual nature.

In the following excerpt from Questions on the Gospel, Watchman Nee expounds on why Christ is both God and man:

Suppose there are three persons: A, B, and C. Person C has sinned, and A asks B to die for C. This would show that A has love toward C, and that C has answered the requirements of the law; however, this is rather unjust to B. I sinned, and God caused Christ to die for me. Although this shows God’s love and although I meet the requirements of the law, this is rather unjust to Christ. Only when Christ is both God and man is this just.

First, we need to know what forgiveness is. Forgiveness means that the one who forgives takes the loss upon himself. It means that the forgiver is suffering the loss of the forgiven one. The loss is on the side of the one who forgives. For instance, if someone owes you ten dollars, and you forgive him, we can say that you bore the loss since you suffered the loss of ten dollars.

In God’s plan of redemption, Christ should not be a third party. If Christ is a third party, then God is unrighteous toward Him because He has no sin and does not deserve to die. The Bible tells us that man has sinned and that God is the One whom man has sinned against. The relationship here is a two-party relationship between God and man. Asking a third party to die in a substitutionary way may, perhaps, satisfy God’s righteousness, and it may meet the law’s demand on man, but this is rather unrighteous for the third party. It is righteous only because Christ is both God and man.

Micah 6:6 and 7 say, “With what shall I come before Jehovah / And bow myself before the high God? / Shall I come before Him with burnt offerings, / With one-year-old calves? /Will Jehovah be pleased with thousands of rams, / With tens of thousands of rivers of oil? / Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, / The fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?” These verses say that when we have sinned against God, not only is an offering of rams of no avail, all the sacrifices are of no value. Even offering up our own offspring is of no avail. In order for Christ to not be a third party, He must be God since He Himself is the One being offended. The work of propitiation for sins is righteous only because Christ is God. Conversely, since the work of propitiation for sins is righteous, Christ must be God because only the one who is offended can forgive the one who offends. Who can say forgiveness is unrighteous? Christ is God; He is the offended One and, therefore, He can forgive men.

Romans 7:10 says, “And the commandment, which was unto life, this very commandment was found to me to be unto death.” Romans 6:23 says, “For the wages of sin is death.” These verses show us that a person has to fully keep the law in order to live; otherwise he must die. In order for the Lord to make us live, He had to suffer the penalty of sin; He had to die. However, 1 Timothy 6:16 says that God alone has immortality. Therefore, Christ must also be a man in order to die for us. He had to take a body upon Himself so that He could die for us. He is God; this makes His salvation of men righteous. He is a man; this makes His salvation of men possible.

I hope this helps to confirm that Jesus Christ is both God and man.

 

[LogicalFallacy]

Hi, if Jesus was both God and man when he died for our sins then that would infact nullify the rasom and Almighty God would have to start over, and provide another ransom!!!

 

[zeontes]

Its time to put something orthodox in the unorthodox section to clear up some confusion. Many people in this forum are confused to whether Christ is human, divine or both. According to the pure revelation of the Bible, Christ is God (John 1:1, Heb. 1:8) as well as man.

I believe that Jesus Christ is a perfect man, not a common man. He is far above the rest of mankind in that he flawlessly carried out the will of God. God raised him from the dead. The Word did not die on the Cross, Jesus did. The Word is eternal, the Word is as much God as God is His Word. This repudiates the claim that John 1:1 is talking about Jesus, the man born of Mary. In those rare moments when I speak and act in Christ's stead that does not make me the one who died on the Cross, even though I am the Word during those rare incidents. Jesus lived each moment as the Word in the flesh, but yet he had his own will to live and sought God for a way around the Crucifixtion three times. But that was not possible, so God's will was done by the choice of our Saviour, not by the demand of God.

Suppose there are three persons: A, B, and C. Person C has sinned, and A asks B to die for C. This would show that A has love toward C, and that C has answered the requirements of the law; however, this is rather unjust to B. I sinned, and God caused Christ to die for me. Although this shows God’s love and although I meet the requirements of the law, this is rather unjust to Christ. Only when Christ is both God and man is this just.

First, we need to know what forgiveness is. Forgiveness means that the one who forgives takes the loss upon himself. It means that the forgiver is suffering the loss of the forgiven one. The loss is on the side of the one who forgives. For instance, if someone owes you ten dollars, and you forgive him, we can say that you bore the loss since you suffered the loss of ten dollars..

Justice demanded that a perfect man pay the price for the sin of a perfect man. In Adam (by one man's offence) all died, in Christ (by one man's obedience) all shall be made alive. God forgave man for Adam's failure and returned to man all that Adam lost. That which Adam lost will be returned to us as our inheritance, the token of which is the gift of holy spirit. What did it cost God? It cost God the life of His Only Begotten Son.

You can debate if you want to, that God did not loose anything in the crucifixtion, but I do not feel that I could stand the humiliation, torture, and death of my only Son for your benefit or anyone elses. God most definitely gave and keeps giving for us, bending over backwards to help us to walk uprightly.

What Adam did was unjust, what happened to Jesus was unjust, that is why it is payment.

In God’s plan of redemption, Christ should not be a third party. If Christ is a third party, then God is unrighteous toward Him because He has no sin and does not deserve to die. The Bible tells us that man has sinned and that God is the One whom man has sinned against. The relationship here is a two-party relationship between God and man. Asking a third party to die in a substitutionary way may, perhaps, satisfy God’s righteousness, and it may meet the law’s demand on man, but this is rather unrighteous for the third party. It is righteous only because Christ is both God and man.

No, it is righteous because there are only two parties, God and man. There is no third party.

Micah 6:6 and 7 say, “With what shall I come before Jehovah / And bow myself before the high God? / Shall I come before Him with burnt offerings, / With one-year-old calves? /Will Jehovah be pleased with thousands of rams, / With tens of thousands of rivers of oil? / Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, / The fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?” These verses say that when we have sinned against God, not only is an offering of rams of no avail, all the sacrifices are of no value. Even offering up our own offspring is of no avail. In order for Christ to not be a third party, He must be God since He Himself is the One being offended. The work of propitiation for sins is righteous only because Christ is God. Conversely, since the work of propitiation for sins is righteous, Christ must be God because only the one who is offended can forgive the one who offends. Who can say forgiveness is unrighteous? Christ is God; He is the offended One and, therefore, He can forgive men.

The issue is more than about forgiveness, it is also about redemption. It isn't God that owned us, but rather that God bought us back, a payment was made to the one who legally owned us.

Romans 7:10 says, “And the commandment, which was unto life, this very commandment was found to me to be unto death.” Romans 6:23 says, “For the wages of sin is death.” These verses show us that a person has to fully keep the law in order to live; otherwise he must die. In order for the Lord to make us live, He had to suffer the penalty of sin; He had to die. However, 1 Timothy 6:16 says that God alone has immortality. Therefore, Christ must also be a man in order to die for us. He had to take a body upon Himself so that He could die for us. He is God; this makes His salvation of men righteous. He is a man; this makes His salvation of men possible.

I hope this helps to confirm that Jesus Christ is both God and man.

Christ had no sin, therefore no penalty of sin. Yet, in order for us to be saved, he had to die to pay the price for mankind's redemption.

No disrespect intended by any of my comments. I know that you are trying to help, but in my struggle for an understanding of the trinity all I have come up with is that it makes much more sense for Jesus Christ to remain as the Bible call's him, the Son of God. A man approved of God. That claim would not be worthy if he were God, it would also be kind of odd. No one would say thaiv was approved of thaiv, it would be axiomatic, proving nothing. But to say that thaiv was approved of God would be a wondrous complement, proving much.