Why I will not buy a Ford

imind · Sep 6, 2007

ford doesn't support homosexual sex, silly people. there is a difference between supporting the sexual act, and making sure these people are taken care of as well as other people are. i think it entirely unchristian to deny gay people the same privileges heterosexuals are granted as far as health care, etc. is concerned.

you are doing nothing to separate these couples by denying them these privileges beyond denying them these privileges, as gay couples will be together regardless, and you don't have to support their being together to allow them these benefits.

TheDag · Sep 11, 2007

I wish I could find the old thread that listed all these things that christians have basically said nothing about but then objected to when it comes to a gay pride parade. The list was long. If you are going to boycott then make sure you do it for all not just when it comes to gays. I personally don't think much of boycotts although i found it funny how Kraft was forced to start making a product that was losing them money again when Australians boycotted them for no longer making Vegemite.

TheFathersDaughter · Sep 11, 2007

dpartlow said:
OK folks - let me pose this one to you.

Is 'boycotting' porn acceptable?

How about 'boycotting' investments in porn companies?

How many of you know how much of the porn stocks/bonds/loans are held in your 401ks?

What if a porn company wanted to issue a new bond to finance a major marketing campaign - would you invest in it? Would your investment make you complicit? Why or why not?

That doesn't even work. You boycott when you disapprove of a company's methods. Too boycott a porn company is basically ASKING them to go out of the business since that is what their business is. I don't hold stock though, nor plan on it, so I can answer that last one.

But not buying the stocks for a company and screaming "I don't like what you're doing with your money" in their ear are two completely separate things.

dies-l · Sep 11, 2007

dpartlow said:
OK folks - let me pose this one to you.

Is 'boycotting' porn acceptable?

How about 'boycotting' investments in porn companies?

How many of you know how much of the porn stocks/bonds/loans are held in your 401ks?

What if a porn company wanted to issue a new bond to finance a major marketing campaign - would you invest in it? Would your investment make you complicit? Why or why not?

I personally will not knowingly and willingly support any producer or purveyor of hardcore pornography. But, this is completely different than your proposed boycott of Fort et al. My reason for "boycotting" porn producers is that I do not support their reason for being in business (i.e., making porn). On the other hand, I don't have any serious moral issues with Ford's reason for being in business (i.e., making crappy automobiles). The difference is that porn is an inherently immoral product and cars are not (unless, perhaps, you are a hardcore environmentalist). Another difference is that porn producers, in creating their product, engage in evil conduct. On the other hand, Ford et al. merely respect the decisions of other people which some people find to be morally objectionable. It is a hugely meaningful difference, and one that, for me, justifies one boycott but not the other. Just my opinion.

Gwenyfur · Sep 11, 2007

ParsonJefferson said:
That's kinda what I was thinking, except that I was going to just make a general, "Ford sucks!" statement.

on a quiet night, I can hear my neighbor's fords rusting

dpartlow · Oct 3, 2007

By paying for homosexual programming, advertisements, and rallies it is absolutely supporting this iniquity.

It is one of the biggest sponsors of 'Pride' events whose purpose is to spread the falsehood that homosexuality is perfectly normal. Well the Bible says it's not.

If you want to disagree that homosexuality is unbiblical - then there is a different forum for that, but I don't see how you can say that Ford's actions don't constitute support for Homosexuality when they are clearly one of the major promotors.

wiggsfly · Oct 4, 2007

I wouldn't by ford, gm, or chrysler a they are garbage cars.

I love my VW though!

TheFathersDaughter · Oct 5, 2007

No one is denying Ford is supporting homosexuality.

We're saying it's stupid to boycott it because of it.

dpartlow · Oct 5, 2007

TheFathersDaughter said:
No one is denying Ford is supporting homosexuality.

We're saying it's stupid to boycott it because of it.

Actually TFD, "imind" did make that assertion:

imind said:
ford doesn't support homosexual sex, silly people...

You mayen't be compelled to boycott Ford - that's your choice. But many people do not want to be a part of it, and it is having a huge impact. Though GM seems to be on the path to recovery, Ford seems doomed. (Although the recent devaluation of the dollar will probably forestall its inevitable bankrupcy).

Nissan, which is the only large company which is truly neutral on the issue, continues to gain (even against Toyota).

It's obvious that consumer taste has something to do with it, but it only goes so far.

dpartlow · Oct 5, 2007

Dies3l said:
I personally will not knowingly and willingly support any producer or purveyor of hardcore pornography. But, this is completely different than your proposed boycott of Fort et al. My reason for "boycotting" porn producers is that I do not support their reason for being in business (i.e., making porn). On the other hand, I don't have any serious moral issues with Ford's reason for being in business (i.e., making crappy automobiles). The difference is that porn is an inherently immoral product and cars are not (unless, perhaps, you are a hardcore environmentalist). Another difference is that porn producers, in creating their product, engage in evil conduct. On the other hand, Ford et al. merely respect the decisions of other people which some people find to be morally objectionable. It is a hugely meaningful difference, and one that, for me, justifies one boycott but not the other. Just my opinion.

Its not a proposed boycott - it is ongoing. And it is having a huge (but largely unreported) effect.

AFA.NET Reports that over 1m Americans have pledged not to buy a Ford on moral grounds (not simply because they don't like the cars) - that's a really significant number.

SemperFidelis · Oct 5, 2007

dpartlow said:
Its not a proposed boycott - it is ongoing. And it is having a huge (but largely unreported) effect.

AFA.NET Reports that over 1m Americans have pledged not to buy a Ford on moral grounds (not simply because they don't like the cars) - that's a really significant number.

I dunno, I mean its really a tiny proportion of the US's population, and the figure is made even smaller by the fact that many of those people probably wouldn't have bought a Ford anyway.

Just my opinions

Blessings,

Steve

ReformedChapin · Oct 5, 2007

I work for Sempra.

I can't really avoid it since they are the gas providors for Southern California. It's really hard to avoid or switch utilities if it's the only one that provides survice to your area. That's besides the fact that they are government reguled so I'm sure they are puished to support many unbiblical causes because of it.

dies-l · Oct 6, 2007

SemperFidelis said:
I dunno, I mean its really a tiny proportion of the US's population, and the figure is made even smaller by the fact that many of those people probably wouldn't have bought a Ford anyway.

Just my opinions

Blessings,

Steve

Additionally, we should also compare that number to the number of people who are more likely to buy a Ford "on moral grounds" in support of the same human rights issues as those opposed by certain bigoted Christians. I don't know the numbers, but, seriously, Ford wouldn't do anything that resembled taking a stand on an issue if it wasn't (at least potentially) profitable for them to do so. So, in the end, we have 1 million people who refuse to buy a Ford on "moral grounds", who probably wouldn't have bought one anyway. And then you have a certain number of people (probably significant) who will consider buying a Ford on similar moral grounds, even though, had these people considered only traditional factors like value and quality, they would like have never purchased a Ford. Sounds like a good deal for Ford to me.

TheDag · Oct 6, 2007

at the end of the day companies sponser things if they think it will help them make more money. If the boycott was having a real impact then they would stop sponsoring these events.

dpartlow · Oct 11, 2007

TheDag said:
at the end of the day companies sponser things if they think it will help them make more money. If the boycott was having a real impact then they would stop sponsoring these events.

It's not about being successful in making companies change course, its about obedience.

I can't say I expect companies to all change, I just don't want to share in their deeds - which I would (in a small way) if I were their consumer/investor.

Ave Maria · Oct 11, 2007

I also will not buy a Ford (not that I can) and so I signed the boycott thing as well. I simply cannot support Ford's support of the homosexual agenda.

dies-l · Oct 11, 2007

dpartlow said:
It's not about being successful in making companies change course, its about obedience.

I can't say I expect companies to all change, I just don't want to share in their deeds - which I would (in a small way) if I were their consumer/investor.

So, the Bible says "boycott Ford"? What book is that in? What chapter and verse? I can't seem to find it.

Or is it that you feel led by God somehow? If this is the case, I can't discount that, other than to say that what He has told you is not the same what He has told me. So please don't be offended when I say that I am not going to join your little boycott, simply because God told you that you should.

dpartlow · Oct 11, 2007

Dies3l said:
So, the Bible says "boycott Ford"? What book is that in? What chapter and verse? I can't seem to find it.

Or is it that you feel led by God somehow? If this is the case, I can't discount that, other than to say that what He has told you is not the same what He has told me. So please don't be offended when I say that I am not going to join your little boycott, simply because God told you that you should.

1st Corinthians 5

We are told to boycott (not consume - same thing) that which is the product of apostacy (idol meat - or in the modern context - products of companies which are contributing to societal apostacy/delinquancy - like Ford)

Paul goes on to explain (chapter 10) that it is not the act of eating meat which is sinful (just as driving a Ford in and of itself is not sinful), but it is association with the heresy, even though it is indirect, which is to be avoided.

The real motivation in Paul's writing is not leading others away from righteousness. Since Ford has cast it's lot with organizations that are leading people away from righteousness, I will cast my lot (and my transportation budget) with an automotive company which has not. To do otherwise only strengthens an organization and a cause which is out of line with the teaching of Christ.

Candide · Oct 12, 2007

I still don't get it. How can people boycott Ford for contributing to our horrible society or whatever, and not boycott every company that uses sweatshops, or cheap foreign labor? How can they not boycott Wal-Mart, Starbucks, McDonalds and all of the other mega corporations that are making this world a more horrible place to live (by biblical standards) every day? Why are we worried about homosexuality more than poverty? That makes no sense to me. How many versus in the Bible deal with homosexuality, and how many deal with the poor?

Seriously.

TheDag · Oct 12, 2007

dpartlow said:
It's not about being successful in making companies change course, its about obedience.

I can't say I expect companies to all change, I just don't want to share in their deeds - which I would (in a small way) if I were their consumer/investor.

This comment should be directed at all the others who have been boasting about how it is making an impact and saying it is about making financial impact.

dpartlow said:
1st Corinthians 5

We are told to boycott (not consume - same thing) that which is the product of apostacy (idol meat - or in the modern context - products of companies which are contributing to societal apostacy/delinquancy - like Ford)

Thats not how I read the passage. I see it as saying for those inside the church (that is those who claim to be christians) we should judge them for their behaviour. If there is wrong doing they refuse to repent of then kick them out of the church. However those who are outside the church (that is non-christians) we are not to judge. So 1 corinthians 5 is clearly directed at believers and interacting with fellow believers. It has nothing to do with what you claim

dpartlow said:
Paul goes on to explain (chapter 10) that it is not the act of eating meat which is sinful (just as driving a Ford in and of itself is not sinful), but it is association with the heresy, even though it is indirect, which is to be avoided.

He actually says there is nothing wrong with eating the meat. It is only if someone else objects that you shouldn't do it out of consideration to them. In any case the meat offered to idols is different to driving a ford.

dpartlow said:
The real motivation in Paul's writing is not leading others away from righteousness. Since Ford has cast it's lot with organizations that are leading people away from righteousness, I will cast my lot (and my transportation budget) with an automotive company which has not. To do otherwise only strengthens an organization and a cause which is out of line with the teaching of Christ.

I notice that the ads ford runs here in Australia suggest they aren't going for the homosexual market but rather testosterone filled male market.

Why I will not buy a Ford

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