Why I don't believe in Calvinism.

[Dave L]

Interesting you use a verse that says your faith is dead if you don't do works as a verse.

But you say faith is from you. Scripture says is is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Not David]

But you say faith is from you. Scripture says is is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Believers can have the fruits of the Holy Spirit yet they can choose to rely on their passions, that's why one should pray to God to help them with their disbelief.

 

[Dave L]

Believers can have the fruits of the Holy Spirit yet they can choose to rely on their passions, that's why one should pray to God to help them with their disbelief.

But this is after salvation.

 

[Not David]

But this is after salvation.

Sure, it does not contradicts what I said.

 

[Dave L]

Sure, it does not contradicts what I said.

But if you must choose, you save yourself and rob God of his glory.

 

[fhansen]

In short, I don't believe in Calvinism because I see free will is taught in the Bible.
We are given commands, and men have disobeyed them not because God wanted them to, but because they chose to disobey. Also, why have a judgment if God was the one who placed them there and they had no choice to be there?

I agree. And the way the church has historically understood this is that we cannot turn to God on our own-for that we need grace. But we can resist and refuse that grace-we can refuse to turn to Him, or, once turned to God we can still always turn back away, back to sin at any step down the road. That's where the will comes into play, where we can say "no" to God just as Adam did originally.

We're here to come to learn the foolishness of Adam's choice so that we can reverse it within ourselves-freely with the help of grace. And that explains human history and the way God has patiently worked with man since the Fall, guiding man back to Himself. This makes no sense if God's intent is to simply stock heaven with the elect and hell with the reprobate anyway, without reference to our wills.

 

[Not David]

But if you must choose, you save yourself and rob God of his glory.

Well, it's either you and your perspective on what "God's glory" is or what the Bible, the Church, and 2000 years of tradition says.
In the same way, I reject modernist concept of "love", I reject the medieval concept of "honor" ascribed to God in Western Theology.

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

So you hold to no theological wording that describes what you believe?
Do you believe in the Trinity?
If so, you are Trinitarian.
Do you believe in the Bible alone as your spiritual authority?
If so, then you are Sola Scriptura.
Do you believe in no view of hell?
Most Christians believe in Eternal Conscious Torment.
I do not. I believe there is a literal hell, but I believe that the wicked, death, the devil, and his minions will be eventually erased from existence (after the Judgment) within the Lake of Fire. But to mock terms that describe a belief is illogical (Unless again, you can prove why it is wrong to do so - of course).

Anyways, there is a theological term for just about everything a Christian believes these days. So to adhere to a theological word (that describes a belief) does not mean we have messed up as a part of humanity (Unless you want to prove otherwise of course). It merely means that man is keeping track of which beliefs are which so as to distinguish between them. Some are biblical and others are not. You have to pray and search the Scriptures and determine that truth for yourself.

I had just never seen so many strung together like that but I get what your saying.... I don’t have any way to prove certainty on pretty much anything so you got me there.... but we have to admit it’s kind of nuts to have to categorize in so many ways. The simple fact that we must distinguish our self as this type of Christian vs this type of Christian is actually pretty scary to me.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I had just never seen so many strung together like that but I get what your saying.... I don’t have any way to prove certainty on pretty much anything so you got me there.... but we have to admit it’s kind of nuts to have to categorize in so many ways. The simple fact that we must distinguish our self as this type of Christian vs this type of Christian is actually pretty scary to me.

Study God's Word more, and study up on the different theology words that are out there, and you will maybe see where I am coming from, friend. Again, it is not wrong to label a belief so as to identify it. Not all Christians believe the same thing, and not all of their beliefs are biblical or good.

 

[SaintCody777]

Calvinists love to tout about their assurance of salvation. Some Arminians, Pentecostals, and Holiness Christians will claim that Calvinism leads to eternal security for loose living, directly or indirectly. But the truth is, Calvinism actually creates more uncertainty of one's assurance of salvation. That's because no matter how a Calvinist's heart is now or whether he has examined himself for salvation at a PARTICULAR MOMENT, there is no knowing whether if and when he will abandon the faith, become a witch, inquire in Native American Spirituality, humanism, agnosticism, etc. The Calvinist does not know that he may do these things tomorrow or next year. He does not know whether he will die living a holy life or become backslid-den. That's the only way for Calvinists to know that they are saved. So there's a Domacles' Sword constantly swinging upon a Calvinist as long as he lives. The sick thing is, that John Calvin said that God takes pleasure in making some people think they are genuine Christians for a while but God didn't really elect them as evidenced by falling away later.
Arminianism actually gives me real assurance of my salvation because I know when I am in and I know when I'm out.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I agree. And the way the church has historically understood this is that we cannot turn to God on our own-for that we need grace. But we can resist and refuse that grace-we can refuse to turn to Him, or, once turned to God we can still always turn back away, back to sin at any step down the road. That's where the will comes into play, where we can say "no" to God just as Adam did originally.

We're here to come to learn the foolishness of Adam's choice so that we can reverse it within ourselves-freely with the help of grace. And that explains human history and the way God has patiently worked with man since the Fall, guiding man back to Himself. This makes no sense if God's intent is to simply stock heaven with the elect and hell with the reprobate anyway, without reference to our wills.

I agree. Well said.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

In short, I don't believe in Calvinism because I see free will is taught in the Bible.
We are given commands, and men have disobeyed them not because God wanted them to, but because they chose to disobey. Also, why have a judgment if God was the one who placed them there and they had no choice to be there?

I find Paul appealing and Calvin appalling.

 

[PaulCyp1]

I don't believe in any Protestant denomination because Jesus Christ founded ONE Church, said it was to remain ONE, and promised the leadership of that ONE Church "The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth", and "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me". His plainly stated will concerning His followers was and still is "That they all may be ONE, even as I and My heavenly Father are ONE" (which obviously means NO conflicting beliefs, NO contradictory teachings, NO denominations). Today that ONE Church remains ONE in belief, ONE in teaching, ONE in worship, ONE in biblical understanding, teaching the fullness of truth throughout the world after 2,000 years, while those who have defected from His Church have fragmented into thousands of conflicting denominations teaching thousands of contradictory beliefs, in just a few hundred years. Truth cannot conflict with truth, so obviously a great deal of untruth is being taught. You just can't beat God's plan.

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

Study God's Word more, and study up on the different theology words that are out there, and you will maybe see where I am coming from, friend. Again, it is not wrong to label a belief so as to identify it. Not all Christians believe the same thing, and not all of their beliefs are biblical or good.

lol at “not all Christians believe the same thing”..... that makes me uncomfortable just thinking about it. Non believers would have a field day with that statement.

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

I don't believe in any Protestant denomination because Jesus Christ founded ONE Church, said it was to remain ONE, and promised the leadership of that ONE Church "The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth", and "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me". His plainly stated will concerning His followers was and still is "That they all may be ONE, even as I and My heavenly Father are ONE" (which obviously means NO conflicting beliefs, NO contradictory teachings, NO denominations). Today that ONE Church remains ONE in belief, ONE in teaching, ONE in worship, ONE in biblical understanding, teaching the fullness of truth throughout the world after 2,000 years, while those who have defected from His Church have fragmented into thousands of conflicting denominations teaching thousands of contradictory beliefs, in just a few hundred years. Truth cannot conflict with truth, so obviously a great deal of untruth is being taught. You just can't beat God's plan.

It’s possible to be wrong for 2000 years too. I’ve never even seen the word pope in the Bible either. I guess that another place we say “it’s an implied” or “assumed”..... both of which aren’t good enough when it comes to God for me. Either I know for certain or I don’t know at all.

 

[Dave L]

Well, it's either you and your perspective on what "God's glory" is or what the Bible, the Church, and 2000 years of tradition says.
In the same way, I reject modernist concept of "love", I reject the medieval concept of "honor" ascribed to God in Western Theology.

Unless you are dead and unresponsive to God. And unless he brings you to life in the new birth, you get 1/2 of his glory in salvation helping him to complete the task.

 

[NoahSK]

Calvinists love to tout about their assurance of salvation. Some Arminians, Pentecostals, and Holiness Christians will claim that Calvinism leads to eternal security for loose living, directly or indirectly. But the truth is, Calvinism actually creates more uncertainty of one's assurance of salvation. That's because no matter how a Calvinist's heart is now or whether he has examined himself for salvation at a PARTICULAR MOMENT, there is no knowing whether if and when he will abandon the faith, become a witch, inquire in Native American Spirituality, humanism, agnosticism, etc. The Calvinist does not know that he may do these things tomorrow or next year. He does not know whether he will die living a holy life or become backslid-den. That's the only way for Calvinists to know that they are saved. So there's a Domacles' Sword constantly swinging upon a Calvinist as long as he lives. The sick thing is, that John Calvin said that God takes pleasure in making some people think they are genuine Christians for a while but God didn't really elect them as evidenced by falling away later.
Arminianism actually gives me real assurance of my salvation because I know when I am in and I know when I'm out.

He really said that? Can you give the exact quote and link the source? This would make God to be a deceiver.

 

[Not David]

Calvinists love to tout about their assurance of salvation. Some Arminians, Pentecostals, and Holiness Christians will claim that Calvinism leads to eternal security for loose living, directly or indirectly. But the truth is, Calvinism actually creates more uncertainty of one's assurance of salvation. That's because no matter how a Calvinist's heart is now or whether he has examined himself for salvation at a PARTICULAR MOMENT, there is no knowing whether if and when he will abandon the faith, become a witch, inquire in Native American Spirituality, humanism, agnosticism, etc. The Calvinist does not know that he may do these things tomorrow or next year. He does not know whether he will die living a holy life or become backslid-den. That's the only way for Calvinists to know that they are saved. So there's a Domacles' Sword constantly swinging upon a Calvinist as long as he lives. The sick thing is, that John Calvin said that God takes pleasure in making some people think they are genuine Christians for a while but God didn't really elect them as evidenced by falling away later.
Arminianism actually gives me real assurance of my salvation because I know when I am in and I know when I'm out.

True, all Calvinists will say they are part of the elect until one of them fall and then they say "they were never real Christians".

 

[Not David]

Unless you are dead and unresponsive to God. And unless he brings you to life in the new birth, you get 1/2 of his glory in salvation helping him to complete the task.

You can keep saying that, but that won't make it biblical.

 

[Not David]

lol at “not all Christians believe the same thing”..... that makes me uncomfortable just thinking about it. Non believers would have a field day with that statement.

That's one reason I became Orthodox.