Why I Don't Believe In Atheism's Creation Myth

[Doveaman]

Doveaman:

It must be nice to be 'special'.

It's not my fault.

 

[driewerf]

Of course there is silly.

Is there anyone who came back to tell you?

 

[AV1611VET]

Let me get this straight; you believe in annihilation of the unregenerate after they die -- is that correct?

Yes. That is true.

--- Will you admit that the AV1611 King James, 5th edition, Scofield Reference Bible has the unregenerate going to Hell?

 

[Doveaman]

So, he metes out justice according to what, then?

According to His own standard.

If I hire you to do a job according to my own standard and you didn't do it according to my own standard, then I am entitled to fire you according to my own standard.

 

[driewerf]

According to His own standard.

If I hire you to do a job according to my own standard and you didn't do it according to my own standard, then I am entitled to fire you according to my own standard.

If you hire me it means we agreed on the contract. A contract I can accept, refuse or negotiate the terms. Your god didn't offer me any contract, didn't give me the opportunity to negotiate etc.

Nontheless, if i don't live accordingt to his standards, I'll be cast in that imaginary hell.

So, your metaphore isn't correct.

 

[Mobiosity]

--- Will you admit that the AV1611 King James, 5th edition, Scofield Reference Bible has the unregenerate going to Hell?

According to Revelation 20:14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Hell and death go into the lake of fire. When folks go in there, they cease to exist. According to Revelation 20:10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Only Satan, the Beast and the False Prophet will suffer eternally in the lake of fire.

 

[Doveaman]

Interesting theology.

Yes, I know, it often leads to questions like the one below.

How can your god curse someone to hell when it is himself who gives or does not give that sixth sense?

That's a very good question, one that I often ask myself as well. I think it has to do with God knowing who will wisely use the sixth sense when given and who will reject it if given:

"Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces." - Matt 7:6.

Since dogs and swines will only trample on the sixth sense and try to tear God to pieces despite having the sixth sense, then it makes no sense giving the sixth sense to dogs and swines.

Since dogs and swines have no interest in what God has to offer, then God's response to dogs and swines is simply "to hell with them!". Hell is for those who have no interest in what God has to offer.

"All day long I have stretched out My hands to an obstinate people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations — a people who continually provoke Me to My very face" - Isa 65:2-3.

When we are blinded by our own imaginations we tend not to be aware of God's outstretched hands, and often times when we do become aware of His outstretched hands we trample on them and try to tear God to pieces.

 

[Doveaman]

If you hire me it means we agreed on the contract. A contract I can accept, refuse or negotiate the terms. Your god didn't offer me any contract, didn't give me the opportunity to negotiate etc.

Yeah, well, tell that to God when you see Him.

"All day long I have stretched out My hands to an obstinate people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations — a people who continually provoke Me to My very face" - Isa 65:2-3.

 

[DDdreamer]

The only proof I have is that there were many who witnessed Jesus' death and resurrection and died very painful deaths for saying that it happened. Why would they be willing to suffer so much for a lie?

Because they believed it to be true of course! Doesn't mean it WAS true to begin with. Anyway, these eyewitnesses are mentioned only in the bible, correct? You still haven't shown any evidence that the bible is an accurate source of info. Again, I don't particularly like to take stuff at face value.

He is omnipotent. I disagree that He'd convince everyone. There will always be someone who doubts their own senses. There will be others who refuse to have someone, even God, tell them what to do. There will be others who'd rather die than serve in heaven.

Then that's not really omnipotence, now is it? An omnipotent being that can't do a certain thing isn't omnipotent.

My assumption was that you'd examined the evidence around you and decided it wasn't sufficient.

Your assumption is correct. I still didn't mean it as "I want this god to do something flashy to prove its existance".

The amazing things God has done, the way things fit together. The intricacies of the human body. Bees, oxygen, crops things that couldn't have happened without God's guidance or intervention.

How do you know that it could not happen without divine intervention? It seems entirely possible to me that this complexity arose without the intervention of a god or other supernatural being.

And I'd prefer to be rich, brilliant and perfect.

Bah, perfection is overrated

Marcus



@Doveaman:
Sixth sense? Can you prove that such a thing exists to begin with? I also want your thoughts on why we swedes seem to lack this "sixth sense" seeing as 85% of all swedes are atheists. Is it a negative mutation brought on by evolution perchance? .

 

[AV1611VET]

According to Revelation 20:14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Hell and death go into the lake of fire. When folks go in there, they cease to exist. According to Revelation 20:10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Only Satan, the Beast and the False Prophet will suffer eternally in the lake of fire.

Jesus said every one shall be salted with fire?

Mark 9:49a For every one shall be salted with fire,

Do you know what that means?

 

[Honkytnkmn]

So, the Lake Of Fire I am often threatened with in this forum doesn't actually exist?

It may have resembled a Lake of Fire to John. But do I think Hell is physical torture. No. Its deeper and more painful.

Then your analogy is flawed. It ignores properties of god that that would nullify your analogy, thus they are are not comparable

Everyone sins. It has nothing do with sin. you sin. do you think your going to hell?

Of course I sinned and still do, from time to time, but no I'm not going to hell because I accepted the gift of Christ.

--- from The Atheist Experience
you have a being according to your theology that can possibly prevent people from having to suffer eternally and instead of being god and just and caring and actually doing that is instead offering a kind of bribe

The bribe is you need to believe without evidence and you need to worship and adhere and follow my commands.

There is plenty of evidence. You choose to ignore it.

Romans 1:20 - For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen being understood through what has been made so that they are without excuse.

Did your god create hell?

yes.

Does your god create the rules of the universe according t o the criteria for which souls are judged?

Kinda, anything against God cannot be with Him.

Does anything happened that doesn't go according to your gods will?

It is not Gods will that we sin. It wasn't Gods will for Satan to go against him. It was Gods will to allow free choice.

If you answered yes, yes and no then your god is ultimately responsible for everything including the people who are sent to hell.
---

i guess you forgot to read the first part of the bible huh? Love and compassion are not words i would use to describe that. Love and Compassion are things that do not require a god.

Nope, didn't forget to read the first part. I've read the entire Bible cover to cover.

 

[Cabal]

Jesus said every one shall be salted with fire?

Mark 9:49a For every one shall be salted with fire,

Do you know what that means?

"a-salted with fire"?



...



I'll get me coat.

 

[sandwiches]

According to His own standard.

If I hire you to do a job according to my own standard and you didn't do it according to my own standard, then I am entitled to fire you according to my own standard.

So, if god sent the standard, why doesn't he change the punishment (death in a fiery hell) to something more humane? Even our society is more ethical than this deity of yours. We usually try to rehabilitate most people and not just kill them outright. And when we do kill them, we usually do it in a quick and painless way.

Now, as to the second part of your post, as Driewerf said, I didn't sign any contract. I didn't agree to be created just to end up in hell.

A better analogy would be slavery. You force someone to work for you, you make them follow rules they never agreed to, and when they disobey, you punish them harshly and painfully.

 

[sandwiches]

The only proof I have is that there were many who witnessed Jesus' death and resurrection and died very painful deaths for saying that it happened. Why would they be willing to suffer so much for a lie?

You mean like countless other cults and religions have had martyrs die for their faith? Why aren't you Muslim, then?

He is omnipotent. I disagree that He'd convince everyone. There will always be someone who doubts their own senses. There will be others who refuse to have someone, even God, tell them what to do. There will be others who'd rather die than serve in heaven.

If he's omnipotent, he knows what would convince every single person.

My assumption was that you'd examined the evidence around you and decided it wasn't sufficient.

There is no intersubjectively verifiable evidence for the existence of a deity.

The amazing things God has done, the way things fit together. The intricacies of the human body. Bees, oxygen, crops things that couldn't have happened without God's guidance or intervention.

Mere baseless assertions.

And I'd prefer to be rich, brilliant and perfect.

Why doesn't your god appeal to logic and reason?

 

[Doveaman]

Doveaman:
Sixth sense? Can you prove that such a thing exists to begin with?

Christianity is evidence of this sixth sense since there would be no Christianity without it: "For we walk by faith, not by sight." - 2 Cor 5:7.

I also want your thoughts on why we swedes seem to lack this "sixth sense" seeing as 85% of all swedes are atheists.

Because: "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Cor 2:14.

Is it a negative mutation brought on by evolution perchance? .

Nope. It maybe because atheists are blinded by evolution theory.

 

[Split Rock]

It may have resembled a Lake of Fire to John. But do I think Hell is physical torture. No. Its deeper and more painful.

So, you say it is even worse than torture. So, it seems that there is much confusion about the nature of Hell among believers.

There is plenty of evidence. You choose to ignore it.

Romans 1:20 - For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen being understood through what has been made so that they are without excuse.

A quote from scripture isn't very good evidence (for me). We keep hearing about all the evidence we are ignoring... anything other than scripture?

yes.

Why did God create a place which is worse than physical torture?

 

[Skaloop]

Of course I sinned and still do, from time to time, but no I'm not going to hell because I accepted the gift of Christ.

How convenient for you.

There is plenty of evidence.

Such as?

 

[Honkytnkmn]

So, you say it is even worse than torture. So, it seems that there is much confusion about the nature of Hell among believers.


A quote from scripture isn't very good evidence (for me). We keep hearing about all the evidence we are ignoring... anything other than scripture?

Look around you. I didn't quote the scripture as proof, read and try to understand what its saying. Every thing you see is proof. Now you can make up your mind to ignore the proof or come up with alternate reasons for everything you see, I can't help you there.

Why did God create a place which is worse than physical torture?

Hell is not there to torture, its a place absent of God. The consequence of being without God is torture.

 

[Mobiosity]

You mean like countless other cults and religions have had martyrs die for their faith?

Of course not. No cults or religions have had the Son of God killed and then resurrected.

Why aren't you Muslim, then?

I might ask you the same question. You seem intent on tearing down Christianity.

If he's omnipotent, he knows what would convince every single person.

Sort of blows a hole in our God given free choice.

There is no intersubjectively verifiable evidence for the existence of a deity.

Then it wouldn't be faith would it?

Mere baseless assertions.

Your inability to understand doesn't make them baseless.

Why doesn't your god appeal to logic and reason?

Oh He does.

 

[DDdreamer]

Christianity is evidence of this sixth sense since there would be no Christianity without it: "For we walk by faith, not by sight." - 2 Cor 5:7.

Er...that's not evidence, that's an assertion. A silly one, to boot.

Because: "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Cor 2:14.

Yeah, yeah, I know what you the bible says about atheists. It doesn't answer my question though.

Nope. It maybe because atheists are blinded by evolution theory.

Blinded? Nah, it doesn't "blind" me at all to see evolution as sufficient explanation for the complexity of life. I'm still open to other suggestions.