Discussion Why I do not believe you can accurately prophesy about an election.

[A_Thinker]

I hope you understand that your unforgiving judgementalism against those who seek the Lord in the prophetic ministry will backfire equally on you and whatever ministry area you walk in.

There is no scriptural basis for such a belief.

The scriptures urge christians to be discerning regarding everything having to do with christian ministry ... because "many false spirits have gone out into the world".

If a prophet sticks there neck out there to speak what the Lord hasn't confirmed, ... they bear the consequences for such behavior.

There simply is no provision for those in ministry to be free from accountability ... because what they do reflects upon us all ...

 

[paul1149]

Are you going to apply this to Isaiah?

They also had a school of the prophets back then, in Elijah-Elisha's day. From that we see that there was a learning curve to hearing the Lord's voice accurately; and that being the case, I believe we can conclude that the prophets did not always get it right.

The scriptures are not in full superficial agreement about the penalties for wrong prophecy. On one hand death is prescribed; on the other, we are merely not to fear the prophet, no punishment is mentioned at all. So we have to look deeper to find the mind of the Lord in the matter. I believe the distinguisher between the two is intent. If the prophet was trying to harm the people by grossly misleading them, death was to be administered, because that kind of thing could not be tolerated in Israel. But if he had merely gotten it wrong, or perhaps even only got the timing wrong, he had some egg on his face and needed to bone up for the next time. The people would have to discern what was going on on a case basis and proceed accordingly.

I may have written earlier in this thread that there was a reason Paul told the Thessalonians not to despise prophecy. If prophecy were perfectly reliable there would be no reason to despise it. But it's not; it can be messy and prophets can occasionally get it wrong. That's not a good thing, but it's a real thing, and we have to use discernment. Paul tells the Thessalonians not to give up on prophecy nonetheless; the real deal is out there, and it's too valuable to give up on.

As far as I know, all the prophecies for this election either said that Trump would win, or in the case of Sundar, favored Trump and warned that if America chose the wrong man she would decline and never be restored to her former level of greatness.

 

[tturt]

It also says
"Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you." Matt 7

You can judge and when you do, it comes back to you with equal measure.

 

[A_Thinker]

It also says
"Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you." Matt 7

You can judge and when you do, it comes back to you with equal measure.

Judgement and discernment are not the same thing ...

 

[tturt]

I know Giving Scripture for Drake's post Since someone said comments were unscriptural.

 

[mourningdove~]

No... it's not yet over with the election, but pay attention because if all these prophecies are false and Trump does not become president then you need to behave like Christians and accept Biden as president and not act like the left did for the last 4 years...

@Hazelelponi ...

Who is the 'you' that you are talking to, in your post?

I understand your desire for 'peace' in the nation ... and it is admirable ... but I have seen no evidence here of any of us not 'behaving' as Christians ... or of any of us here intending to not 'behave' as Christians, if President Trump is not re-elected.

To take time to discern prophecies ...
To take time to hope to ensure that election results are fair ...
To take time ... when there is time ... to do those things ...
... is not an indicator that we will not 'behave' as Christians in the future.

And if you are saying that we must 'accept' Biden as president, in order to be 'behaving' like Christians ... (whatever your definition of 'accept'?) ... well, with that belief, I do disagree.

For the 8 years prior to President Trump ... and for the first time in my lifetime ... I did not 'accept' the man that was president of this country as 'my' president, because many of his polices were bad for America, extremely divisive, some even immoral. Not Christian. He did not represent me and many other Christians in America, our values, our hopes for this great country we live in. It was a sad time in American for many of us. A very difficult time.

But ... we 'sucked it up', and endured. Many of us prayed for the man.
And that is what I suppose many of us will find ourselves doing again, if Biden wins the election.

So, no need to fear.
True Christians do hear from God, and take their direction from Him.
And that is as it should be ...

God bless.

 

[hislegacy]

EXACTLY CORRECT. We all make mistakes, we can all miss it. When we do we can makes excuses or learn from it.

Sometimes people mishear, or misinterpret what God says. That happened to the disciples

Good to see we agree

 

[hislegacy]

Can you give me chapter and verse where Scripture says prophets can be wrong?

Avoiding my question by asking another? Really?

Prophecy is not intervention ... it's FOREKNOWLEDGE of an outcome ...

Because they're not really prophets of the Lord ...

Ding ding ding - yes, they can miss it.

 

[tturt]

We've already posted a couple of Biblical examples of when prophets' words missed it.

 

[lismore]

There is no scriptural basis for such a belief.

The scriptures urge christians to be discerning regarding everything having to do with christian ministry ... because "many false spirits have gone out into the world".

If a prophet sticks there neck out there to speak what the Lord hasn't confirmed, ... they bear the consequences for such behavior.

There simply is no provision for those in ministry to be free from accountability ... because what they do reflects upon us all ...

Hello A_Thinker.

I agree with you. Jesus warned us in Matthew 7:15 to watch out for false prophets, they are wolves in sheep's clothing. This reveals a priority that in my experience is often overlooked in Charismatic and Pentecostal circles, that is protecting the flock from wolves. When Jesus says 'Watch out' it's a command. It's a command of our Lord to watch out for false prophets. God Bless

 

[mourningdove~]

I’m not opposed to the prophetic, but in some cases it has been reduced to little more than fortune telling. The gift is so much more.

Yes, the gift is so much more.

I think that is an important point you make, and one that is helpful to remember, despite any false prophets and prophecies one might encounter in life ... and specifically, any that one might encounter regarding the current election.

 

[tturt]

I should have said a couple of Biblical examples where prophets missed it while there are hundreds that have been fulfilled - and more to be come to pass.

 

[Francis Drake]

There is no scriptural basis for such a belief.

Oh yes there is. This principle runs all through OT and NT!
The measure of judgement you use will be used against you!

The scriptures urge christians to be discerning regarding everything having to do with christian ministry ... because "many false spirits have gone out into the world".

But you are not using discernment, you're just issuing your own carnal judgement left right and centre against the prophets in general.

If a prophet sticks there neck out there to speak what the Lord hasn't confirmed, ... they bear the consequences for such behavior.

The same is true for all ministries, many of which are wolves in sheep's clothing. Paul makes that very clear.
James3v1My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. 2For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body.
Long before the reawakening of the prophetic ministry, for nearly 2000 years the church was led entirely by theology, and look at the divisions and corruption we see around us today, entirely the responsibility of the teaching ministry, not the prophets.

There simply is no provision for those in ministry to be free from accountability ... because what they do reflects upon us all ...

Nobody is denying that, but the prophetic ministry bears a tiny percentage of responsibility for errors in the church. How about you redirect your angst against the rest of the ministries.

 

[A_Thinker]

How about you redirect your angst against the rest of the ministries.

So ... you would rather we get all amped up about christian ministries which are not such glaringly obvious failures ???

And BTW, I did speak of correction and reflection in light of the Catholic sexual abuse failures, and the televangelist failures of the 1990's ???

And the failed date-setters.

And ... the Charismatic side-shows.

And ... more recently, the failures of Jerry Falwell Jr. and company.

And ... the Inquisitions.

I'm not partial.

If Christians seek and receive public prominence, ... they need to be held accountable for the damage done per their failures ...

 

[mourningdove~]

(Deleted; off topic.)

 

[lismore]

If God gives a prophecy, it will be 100% accurate.

Samuel grew, and the LORD was with him, and he fulfilled everything Samuel prophesied (1 Samuel 3:19)

 

[lismore]

You gave no such example. Prophecies are not if. If they are from God they come to pass. Period.

You all can keep making excuses for your false prophets all you like, but Jesus said "I never knew you" which means, those prophecies and miracles weren't from His Hand, they were in fact demonic, whether His Name was used (falsely) or not.

I agree. If people give false prophecies in Jesus name then they are false prophets. The Lord Jesus told us to beware of these wolves (Matthew 7:15), he also warned us that false prophets would deceive many in the last days (Matthew 24:24). Therefore it should not be a surprise to us that there are false prophets. We should be on guard for them. To protect the flock these wolves should be marked and avoided by all those on the side of the truth. If anyone keeps supporting false prophets then sadly they are deceived and also are part of the same wicked work. God Bless

 

[pgp_protector]

Deuteronomy 13 had quite specific punishments for False Prophets.

 

[lismore]

Greetings!

They also had a school of the prophets back then, in Elijah-Elisha's day. From that we see that there was a learning curve to hearing the Lord's voice accurately; and that being the case, I believe we can conclude that the prophets did not always get it right.

I disagree. A prophet either speaks truth or lies. Every word of God is flawless, if it has a flaw then it isn't a word of God. A 'Learning curve' seems to suggest training oneself to be able to produce a more convincing deception.

The scriptures are not in full superficial agreement about the penalties for wrong prophecy. On one hand death is prescribed; on the other, we are merely not to fear the prophet, no punishment is mentioned at all. So we have to look deeper to find the mind of the Lord in the matter. I believe the distinguisher between the two is intent. If the prophet was trying to harm the people by grossly misleading them, death was to be administered, because that kind of thing could not be tolerated in Israel. But if he had merely gotten it wrong, or perhaps even only got the timing wrong, he had some egg on his face and needed to bone up for the next time. The people would have to discern what was going on on a case basis and proceed accordingly.

That phrase seems to sum up the difference in approach 'needed to bone up for the next time'. Your view seems to be that the priority is to get the (false) prophet back onto his platform, with a more convincing routine, get the show back on the road as soon as possible, trying to increase the accuracy of his statements by using various human techniques. If someone has given a false prophecy in Jesus name then there shouldn't be a next time. There shouldn't have been a this time either.

What about the need for truth and the need to protect the flock from wolves? Keeping the proven false prophet as far away from the platform as possible should now be the priority. False prophecies and false words of knowledge can do unspeakable damage to the lives of God's people.

The people in Israel were not to fear a false prophet, obviously not because he's sharing the delusions of his own mind (Jeremiah 14:14). The response of the authorities should have been to silence the false prophet, to protect the flock, the response of the people to ignore him. In NT times there is discipline for those who tell lies in the church, they are to be marked by the leadership and avoided by the congregation.

Some leaders in the church today seem to be failing in that they consistently refuse to mark false prophets, as a result wolves are running riot through the sheep pen.

God Bless

 

[tturt]

Easy to tell who God uses in this way or not.

Have a chance to read post 44?