Discussion Why I do not believe you can accurately prophesy about an election.

[Francis Drake]

A king is their equivalent of a political leader. There was no Democracy at this point in history.

Absolutely agree, but was not questioning that at all.
You said, "God did not circumvent the will of the people re who they wanted as a political leader then, and He does not change. He will not do so today either." To me that implied you thought they would choose who would be their king.
I think we are at cross purposes here.

The verses clearly show it was NOT Gods will for a king to be placed and yet because of the people’s will, God gave them their King..

Again I agree,the demand for a king was rebellion against God that he should not reign over them.

If God would not interfere with their will then, He will not interfere with mans will today..

I disagree here. There are plenty of instances where God raised up faithful leaders, and when the Lord's people cry out to him, he does just that. The book of judges is full of that.

Demanding a king threw a spanner in the works, but did not stop it altogether.
Yes God gave them a king, and it implies that Saul was the very best man for the job in Israel. But he was still deeply flawed.
Then the Lord fired Saul and gave them David. Unfortunately for Dave, Saul refused to let go etc etc.
That aside, the problem with kings is that it creates a family line.The result being that you can get a wonderful faithful king, followed by his appallingly unfaithful son. And because you've demanded a monarchy, other than assassination, you can't get rid of him.

But democracies are not monarchies, and are not limited to family lines. So just like in Judges,when the people cry out, God can still raise a deliverer.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

God has never intervened in human will. If He could, we would be living in lives with a whole lot less sin. If He could, everyone would choose Jesus as Lord and Savior. God is long suffering, not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance. I've read that some where.

That reality stops prevents Divine Intervention in an election. Because who the person votes for is an act of their free will. If God cannot get you to walk away from that sin that you battle daily, how can He possibly make someone who isn't even a believer vote a certain way?

The problem with your OP is you are assuming that God is subject to the laws and flow of time. Time is an aspect of the creation itself. God is beyond time, he is not subject to it. (Christians typically preach that is God is omnipresent and all knowing, and all powerful. Many scriptures also imply that God knows things from the beginning etc. And even recent theories and discoveries like the Theory of Relativity confirm ideas like Time is part of the Creation, and a being that is a creator would be subject to that etc. that we get from traditional Christian Platonic theology).


God, Time, and Eternity | Reasonable Faith

 

[hislegacy]

The problem with your OP is you are assuming that God is subject to the laws and flow of time. Time is an aspect of the creation itself. God is beyond time, he is not subject to it. (Christians typically preach that is God is omnipresent and all knowing, and all powerful. Many scriptures also imply that God knows things from the beginning etc. And even recent theories and discoveries like the Theory of Relativity confirm ideas like Time is part of the Creation, and a being that is a creator would be subject to that etc. that we get from traditional Christian Platonic theology).


God, Time, and Eternity | Reasonable Faith

Great post and another view - excellent. Yes God is present at every moment in time.

Then all these 'prophets' missed His voice, didn't they?

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Great post and another view - excellent. Yes God is present at every moment in time.

Then all these 'prophets' missed His voice, didn't they?

Yes! I have been following this sort of thing for over 30 years. I have had some good personal prophecy etc. But this sort of thing has troubled me, the excuse making that is.

Long ago, I had something that I thought was a "word" about a friends mother being healed but that didn't happen and she died. In retrospect I think it was a buzz from drinking my early morning coffee, that I did before prayer and Bible study etc.


I think lots of people have that. In my case, the only one I told it to was my best friend who originally told me to pray for this other person who was a church associate. And I was trying to follow all the various advice I received about "stirring up the gift" etc. And I was a newbie at the time.


I think lots of big name have the same thing, even though they got more experience and have built some kind of reputation on revelatory gifts. I think there are a lot of things that get in the way, especially the psychological baggage, emotional state of the person, motivations, even certain doctrinal ideas that are outside the mainstream can play a role.


Anyway one guy I like a lot speaks against "rubber prophecy". (Trying to reinterpret the prophecy or revise history so it is not wrong). That sort of thing concerns me; because, Biblical prophecy is very certain most of the time. The only time it doesn't happen is when God spares someone. And that is not the sense I get from many prophets. When you hear them preach, it often feels more like a "self fulfilling prophecy" or something from the power of positive thinking e.g. if we pray enough, fast, and get out to vote then God will do his part to have Trump elected just as we prophesied.

 

[lismore]

Then all these 'prophets' missed His voice, didn't they?

Hello legacy. There were two candidates in the election, 'prophets' had a 50% chance of choosing the right one but just about all went for the wrong one. If people had tossed a coin in the air statistically they could have done better than the charismatic prophets. IMO this anomaly points to deep rooted issues that need to be dealt with. These 'prophets' didn't miss God's voice, he didn't speak to them.

Before they even begin to speak we can line up these so called prophets against the word of God.

Jesus called them together and said, "You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all (Mark 10:42-44).

God Bless

 

[hislegacy]

There were two candidates in the election, 'prophets' had a 50% chance of choosing the right one but just about all went for the wrong one. If people had tossed a coin in the air statistically they could have done better than the charismatic prophets. IMO this anomaly points to deep rooted issues that need to be dealt with. These 'prophets' didn't miss God's voice, he didn't speak to them.

Hello s’more, I tend to agree with you in your statement, I am just a bit more gracious.

correction definitely needs to be made, but in love and humility. Dealing with error takes on several forms, the most effective of which is done by someone who is in authority over them. Which is neither you nor I.

In the meantime, I will pray for them.

 

[lismore]

Hello s’more, I tend to agree with you in your statement, I am just a bit more gracious.

correction definitely needs to be made, but in love and humility. Dealing with error takes on several forms, the most effective of which is done by someone who is in authority over them. Which is neither you nor I.

In the meantime, I will pray for them.

Hello Legacy. Thank you for your reply. I would just say two things. A lot of the recent false prophets are not under authority, they are self appointed.

And many of them say they were taken to heaven and saw God face to face and were given these prophecies. Given that I don't think this phenomenon can be seen as error. It's something more, either lying or a spiritual deception. God Bless

 

[hislegacy]

Hello Legacy. Thank you for your reply. I would just say two things. A lot of the recent false prophets are not under authority, they are self appointed.

And many of them say they were taken to heaven and saw God face to face and were given these prophecies. Given that I don't think this phenomenon can be seen as error. It's something more, either lying or a spiritual deception. God Bless

Hello s’more, I don’t disagree with you. That is why I don’t waste my time trying to correct ones who will not listen.

Jesus told the 12 if someone will receive you, stay, if not kick the dust off your feet and keep moving.

Don’t get me wrong, if someone brings up the subject I’ll speak the truth every time, but I do my best not to argue once it is demonstrated that the point is useless.

Sometimes people live for confrontation, instead of correction, it reinforces their position to them. They see themselves as fighters, so fighting them does nothing to help.