Discussion Why I do not believe you can accurately prophesy about an election.

[Always in His Presence]

It's really simple from my vantage.

God has never intervened in human will. If He could, we would be living in lives with a whole lot less sin. If He could, everyone would choose Jesus as Lord and Savior. God is long suffering, not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance. I've read that some where.

That reality stops prevents Divine Intervention in an election. Because who the person votes for is an act of their free will. If God cannot get you to walk away from that sin that you battle daily, how can He possibly make someone who isn't even a believer vote a certain way?

So why did so many prophesy? I think it was a heart cry, not a heavenly message.

 

[NerdGirl]

It's really simple from my vantage.

God has never intervened in human will. If He could, we would be living in lives with a whole lot less sin. If He could, everyone would choose Jesus as Lord and Savior. God is long suffering, not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance. I've read that some where.

That reality stops prevents Divine Intervention in an election. Because who the person votes for is an act of their free will. If God cannot get you to walk away from that sin that you battle daily, how can He possibly make someone who isn't even a believer vote a certain way?

So why did so many prophesy? I think it was a heart cry, not a heavenly message.

While I agree with the fact that all men have free will, God also has a will, and it is not thwarted by men's choices.

Proverbs 19:21 Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand.

Proverbs 16:4 The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.

Isaiah 46:10-11 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things which have not been done, saying, ‘My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all My good pleasure’; calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of my purpose from a far country. Truly I have spoken; truly I will bring it to pass. I have planned it, surely I will do it.

Isaiah 14:24 The Lord of hosts has sworn saying, “Surely, just as I have intended so it has happened, and just as I have planned so it will stand...

Isaiah 25:1 O Lord, You are my God; I will exalt You, I will give thanks to Your name; For You have worked wonders, plans formed long ago, with perfect faithfulness.

Job 42:2 “I know that You can do all things, and that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted."

There's only so much screwing up that mankind can do, when God has a plan in place.

 

[NerdGirl]

I don't disagree that trying to prophesy election results is a rather silly business, though

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

God has never intervened in human will.

If that were true, we would have killed each other a long time ago (hence He sent the flood because man kind was so evil, only 8 were righteous, and so on). Remember, all the good comes from God, and we all turned our backs on Him, thus He does not have to stop any evil. The facts He does throughout our history so often only shows His love.

If He could, everyone would choose Jesus as Lord and Savior

Well then it would not be choice, but we would be forced so no one would chose thus no one would be saved.

how can He possibly make someone who isn't even a believer vote a certain way?

Uhm, I don't know...maybe because He is God? God is in charge who the Kings of the Earth are. It was His will that Biden is elected. And how He achieved that? Many times in the Bible God sends an unclean Spirit to an unbeliever who listens the unclean Spirit and essentially does what God wants. Can God do that? Yes because we sinned He will use evil to punish us.

Does this mean we have no free will? By no means, if we had no free will we would never sinned, but our choices are part of God's plans. For example God will set your life certain way so you make certain choices. I like F1 for example but had I been born is USA and lived there, I would probably watch Nascar. God is in full control of everything. How our free will is part of God's plans is beyond my knowledge and understanding.

 

[paul1149]

Foreknowledge != determinism. God respects our will, but He also knows the end before the beginning. Therefore it is possible to tap into His foreknowledge if He allows it.

 

[Always in His Presence]

If that were true, we would have killed each other a long time ago (hence He sent the flood because man kind was so evil, only 8 were righteous, and so on).

Why did God need to send a flood if He intervened in human will?

Why not just intervene and prevent the need for the flood?

 

[Always in His Presence]

Foreknowledge != determinism. God respects our will, but He also knows the end before the beginning. Therefore it is possible to tap into His foreknowledge if He allows it.

Then why do modern day prophets miss it so often?

 

[paul1149]

Then why do modern day prophets miss it so often?

I don't know how often they miss it, but to the extent that they do, I suppose it's because they're not perfect. Be careful about formulating doctrine based on experience, especially statistical experience.

 

[tturt]

This forum rules include posters on this forum are "They are those who believe that all the various spiritual gifts (or charisms) listed in the New Testament (including but not limited to the manifestations gifts found in I Corinthians 12:8-10) are active in the Church today and desirable in the life of the individual believer, for the edification of the Body of Christ."

 

[Always in His Presence]

I 100% believe in prophesy. The prophetic reveals Salvation and strengthens and edifies.

BTW I am one of a number of people who helped form those guidelines for Spirit filled/Charismatic and Word of Faith.

I’m not opposed to the prophetic, but in some cases it has been reduced to little more than fortune telling. The gift is so much more.

 

[Always in His Presence]

John wrote in Revelation 19:19 For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

 

[Always in His Presence]

While I agree with the fact that all men have free will, God also has a will, and it is not thwarted by men's choices.

If so, why do so many die, not accepting Jesus?

If God’s will is not thwarted by men’s choices, why did Jesus tell us to pray that God’s will be done on earth as it is in heaven?

If God’s will is not thwarted by men’s choices, why was Paul stoned?

 

[Always in His Presence]

I don't know how often they miss it, but to the extent that they do, I suppose it's because they're not perfect.

EXACTLY CORRECT. We all make mistakes, we can all miss it. When we do we can makes excuses or learn from it.

 

[paul1149]

EXACTLY CORRECT. We all make mistakes, we can all miss it. When we do we can makes excuses or learn from it.

There had to be a reason Paul told the Thessalonians (1Th 5) not to despise prophecy, and to test it. If it were always reliable, then why despise it? we rather would run after it. And why the need for testing? The implication is that it can be messy and uncertain at times. Even in the OT they had a "school of the prophets" in Elisha's day, which implies learning; which implies they didn't always get it right. The prophecies we read in Scripture are the cream of the crop; no one is going to hit that mark.

 

[Always in His Presence]

There had to be a reason Paul told the Thessalonians (1Th 5) not to despise prophecy, and to test it. If it were always reliable, then why despise it? we rather would run after it. And why the need for testing? The implication is that it can be messy and uncertain at times. Even in the OT they had a "school of the prophets" in Elisha's day, which implies learning; which implies they didn't always get it right. The prophecies we read in Scripture are the cream of the crop; no one is going to hit that mark.

is prophesy only telling future events?

 

[paul1149]

is prophesy only telling future events?

No, it's foretelling and forthtelling, either.

 

[NerdGirl]

If so, why do so many die, not accepting Jesus?

Because men have free will, as you said, and I agreed with you.

If God’s will is not thwarted by men’s choices, why did Jesus tell us to pray that God’s will be done on earth as it is in heaven?

Why would we not pray for this?

If God’s will is not thwarted by men’s choices, why was Paul stoned?

Why do you think it wasn't God's will for Paul to die?

 

[Always in His Presence]

Why do you think it wasn't God's will for Paul to die?

Paul didn’t die.

 

[NerdGirl]

Paul didn’t die.

Sorry, my bad for not reading you closely

Do you believe that suffering or pain is outside of God's will?

 

[Always in His Presence]

Because men have free will, as you said, and I agreed with you.

Right, men have free will and that includes who they vote for. Regardless of who God wants as President, if He even does, men will exercise their free will and vote for whom they want.