Discussion Why I do not believe you can accurately prophesy about an election.

[Always in His Presence]

Do you believe that suffering or pain is outside of God's will?

open a thread, I’ll join you. This thread is on prophesy.

 

[NerdGirl]

open a thread, I’ll join you. This thread is on prophesy.

I don't know that I have the energy this evening, for a new discussion lol.

 

[tturt]

HisLegacy, thank you for your service to CF! Plus these unique SF/C forums!

The reason for #9 - stating those who dont believe in the manifestation of spiritual gifts and they're for todAY posts derail the threads. Usually they're on this forum.

Thanks again.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

It's really simple from my vantage.

God has never intervened in human will. If He could, we would be living in lives with a whole lot less sin. If He could, everyone would choose Jesus as Lord and Savior. God is long suffering, not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance. I've read that some where.

That reality stops prevents Divine Intervention in an election. Because who the person votes for is an act of their free will. If God cannot get you to walk away from that sin that you battle daily, how can He possibly make someone who isn't even a believer vote a certain way?

So why did so many prophesy? I think it was a heart cry, not a heavenly message.

The problem though is God's Sovereignty. God can and often does bring things to pass regardless of human participation and belief.


Proverbs 16:9

“A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.”

PROVERBS 21:1
KJ21
The king’s heart is in the hand of the Lord; as the rivers of water, He turneth it whithersoever He will.


Besides that there are even personal prophecies fulfilled in spite of the unbelief of the person hearing them. e.g. Sarah laughing when hearing she would have a child at 90 years of age, John the Baptists father likewise questioning the angel when hearing similar news.


I think there is something deeply wrong with concepts and claims about prophecy in the Charismatic movement. There was a specter of being stoned in the days of the Old Testament for wrong prophesies. Now that we are in the NT age and believe in grace etc. we do not have to worry about that.

 

[lismore]

God has never intervened in human will.

But the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh....Exodus 9:12.

 

[lismore]

Then why do modern day prophets miss it so often?

There are similar biblical examples, the prophet Micaiah the son of Imlah who was up against 400 false prophets who were manipulated by a lying Spirit (1 Kings 22). Then Jeremiah, a true prophet who was opposed by many giving false prophecies for example Hananiah (Jeremiah 28).

There are false prophets, there are true prophets. The challenge I think lies in the hearing, the discernment.

Some people who claim to speak for God will be and should be listened to.

Some people who claim to speak for God will be well meaning but wrong, sharing the delusions of their own minds (Jeremiah 23:26)

Some people who claim to speak for God will be deceived deceivers, speaking deceptions from the devil (2 Timothy 3:13)

God Bless

 

[Always in His Presence]

There are similar biblical examples, the prophet Micaiah the son of Imlah who was up against 400 false prophets who were manipulated by a lying Spirit (1 Kings 22). Then Jeremiah, a true prophet who was opposed by many giving false prophecies for example Hananiah (Jeremiah 28).

There are false prophets, there are true prophets. The challenge I think lies in the hearing, the discernment.

Some people who claim to speak for God will be and should be listened to.

Some people who claim to speak for God will be well meaning but wrong, sharing the delusions of their own minds (Jeremiah 23:26)

Some people who claim to speak for God will be deceived deceivers, speaking deceptions from the devil (2 Timothy 3:13)

God Bless

Thank you. That is what I am expressing in part.

 

[lismore]

Maybe a translation of some of the election prophecies could be:

'I think Trump would be the best president from a Christian perspective therefore I'm fervently praying that he will win'

 

[Always in His Presence]

Maybe a translation of some of the election prophecies could be:

'I think Trump would be the best president from a Christian perspective therefore I'm fervently praying that he will win'

I would hope that those who prophesy would have the integrity to say that instead of saying God told them something.

 

[lismore]

I would hope that those who prophesy would have the integrity to say that instead of saying God told them something.

For some people the line between 'fervent belief' and 'God said' might be blurred.
Otherwise it might be difficult to make sense of situations where different people are prophesying contrary words.

Even zeal is not good without knowledge, and the one who acts hastily sins (Proverbs 19:2) . God Bless

 

[Francis Drake]

John wrote in Revelation 19:19 For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

A testimony is effectively a description of what someone sees or hears. Like the testimony of a courtroom witness describing a car crash, an assault, or a report of what someone said.

So when someone moves in the Spirit of prophecy, he is really testifying to what Jesus would say if he were present.

 

[Francis Drake]

It's really simple from my vantage.

God has never intervened in human will. If He could, we would be living in lives with a whole lot less sin. If He could, everyone would choose Jesus as Lord and Savior. God is long suffering, not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance. I've read that some where.

That reality stops prevents Divine Intervention in an election. Because who the person votes for is an act of their free will. If God cannot get you to walk away from that sin that you battle daily, how can He possibly make someone who isn't even a believer vote a certain way?

So why did so many prophesy? I think it was a heart cry, not a heavenly message.

Do you make a habit of rejecting what God says to you?

If God spoke directly to you and told you to vote for someone, I'm sure you would be glad of his opinion, and make the choice of complying, entirely of freewill. As a faithful believer, you know God's wisdom is way beyond man's.

Obviously few people are attuned that closely to God's voice, but that doesn't stop him bringing conviction on people, to vote one way or another, all within the realms of freewill.

There are many ways God can influence man's decisions, without riding roughshod over our freewill. And always knowing the end from the beginning, God is able to reveal the results in advance to those who would listen.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Do you make a habit of rejecting what God says to you?

If God spoke directly to you and told you to vote for someone, I'm sure you would be glad of his opinion, and make the choice of complying, entirely of freewill. As a faithful believer, you know God's wisdom is way beyond man's.

Obviously few people are attuned that closely to God's voice, but that doesn't stop him bringing conviction on people, to vote one way or another, all within the realms of freewill.

There are many ways God can influence man's decisions, without riding roughshod over our freewill. And always knowing the end from the beginning, God is able to reveal the results in advance to those who would listen.

Thank you for your opinion.

We disagree.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Do you make a habit of rejecting what God says to you?

Why would you even ask such a ludicrous question?

If God spoke directly to you and told you to vote for someone, I'm sure you would be glad of his opinion, and make the choice of complying, entirely of freewill. As a faithful believer, you know God's wisdom is way beyond man's.

in the 45 years of my relationship with God through Jesus Christ, I have spoken with Him daily in prayer, additionally I have heard countless time His council and wisdom. He has spoken often of His Word and will towards a number of things, not once on whom I should vote for. If you take the time and follow the link in my signature, you will why I vote the way I do. Which for your information was for President Trump.

Obviously few people are attuned that closely to God's voice, but that doesn't stop him bringing conviction on people, to vote one way or another, all within the realms of freewill.

EXACTLY! Few people. That’s the key words here. What about the hundreds of millions of potential voters that are NOT influenced by His leading? Either by not being in a relationship with Him or not willing to be influenced?

There are many ways God can influence man's decisions, without riding roughshod over our freewill. And always knowing the end from the beginning, God is able to reveal the results in advance to those who would listen.

How will you explain the President loosing the election, if he does?

 

[Hazelelponi]

EXACTLY CORRECT. We all make mistakes, we can all miss it. When we do we can makes excuses or learn from it.

I think our takeaway is that we are surrounded by false prophets.

 

[Always in His Presence]

I think our takeaway is that we are surrounded by false prophets.

I’m not at that level. I believe a false prophet who intentionally misleads. That’s is whole lot different in my book to think you are hearing God, but missing it.

1Cor 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge.

Judging prophesy is a scriptural instruction for a reason.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I’m not at that level. I believe a false prophet who intentionally misleads. That’s is whole lot different in my book to think you are hearing God, but missing it.

1Cor 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge.

Judging prophesy is a scriptural instruction for a reason.

When Paul was to go to Jerusalem, he was given prophecy that he would be arrested (Acts of the Apostles 21:1-16).

He judged that prophecy. To judge means to examine, appraise, form an opinion, it's etymology means "law" and "to say"...

So Paul judged the prophesy according to what the law says. And what is law in our faith?

In Luke 14:26 we are told we are to hate even our own lives, in order to serve him. He also warned the Apostles would face persecution, just as He was persecuted. (Matthew 10:16-42)

So Paul knew that he would face persecution from both the political and religious realms, and he also knew he was to love God more than even his own life.

He took that information, and judged the prophecy, and decided if persecution was to come now, then let it come but he wasn't stopping what God would have him do.

That is rightly judging prophecy... not "oh it's okay that's inaccurate", but "hey it's going to happen but"

God says in Deuteronomy 18:20-22

"But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him."

Anyone who calls themselves a prophet but are listening to, and unable to differentiate between the Holy Spirit and Satan/demons, can we trust their interpretation on anything?

If they aren't listening to God, I say they can't so much as tell us what scripture is saying since Truth is by revelation of the Spirit of God. (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

Then why do modern day prophets miss it so often?

Because they are not real prophets ?

 

[Francis Drake]

Why would you even ask such a ludicrous question?

That was a rhetorical question, the following sentence revealed I what I thought your real response would be.

in the 45 years of my relationship with God through Jesus Christ, I have spoken with Him daily in prayer, additionally I have heard countless time His council and wisdom. He has spoken often of His Word and will towards a number of things, not once on whom I should vote for.

In many ways, the things God speaks to us about, largely depends on us and on our own hearing. This leaves us with areas of our life which in which we are deaf. Jesus calls this hardness of heart. I know that to be true from the many times it has happened with me.

If you take the time and follow the link in my signature, you will why I vote the way I do. Which for your information was for President Trump.

Good man voting for Trump.

EXACTLY! Few people. That’s the key words here. What about the hundreds of millions of potential voters that are NOT influenced by His leading? Either by not being in a relationship with Him or not willing to be influenced?

God doesn't have to influence every voter, just enough to do his will.

How will you explain the President loosing the election, if he does?

Sometimes people mishear, or misinterpret what God says. That happened to the disciples
Jn21v20Then Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following, who also had leaned on His breast at the supper, and said, “Lord, who is the one who betrays You?” 21Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, “But Lord, what about this man?”
22Jesus said to him, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me.”

23Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?”

 

[lismore]

'My sheep hear my voice' (John 10:27).