why humans are not primates

[AV1611VET]

Read it for yourself.

Do you agree with this remark about absurdity?

Humans are animals. It's absurd to think that we are not...

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

Do you agree with this remark about absurdity?

Why did you bring up Moses? Taxonomy has nothing to do with Moses. What on earth is the relevance?

 

[Doveaman]

Yet the rest of our toes are very capable of being prehensile.

The difference is in the foot, not in the toe joints.

A prehensile foot carries an opposable big toe which humans do not have.

Human toes have joints that allow them some measure of grasp, but this is no different from an elephant holding a ball in the joints of its legs.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

The difference is in the foot, not in the toe joints.

A prehensile foot carries an opposable big toe which humans do not have.

Human toes have joints that allow them some measure of grasp, but this is no different from an elephant holding a ball in the joints of its legs.

Our toes are prehensile. They are not the same as the joints in an elephants knees.

 

[Doveaman]

Nevertheless, it is clear that the shape of the human foot is closely related to the shape of the other primate feet.

No it isn't.

The human hands is closely related to the shape of primate feet.

It's not difficult to see which one of these feet is not like the others:

All species will have something different from other species in the larger group, or else they wouldn't be a separate species. So this argument against we humans being primates isn't valid.

Except that all primates have the same prehensile feet, which humans conveniently do not have.

 

[Doveaman]

Yet if you look at the skeletal structure of a human foot, you will see it is descended from a being with the similar foot structure to a chimpanzee.

Sorry, but all I will see is a skeletal structure. I will not see anything descending.

Follow this link and you can see that they discuss how, while human feet are different than a chimp's feet, they are related.

Anyone can invent a make-belief story to explain foot structures, but it is still a make-belief story.

Specifically look at the photos of the human climbing a tree barefoot compared to a chimp climbing a tree. You will see that they both do the same thing: they use their toes to grasp the tree.

The difference is not in the structure of the toes, it is in the structure of the feet. Grasping with toes is not the difference, grasping with feet is the difference.

Humans do not have prehensile feet to grasp like primates do.

 

[Doveaman]

This is why "having grasping toes" is a bad definition for primate.

I agree.

It is having grasping feet that differentiates primates from humans.

 

[HitchSlap]

No it isn't.

The human hands is closely related to the shape of primate feet.

It's not difficult to see which one of these feet is not like the others:

Except that all primates have the same prehensile feet, which humans conveniently do not have.

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[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Sorry, but all I will see is a skeletal structure. I will not see anything descending.
Anyone can invent a make-belief story to explain foot structures, but it is still a make-belief story.
The difference is not in the structure of the toes, it is in the structure of the feet. Grasping with toes is not the difference, grasping with feet is the difference.

Humans do not have prehensile feet to grasp like primates do.

Humans do not have the same prehensile ability that is evident in apes and monkeys, but that is because we are more adapted to a life on the floor than in the trees.
But the fact you call the evidence of humans evolving from apes a 'make-believe story' really tells me all I need to know about your view on the matter.

 

[Doveaman]

Our toes are prehensile. They are not the same as the joints in an elephants knees.

Our toes have three joints that allow us to grasp objects with our toes.

Elephant legs have three joints that allow them to grasp objects with their legs.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Our toes have three joints that allow us to grasp objects with our toes.

Elephant legs have three joints that allow them to grasp objects with their legs.

That's not the same as having prehensile toes.
But as I said, your statement of the fossil evidence being evidence of a 'make-believe story' tells me all I need to know about your view on this topic.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I agree.

It is having grasping feet that differentiates primates from humans.

Surely you understand your own failure here.

"Having grasping feet" is a bad definition of primate, because birds would be primates.

Showing that there are differences between gorillas, chimps, and humans is just not pertinent information, because we know they are not identical. The question is "What defines a primate?" When you use the actual definition, rather than your badly contrived one, humans are primates.

 

[Doveaman]

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Very impressive.

It would be even more impressive if she could do this:

 

[essentialsaltes]

Very impressive.

It would be even more impressive if she could do this:

If you'll notice, this monkey is hanging from its prehensile tail. This is how we know that we and the other apes are not primates -- we do not have tails.

 

[Doveaman]

Humans do not have the same prehensile ability that is evident in apes and monkeys

Yes, I agree that humans do not have the prehensile feet that is evident in apes and monkeys.

but that is because we are more adapted to a life on the floor than in the trees.

If that story works for you, great.

But the fact you call the evidence of humans evolving from apes a 'make-believe story' really tells me all I need to know about your view on the matter.

Yes, humans evolving from apes is a story we were led to believe.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Yes, I agree that humans do not have the prehensile feet that is evident in apes and monkeys.
If that story works for you, great.
Yes, humans evolving from apes is a story we were led to believe.

Well, it's a more believable story than yours.

 

[Doveaman]

That's not the same as having prehensile toes.

I agree.

Grasping objects with your toe joints or leg joints is not the same as having prehensile toes or legs.

But as I said, your statement of the fossil evidence being evidence of a 'make-believe story' tells me all I need to know about your view on this topic.

My view on the topic is that humans do not have prehensile feet like primates do. That's a fact regardless of what we choose to believe about evolution.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

My view on the topic is that humans do not have prehensile feet like primates do. That's a fact regardless of what we choose to believe about evolution.

And yet all the evidence shows that we evolved from beings that had prehensile feet. The fossil evidence shows that.
And we don't 'believe' in evolution. You can't believe in a scientific theory. You either accept it or you don't.

 

[Doveaman]

Well, it's a more believable story than yours.

As long as we agree it's a story.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

As long as we agree it's a story.

I was using 'story' in a sarcastic sense. The theory of evolution is no more a story than the Declaration of Independence is a story.