Why have the Sign Gifts Ended

[Major1]

MAry Magdalane says it had 7 demons expulsed from her.

Mark 16:9......
"...he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils."

"HE" in that verse is the Lord Jesus Christ.

If "He" was the one who gave the SIGN GIFTS to the ELEVEN Apostles, do you think that as God in the flesh who created ALL things, HE would have the ability to cast out demons.

 

[NBB]

"THEM" in Mark 16:17 refers to the ELEVEN as recorded in verse #14.

In the Greek grammar, the "ANTECEDENT" of the word THEM in verse #17 is actually the ELEVEN in verse #14.

Definition of antecedent
Definition of ANTECEDENT
grammar : a substantive word, phrase, or clause whose denotation is referred to by a pronoun that typically follows the substantive (such as John in "Mary saw John and called to him")broadly : a word or phrase replaced by a substitute

You are free to believe anything you want to believe. You are just as free to believe that you have cast out demons if you want to and that you speak in tongues and make sounds that no one understands.

All I can tell you is that the Bible can not be used to validate what you believe that you want to do. The GREEK GRAMMER simply does not allow it to be the case.

YOU are NOT one of the ELEVEN as you posted from Mark 16.
YOU are not an Apostle and YOU and no one else has the Sign Gifts.

No need to argue that point with me, go and use any Greek concordance, Strong's, Vines or anything else and you will find that they confirm what I just said.

So what we do with all the devil oppresed people?!
Or you think demons have a vacation nowadays?
There is no worse blind than the one who doesn't want to see man!. Please.

 

[Major1]

I didn't mean you are a sceptic of Christianity or faith or the Word, but sceptic to "miracle gifts".

I am not a skeptic of that either brother.

What would you define as a "miracle". It is a word and belief that we toss around very freely without contemplating what it means.

Psalm 72:18 -
"Wondrous things (miracles) are things only God can do."

So then by using God's Word as the authority of meaning.....does a faith healer blowing on someone and declaring that they are healed from their hiccups a miracle?

If a faith healer hits someone on the head and say that in Jesus name....you are healed from your arthritis conform to a miracle?

NOT according to the Word of God.

So then what are some BIBLE explinations of a miracle.

1. Creation Genesis 1:1
2. Water Is Turned into Blood Exodus 7:20-25
3. Red Sea Ex. 14.
4. Angel food delivered to those in Wilderness Ex. 18
5. Jonah and the big fish (Jonah 1:17)
6. The virgin birth of Jesus (Matthew 1:18–25)
7. Daniel’s survival in the den of lions (Daniel 6:21–22)
8. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego’s preservation in the fiery furnace (Daniel 3:25)
9. Jesus’ walking on water (Matthew 14:25–27)
10Jesus’ calming of the storm

Note this......NO ONE saw more miracles from God than did the people who came out of Egypt and yet they still did not believe God!

 

[Major1]

So what we do with all the devil oppresed people?!
Or you think demons have a vacation nowadays?
There is no worse blind than the one who doesn't want to see man!. Please.

First of all, I do not know and have never know a demon possessed person.

In 50 years of Christian ministry and family counseling I have never seen or had anyone come to me who was demon possessed. I have had several who were "OPPRESSESD" by demons but never "Possessed".

I have been to Central America, Hattie, and Africa and seen witch doctors do "Demonic" rituals including Voodoo but I have never witnessed a DEMON Possessed person.

I have personally seen and ministered people who were having epileptic seizures and other forms of illnesses. I have seen and been a part of those peoples lives who were having psychotic episodes and others with mental illness and even some from drug and medicine reactions.

Secondly, a Christian can not be demon possessed. That is an impossibility.

Then, Personally, I think demon possession activities are found more in Hollywood movies than in real life.

Then I would say that worse than blindness and I assume you are referring to my reluctant to not accept what YOU believe---- is the over exaggeration of things that do not fit a mold we have created to place things into.

 

[Albion]

I didn't mean you are a sceptic of Christianity or faith or the Word, but sceptic to "miracle gifts".

It's best to keep the word miracle out of this. Almost every Christian believes in miracles. The parting of the Red Sea, for instance.

But we are talking here about the gifts of the Holy Ghost as referred to in Corinthians. They might be called miraculous, but it just confuses the issue.

 

[NBB]

First of all, I do not know and have never know a demon possessed person.

In 50 years of Christian ministry and family counseling I have never seen or had anyone come to me who was demon possessed. I have had several who were "OPPRESSESD" by demons but never "Possessed".

I have been to Central America, Hattie, and Africa and seen witch doctors do "Demonic" rituals including Voodoo but I have never witnessed a DEMON Possessed person.

I have personally seen and ministered people who were having epileptic seizures and other forms of illnesses. I have seen and been a part of those peoples lives who were having psychotic episodes and others with mental illness and even some from drug and medicine reactions.

Secondly, a Christian can not be demon possessed. That is an impossibility.

Then, Personally, I think demon possession activities are found more in Hollywood movies than in real life.

Then I would say that worse than blindness and I assume you are referring to my reluctant to not accept what YOU believe---- is the over exaggeration of things that do not fit a mold we have created to place things into.

You don't need to have a 'hollywood' show... demons/evil spirits, can just stay inside the person, doing their thing until casted out, and probably they would prefer to hide rather than show themselves, i had what doctors call 'ocd intrusive thoughts' after casting out an spirit that God showed me, i didn't have those instrusive thoughts ever again... you don't need hollywood stuff, if something is tormenting a person in their thoughts, or even not letting them believe, or binding them to porn, etc then there could exist an evil spirit within them.

 

[zoidar]

It's best to keep the word miracle out of this. Almost every Christian believes in miracles. The parting of the Red Sea, for instance.

But we are talking here about the gifts of the Holy Ghost as referred to in Corinthians. They might be called miraculous, but it just confuses the issue.

Sorry found no other word to describe gifts of healing and prophesy.

 

[Albion]

Sorry found no other word to describe gifts of healing and prophesy.

Sure, but we all know what the subject of the gifts is about, so there must be other terms of reference. "Gifts of the HS" always seemed adequate to me.

 

[1an]

What an outrageous comment to make.

No wonder you are having such a problem with understanding what Mark and Matthew said.

I believe in a wonder working God yesterday, today and forever, and you just banished him from the face of the earth, and his people. I am shocked, horrified, and dismayed. Now I do not have anyone to turn to.

He told us, where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst. But I will tell you what, He won't be where there is disbelief and disharmony, and then you ask why don't we see the gifts in action.
.

 

[Albion]

I believe in a wonder working God yesterday, today and forever, and you just banished him from the face of the earth, and his people. I am shocked, horrified, and dismayed. Now I do not have anyone to turn to.
.

Is this sarcasm too?

 

[1an]

Is this sarcasm too?

Certainly not.
.

 

[zoidar]

Sure, but we all know what the subject of the gifts is about, so there must be other terms of reference. "Gifts of the HS" always seemed adequate to me.

Yes, but that could refer to gifts as kindness, love, patience etc. I changed it to - the "supernatural" gifts of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Albion]

Yes, but that could refer to gifts as kindness, love, patience etc. I add "gifts of the Holy Spirit" to the post.

Hmmmm. Maybe, but I think that "the gifts of the Holy Spirit" (or just HS) is normally recognized as meaning the ones itemized in Corinthians. And it's almost always tongues--or occasionally healing--that get all the debate, you know, and they are from that list.

 

[Major1]

I believe in a wonder working God yesterday, today and forever, and you just banished him from the face of the earth, and his people. I am shocked, horrified, and dismayed. Now I do not have anyone to turn to.

He told us, where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst. But I will tell you what, He won't be where there is disbelief and disharmony, and then you ask why don't we see the gifts in action.
.

You have to be playing with me....right?????

All it took for you to be shocked, horrified and dismayed was for someone to correctly exegesis the Scriptures on something you disagree with????

That simple action has caused to to think you have no one to turn to????

NO ONE, certainly not me even suggested that our Creator is not a wonder working, God who heals and does miracles. THAT is coming from YOU OWN MIND not from anything I have said.

All I have said and say yet again is EXACTLY what is written in Marl 16:14-17...........
"Afterward he appeared unto the ELEVEN as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues".

The Greek GRAMMER…..Not what I say or think but what the actual Greek GRAMMER demands is the the "ANTECEDENT" of verse #17....."And these SIGNS shall follow THEM that believe" is the ELEVEN seen in verse #14.

Now you are free to reject anything I say but you are not free to blame for for something that you did not know up until now.

YOU and ME are not found in that Scripture. It was given by Christ to the ELEVEN!!!

It seems to me that If you are horrified and dismayed it is because you were never properly taught the Word of God as it is written and I just became an easy target.

Listen.....I do not want to make an enemy of anyone. Why in the world don't you use your computer and start the process of looking all this information up for yourself.

It just is not that hard to verify everything I have said.

 

[Major1]

Hmmmm. Maybe, but I think that "the gifts of the Holy Spirit" (or just HS) is normally recognized as meaning the ones itemized in Corinthians. And it's almost always tongues--or occasionally healing--that get all the debate, you know, and they are from that list.

Agreed.

 

[Major1]

Yes, but that could refer to gifts as kindness, love, patience etc. I changed it to - the "supernatural" gifts of the Holy Spirit.

However......."Gifts of the Holy Spirit" that you posted is very different from the "SIGN GIFTS" given to the Apostles in Mark 16.

 

[Major1]

You don't need to have a 'hollywood' show... demons/evil spirits, can just stay inside the person, doing their thing until casted out, and probably they would prefer to hide rather than show themselves, i had what doctors call 'ocd intrusive thoughts' after casting out an spirit that God showed me, i didn't have those instrusive thoughts ever again... you don't need hollywood stuff, if something is tormenting a person in their thoughts, or even not letting them believe, or binding them to porn, etc then there could exist an evil spirit within them.

I am sorry my friend, but your comments are just way too much for me to accept.

Maybe someone else would like to banter with you but I can not do this with you as you do not confirm anything with Scriptures and what you are saying is not believable to me personally......with all due respect to you.

 

[NBB]

I am sorry my friend, but your comments are just way too much for me to accept.

Maybe someone else would like to banter with you but I can not do this with you as you do not confirm anything with Scriptures and what you are saying is not believable to me personally......with all due respect to you.

This is common information... not a thing from me only, depends on what 'circle' you are, but at least i gave you testimony i had intrusive thoughts, its not just my opinion, i lived through this and other spiritual problems, that when the evil spirits went away in Jesus name i clearly saw a difference.

 

[Francis Drake]

"THEM" in Mark 16:17 refers to the ELEVEN as recorded in verse #14.

In the Greek grammar, the "ANTECEDENT" of the word THEM in verse #17 is actually the ELEVEN in verse #14.

Definition of antecedent
Definition of ANTECEDENT
grammar : a substantive word, phrase, or clause whose denotation is referred to by a pronoun that typically follows the substantive (such as John in "Mary saw John and called to him")broadly : a word or phrase replaced by a substitute

You are free to believe anything you want to believe. You are just as free to believe that you have cast out demons if you want to and that you speak in tongues and make sounds that no one understands.

All I can tell you is that the Bible can not be used to validate what you believe that you want to do. The GREEK GRAMMER simply does not allow it to be the case.

YOU are NOT one of the ELEVEN as you posted from Mark 16.
YOU are not an Apostle and YOU and no one else has the Sign Gifts.

No need to argue that point with me, go and use any Greek concordance, Strong's, Vines or anything else and you will find that they confirm what I just said.

This deception is denied by Paul's teaching on tongues which obviously was not addressed to the eleven!
Additionally, I have witnessed many times the accurate interpretation of tongues.
Your nonsense is also denied by the fact that casting demons out was not limited to just the eleven!

 

[Francis Drake]

I am sorry my friend, but your comments are just way too much for me to accept.

Are you serious?
Have you never cast demons out of someone?

Maybe someone else would like to banter with you but I can not do this with you as you do not confirm anything with Scriptures and what you are saying is not believable to me personally......with all due respect to you.

Are you saying that evil spirits don't exist, or can't be cast out today?