• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Si_monfaith

Let God alone answer through us
Feb 27, 2016
2,274
210
35
Australia
✟25,925.00
Country
India
Gender
Male
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Single
Having looked into the idea of the, "knowledge of good and evil", I think that the translation is not the best. The meaning is lost. Both Adam and Eve already knew what good and evil were. God gave them a command, and He also walked and talked with them, so it's not as simplistic as them not being aware of what good or evil were.

Through some study, and good teachers, I have come to understand that the sin in eating of the tree was in the determining of what is good and evil for one's self. In the garden, what Adam knew as good or evil was external. It came from God. God determined for them what was good and what was evil. Adam's sin (and ours) is that he wanted to determine for himself what was good or evil. He didn't want God telling him what to do. He wanted to be God. That's what happened in the Garden that day. Adam's temptation was, "you shall be like God".

If they knew what evil is, before eating the fruit, they would have clothed themselves & thus avoid themselves & their offsprings from remaining naked.

But they did not clothe themselves then. Which means we would all be naked now!
 
Upvote 0

geetrue

Veteran
Site Supporter
Dec 16, 2006
2,375
451
Beach House
Visit site
✟96,276.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
Fear God does not mean to be afraid of Him ... the word actually just means respect Him.

Respect Him in your tithes and offerings for example does not mean to be afraid of God if you don't put something in the plate when it comes by. God will use His Holy Spirit to prick your soul if you don't love Him.
 
Upvote 0

franky67

Senior Veteran
Jul 22, 2005
4,157
320
100
✟36,351.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Why have we come to a place of prettying the Bible up? I'm asking because I'm hurting by someone who never took it seriously until now that he's lost practically everything as a result of his sin.[/QUOTE said:
His sin did not cause him to lose everything, it is his refusal to repent. God loves him and is just waiting for him To come back home, just like the father of the prodigal son, who sat on his porch day after day looking down the road for his son to come back home.

Read about it, it tells of the great love God has for all His children.

1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and cleanse us of all unrighteousness."

The residing Holy Spirit of Jesus is in us, as close as our heart, and if we sin, He will convict us, and we won't continue to sin.

Read Ephesians 1:13, and make sure he is SEALED by the Holy Spirit, if he is, nothing can snatch him from the hand of God.

God Bless you and your husband.
 
Upvote 0

Victor E.

Disciple of Christ
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2016
2,712
404
32
U.S
✟223,711.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
They have become corrupted by the patterns of the world. They have an appearance of godliness but they deny the power thereof. 2 Timothy 3:5

It's watered down gospel by people who don't want to live out the gospel, but are qualified to preach, because they went to seminary and have a bible degree, so they don't believe in prophets or apostles today. A sad state of affairs. They are causing harm to their congregations because they want to compromise Truth to stay qualified to speak. This is the Truth. Can't be offending anyone, so we must please everyone. Everyone, except God. There is life in a lifestyle like Christ Jesus. This is not legalism, but love. This is why the world is hard pressed to find people who can walk in the supernatural, naturally.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

EinsteinsGirl

NEWLY WED! - Child of a Genius!
Feb 5, 2013
528
120
✟26,651.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Recently, I was hit with the worst betrayal I had ever experienced from another Christian. When I asked "Why?", my loved one who hurt me told me, "I just didn't fear God." This person was a Christian and had been active in outreaches for years.
It shouldn't be that surprising. The first murder to ever take place was brother against brother (interpreted as brethren against brethren). It was one of the 12 who turned on Jesus. Judas had done miracles just as the other 12 had, casting out demons, multiplying bread, etc. So we see how it is close friends who often are our betrayers and often it is other Christians sadly.

In the past, we'd always disagree about whether God punishes, whether it was okay to be mad at God, whether it was possible for God to be angry with any of His children, and whether God punishes.
Yes He does, and yes it is ok to be angry at God - it's a part of all relationships to be angry at times and then work through it as truth is revealed.

Why do so many churches rationalize God's character? As if we're trying to help Him to be the good God He is, we make unBiblical statements like "God doesn't punish" (even though Hebrews 12 tells us otherwise) and "We don't have to fear God" (even though Proverbs tells us that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom/knowledge.) Jesus told us to not fear him who can kill only the body, but to instead fear Him who can kill the body and cast the soul into hell.

Why have we come to a place of prettying the Bible up? I'm asking because I'm hurting by someone who never took it seriously until now that he's lost practically everything as a result of his sin.
The lukewarm church and those in a state of apostasy have hyped up the "hyper grace" message saying that God is "all loving" and would never say anything remotely viewed as disciplinary. There all all kinds of these goats in the church who are not serious about God. They want to live a cushy life of "just being saved" and go on doing as they wish living carnal flesh pleasing lives. It is the majority of the church in this state.

That being said, perhaps this fellow and friend of yours is being taken through a process of sanctification by which he is going to be learning the truth. In the bible we are told about the "fishers" and the "hunters". God fishes for us with wooing love to draw us in to believe the truth, but if the person refuses to listen to reason then God sends the "hunters" and this is when He uses tough love to herd the person into truth.

"But now I will send for many fishermen," declares the LORD, "and they will catch them. After that I will send for many hunters, and they will hunt them down on every mountain and hill and from the crevices of the rocks. Jer 16:16

I recommend the book THRONES OF THE SOUL by Paul Keith Davis.
 
Upvote 0

EinsteinsGirl

NEWLY WED! - Child of a Genius!
Feb 5, 2013
528
120
✟26,651.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Right now, I have a relative who is single and won't stop messing with a married woman who has kids. Yet he feels he is so close to God because, when hands are laid upon him, he falls out and feels spiritual and stays on the ground in an emotional state for literally hours. But won't let this married woman and her family's at-risk stability alone. And church leaders are proud of the effects of their service on him. My husband, whose discernment is still building from where it was shattered, is SO impressed by this guy's experience. Yet since 2 Sundays ago when he had his spiritual experience, he's spent time with this woman! I believe the Lord gives him the experience to give him space to repent. The experience is more something that's going to be reminded to him of what God was trying to do in his life rather than an experience to boast about.

Something is wrong!
Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Matt 7:22

This man falling out when hands are laid on him doesn't mean he's somehow "spiritual". Falling out is documented all through scripture and is not a sign of being "more spiritual". Most of the falling took place when the fear of God came upon people. ..What a mess and how confusing for onlookers who might mistake it as being God's "approval" -- not good.

And then there is the scripture about how the church is to handle a person who is living in willful sexual sin (of any sort). If the church leaders do not know what this man is doing, then you have a responsibility to tell them and point out this scripture so they will confront the man:

It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
-

May the Lord give you wisdom in following His Word to you regarding this matter.
 
Upvote 0

Alithis

Disciple of Jesus .
Nov 11, 2010
15,750
2,180
Mobile
✟109,492.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Matt 7:22

This man falling out when hands are laid on him doesn't mean he's somehow "spiritual". Falling out is documented all through scripture and is not a sign of being "more spiritual". Most of the falling took place when the fear of God came upon people. ..What a mess and how confusing for onlookers who might mistake it as being God's "approval" -- not good.

And then there is the scripture about how the church is to handle a person who is living in willful sexual sin (of any sort). If the church leaders do not know what this man is doing, then you have a responsibility to tell them and point out this scripture so they will confront the man:

It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
-

May the Lord give you wisdom in following His Word to you regarding this matter.
straight forward post . :oldthumbsup: -here's something to consider

It has long been observed that people falling down in charismatic circles means some kind of blessing .. but this is allowed to be openly questioned.
it has also come to be observed that when a person suddenly falls down (not the pushed down types who swoon oh so conveniently and complain if there is no catcher ) but the ones who actually collapse suddenly not seeming to have any will in the matter - when prayed for in faith for deliverance .. manifest a demon which is then driven out . the repetitive falling down is actually a demon doing it . after all ,if the person falls down most believers leave them alone and walk away and the devil gets to stay .. cunning is it not ? but we have found when they really do fall down in a moment of "no control -ie- its not just them doing it .It is always a good idea to pray on faith and command freedom in Jesus name for that person .for we have observed demons then manifest and come out .(the very fact they fall down helpless ..can be .. the manifestation of an evil spirit ) we know it is certainly not god blessing a person for continued willful and blatant sin
 
Upvote 0

Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2009
30,259
8,538
Canada
✟890,420.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Recently, I was hit with the worst betrayal I had ever experienced from another Christian. When I asked "Why?", my loved one who hurt me told me, "I just didn't fear God." This person was a Christian and had been active in outreaches for years.

In the past, we'd always disagree about whether God punishes, whether it was okay to be mad at God, whether it was possible for God to be angry with any of His children, and whether God punishes.

Why do so many churches rationalize God's character? As if we're trying to help Him to be the good God He is, we make unBiblical statements like "God doesn't punish" (even though Hebrews 12 tells us otherwise) and "We don't have to fear God" (even though Proverbs tells us that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom/knowledge.) Jesus told us to not fear him who can kill only the body, but to instead fear Him who can kill the body and cast the soul into hell.

Why have we come to a place of prettying the Bible up? I'm asking because I'm hurting by someone who never took it seriously until now that he's lost practically everything as a result of his sin.

I think the important thing to remember is that fear is the beginning of godly wisdom. Some people need to move on to embodying the love of God so they can have boldness on the day of judgment.
I regard this as spiritual maturity.

Even love teaches to avoid practices that cause harm to an individual, one thing about love is ... it allows us to make mistakes so we can know the will of God for us for ourselves. We aren't slaves anymore that need to be told what to do, we are children of God, and people forget that.

give room for God to chastize his own children.
 
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,968
10,837
77
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟867,272.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Recently, I was hit with the worst betrayal I had ever experienced from another Christian. When I asked "Why?", my loved one who hurt me told me, "I just didn't fear God." This person was a Christian and had been active in outreaches for years.

In the past, we'd always disagree about whether God punishes, whether it was okay to be mad at God, whether it was possible for God to be angry with any of His children, and whether God punishes.

Why do so many churches rationalize God's character? As if we're trying to help Him to be the good God He is, we make unBiblical statements like "God doesn't punish" (even though Hebrews 12 tells us otherwise) and "We don't have to fear God" (even though Proverbs tells us that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom/knowledge.) Jesus told us to not fear him who can kill only the body, but to instead fear Him who can kill the body and cast the soul into hell.

Why have we come to a place of prettying the Bible up? I'm asking because I'm hurting by someone who never took it seriously until now that he's lost practically everything as a result of his sin.

For the first 3-400 years of the early church the Christian experience was based on love. The Apostle John's last words were "We must love one another".
For all that time God was seen as a loving and forgiving God who loved to heal and deliver folks from demon influence. He was seen as a God of grace and mercy. While that was the foundation, the miraculous gifts of the Spirit flowed freely. Then another crowd took over the church and presented God as one who punished people for even the most minor sin. He was presented as something with a big stick ready to belt anyone who went against His law. This new crowd who ran the Church from Rome came under the influence of religious, controlling demons and the Holy Spirit was ignored. This is why the miraculous gifts of the Spirit faded away. It was only when Martin Luther blew that religious system apart and defeated the controlling demons and reintroduced the Holy Spirit into his ministry and churches that God was seen as a loving God of grace and mercy. The Pentecostals discovered that with more intensity and the Holy Spirit was able to reintroduce the miraculous gifts back into the Church through their witness and testimony. This is why the Pentecostal Church is the largest Protestant group in the world today. It is quite significant that the Love chapter in 1 Corinthians comes right in between the gifts chapters. Because there has been a resurgence of legalistic and judgemental stuff in some Pentecostal churches, the miraculous gifts has faded from them. Some of those churches have members who no longer speak in tongues. If you look into the affairs of those churches you will see division, gossiping, and unloving practices. Oral Roberts had the most powerful healing and deliverance ministry of the 20th Century. His teaching was that God is a good God who loves us and wants to give us miracles. If we are to be true representatives of Christ, we need to show that Jesus loves sinners and seeks to save them. He said that He did not come to judge the world but that the world through Him would be saved. There is a day of judgement coming where He will judge the world, but not yet. So, my view of the fear of God is in the context of loving and worshiping Him with total respect and commitment, not using the Gospel as a big stick to belt sinners over the head with hell fire preaching and judgementalism.
 
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,968
10,837
77
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟867,272.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
They were scared off by all the grace-preachers. I actually miss them, now that I am far more mature than when I started.

You wlll find that in the churches were there were and are hell-fire preachers, there are no miraculous healings or deliverances. The Holy Spirit works only in churches that preach the love and grace of God to sinners, and encourages the people to love one another. Hell-fire preaches misrespresent Christ who said that He did not come to judge the world but to save it through Himself.
 
Upvote 0

Victor E.

Disciple of Christ
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2016
2,712
404
32
U.S
✟223,711.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You wlll find that in the churches were there were and are hell-fire preachers, there are no miraculous healings or deliverances. The Holy Spirit works only in churches that preach the love and grace of God to sinners, and encourages the people to love one another. Hell-fire preaches misrespresent Christ who said that He did not come to judge the world but to save it through Himself.

"Love" and "Grace". Those two are not separated from the Truth. Word says to make disciples of all nations and watered down gospel is only good to a certain point, it doesn't give people a fiery passion to live a Christ-like lifestyle. It teaches people that God is only in the Church building and leads to stagnation and co-dependency. It teaches them that miracles, healing, and deliverance's only happen in the church building and not at hospitals and on the streets.

A very shaky foundation that is like the man who built his house on the sand, only to fall with a great crash. They have an appearance of godliness but they deny its power. You can be loving and keep yourself separate from becoming worldly. God's Word and Spirit does that for us if we seek with all our heart. The difference between the sheep and the goats is one is feeding themselves and the other is feeding the flock what Christ taught and what the Spirit teaches. Grace that does not lead to holiness is a seed that grows into a bad tree with bad fruit.

"Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character." I think it can be very easy for man to gulp the praises of men who have wandered away from the Truth. I don't judge anyone but we will all stand before the judgement seat of Christ and our lifestyle will reveal what it is we believed in. Love in action and Truth.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

1John2:4

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2016
1,204
361
48
New Braunfels, TX
✟40,108.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Recently, I was hit with the worst betrayal I had ever experienced from another Christian. When I asked "Why?", my loved one who hurt me told me, "I just didn't fear God." This person was a Christian and had been active in outreaches for years.

In the past, we'd always disagree about whether God punishes, whether it was okay to be mad at God, whether it was possible for God to be angry with any of His children, and whether God punishes.

Why do so many churches rationalize God's character? As if we're trying to help Him to be the good God He is, we make unBiblical statements like "God doesn't punish" (even though Hebrews 12 tells us otherwise) and "We don't have to fear God" (even though Proverbs tells us that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom/knowledge.) Jesus told us to not fear him who can kill only the body, but to instead fear Him who can kill the body and cast the soul into hell.

Why have we come to a place of prettying the Bible up? I'm asking because I'm hurting by someone who never took it seriously until now that he's lost practically everything as a result of his sin.
Isaiah 30:8
Now go, write it before them on a tablet,
And note it on a scroll,
That it may be for time to come,
Forever and ever:
9 That this is a rebellious people,
Lying children,
Children who will not hear the law of the Lord;
10 Who say to the seers, “Do not see,”
And to the prophets, “Do not prophesy to us right things;
Speak to us smooth things, prophesy deceits.
11 Get out of the way,
Turn aside from the path,
Cause the Holy One of Israel
To cease from before us.”

2 Timothy
4 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
 
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
14,725
6,631
Massachusetts
✟653,698.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
we make unBiblical statements like "God doesn't punish" (even though Hebrews 12 tells us otherwise)
I understand that Hebrews 12:4-11 is not only talking about punishing. But He corrects our character so we become like God in His love; I think 1 John 4:17 fits with this.

and "We don't have to fear God" (even though Proverbs tells us that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom/knowledge.)
Yes, the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. But >

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18)

Jesus told us to not fear him who can kill only the body, but to instead fear Him who can kill the body and cast the soul into hell.
amen

Why have we come to a place of prettying the Bible up? I'm asking because I'm hurting by someone who never took it seriously until now that he's lost practically everything as a result of his sin.
And this might help to show how much punishing really is able to do. A person of a wrong character will take it in a wrong way. A person who pays attention, only after getting hurt as a consequence, might be caring only or mainly about what he or she has lost, instead of first caring about pleasing God and loving any and all people.

So . . . have compassion > Hebrews 5:2. Be strong so wrong people can't have power over us to control and decide how we are and how we react.

Read and feed on what is the result of God's correction > Hebrews 12:4-11 < and trust our Father to make sure we get this, ourselves. And I offer how Paul needed to have a little talk with Jesus, about that thorn in the flesh thing > 2 Corinthians 12:7-15. That seems like it was hard, for Paul . . . because he needed to get strong in grace so things couldn't get to him. And then . . . I consider . . . in this grace Paul became able to love more and more unconditionally >

"And I will very gladly spend and be spent for your souls; though the more abundantly I love you, the less I am loved." (2 Corinthians 12:15)

Translations vary in their wording of this. I offer this translation :) because of how it can feed us to be strong, no matter what, for anyone. And I think of how Samuel knew he needed to pray for the Jews, even though they went against God > 1 Samuel 12:23.
 
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,968
10,837
77
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟867,272.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
"Love" and "Grace". Those two are not separated from the Truth. Word says to make disciples of all nations and watered down gospel is only good to a certain point, it doesn't give people a fiery passion to live a Christ-like lifestyle. It teaches people that God is only in the Church building and leads to stagnation and co-dependency. It teaches them that miracles, healing, and deliverance's only happen in the church building and not at hospitals and on the streets.

A very shaky foundation that is like the man who built his how on the sand, only to fall with a great crash. They have an appearance of godliness but they deny its power. You can be loving and keep yourself separate from becoming worldly. God's Word and Spirit does that for us if we seek with all our heart. The difference between the sheep and the goats is one is feeding themselves and the other is feeding the flock what Christ taught and what the Spirit teaches. Grace that does not lead to holiness is a seed that grows into a bad tree with bad fruit.

"Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character." I think it can be very easy for man to gulp the praises of men who have wandered away from the Truth. I don't judge anyone but we will all stand before the judgement seat of Christ and our lifestyle will reveal what it is we believed in. Love in action and Truth.

I'm not scared of the Judgment because it was the goodness of God that led me to Christ and repentance. While the church was run by demon inspired religious spirits during the thousand years after the 5th Century, God was depicted as an angry God who came after people with the big stick. During that time there were no miracles, except in a very few isolated instances. It is quite true that we must all give account of ourselves, and that it is appointed unto men once to die then after that is the Judgment. But if a person is living in fear of the Judgement, he is being attacked by religious and judgmental demons that are obscuring the intense love of Christ for sinners and for His church. I believe that the love and grace of God are the most powerful components of the gospel, and many more people have come to Christ through being loved into the kingdom by God and Christians, than those who have been frightened into it. I do not believe that the fear of God is defined as a type of terror. It is more of a loving respect for Him and His Word. Perfect love casts out fear. Churches that are teaching the we should be afraid of God and that He will "come and get us" if we don't do the right thing, are teaching from a demonic religious spirit and not from the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit faithfully represents Christ as He showed Himself during His earthly ministry. The only ones that Jesus was angry with were the arrogant religious ones who ruled people with strict rules and told people that God would punish them if they failed to comply. There are churches like that today who say they are teaching the "fear" of God. They are just the same as the hypocritical Pharisees of Jesus day, and He would have the same attitude toward those church as He did to those hypocrites in His day.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,968
10,837
77
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟867,272.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Isaiah 30:8
Now go, write it before them on a tablet,
And note it on a scroll,
That it may be for time to come,
Forever and ever:
9 That this is a rebellious people,
Lying children,
Children who will not hear the law of the Lord;
10 Who say to the seers, “Do not see,”
And to the prophets, “Do not prophesy to us right things;
Speak to us smooth things, prophesy deceits.
11 Get out of the way,
Turn aside from the path,
Cause the Holy One of Israel
To cease from before us.”

2 Timothy
4 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

Jesus quoted that Isaiah scripture to describe the religious leaders of His day. We have to be careful about quoting Old Testament scripture out of is proper context because the devil can quote scripture too. I don't believe that those who are converted to Christ can be described by the Isaiah scripture.

I think what Paul wrote to the Thessalonians gives a balance to your quotes of the Timothy scripture, where Paul is warning him about false teachers and prophets in the early Church. I think that the reference is "for" us, that is, for our education, but not necessarily "to" us as a direct instruction to every believer. We have to put these references into their proper historical context to understand why Paul gave Timothy those instructions. Then we can know how we can apply the principles to our present-day church.

Here is a better encouragement for modern Christians:

1 Thessalonians 5:16-28
16 Rejoice evermore.

17 Pray without ceasing.

18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

19 Quench not the Spirit.

20 Despise not prophesyings.

21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

25 Brethren, pray for us.

26 Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss.

27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.

28 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Victor E.

Disciple of Christ
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2016
2,712
404
32
U.S
✟223,711.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I'm not scared of the Judgment because it was the goodness of God that led me to Christ and repentance. While the church was run by demon inspired religious spirits during the thousand years after the 5th Century, God was depicted as an angry God who came after people with the big stick. During that time there were no miracles, except in a very few isolated instances. It is quite true that we must all give account of ourselves, and that it is appointed unto men once to die then after that is the Judgment. But if a person is living in fear of the Judgement, he is being attacked by religious and judgmental demons that are obscuring the intense love of Christ for sinners and for His church. I believe that the love and grace of God are the most powerful components of the gospel, and many more people have come to Christ through being loved into the kingdom by God and Christians, than those who have been frightened into it. I do not believe that the fear of God is defined as a type of terror. It is more of a loving respect for Him and His Word. Perfect love casts out fear. Churches that are teaching the we should be afraid of God and that He will "come and get us" if we don't do the right thing, are teaching from a demonic religious spirit and not from the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit faithfully represents Christ as He showed Himself during His earthly ministry. The only ones that Jesus was angry with were the arrogant religious ones who ruled people with strict rules and told people that God would punish them if they failed to comply. There are churches like that today who say they are teaching the "fear" of God. They are just the same as the hypocritical Pharisees of Jesus day, and He would have the same attitude toward those church as He did to those hypocrites in His day.

Hmm Christ's greatest act of love was to deliver the truth tempered in fear to the religious leaders when they didn't repent, as a last resort. (Matthew 23) and Jude 1:23.

Proverbs 9:10- "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight."

Perfect love casts out fear from obedience in love. I understand the religious spirit that has greatly obstructed the message of the gospel of grace but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. I do agree that Love is the best way. Love rejoices in the Truth.

" The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him,
The spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The spirit of counsel and strength,
The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD." Isaiah 11:2.

Filial fear is good. A reverence for Abba. I do not think it wise to change God's Word. Fear of punishment has a purpose.
 
Upvote 0

dysert

Member
Feb 29, 2012
6,233
2,238
USA
✟120,484.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
> Why Have So Many Churches Stopped Teaching The Fear Of God?

I think the answer to that is simple. It's not a popular message, and most churches want to be popular (i.e., attract people).

But I'm not sure you can blame a church's lack for someone's sin. People are going to sin whether they know of the fear of God or not. They know that God forgives, so when the flesh gets the better of them (and it will), the fear of God is superseded by the desire of the flesh. "I'll worry about the consequences after the fact." It happens all the time regardless of the church and regardless if someone is "slain in the spirit" one day or not. None of us has yet "arrived", so we'll all fall short.
 
Upvote 0