Why Have So Many Churches Stopped Teaching The Fear Of God?

[1John2:4]

Jesus quote that Isaiah scripture to describe the religious leaders of His day. We have to be careful about quoting Old Testament scripture out of is proper context because the devil can quote scripture too. I don't believe that those who are converted to Christ can be described by the Isaiah scripture.

That is not the same verse that Jesus quoted out of Isaiah. The verse He quoted had to do with blind guides who do not understand what they are teaching and put the commandments of men above the commandments of God.

Isaiah 29:13.
"Therefore the Lord said :
In as much these people draw near with thier mouths and honor Me with thier lips, but thier hearts far from Me, And thier fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men. "

Jesus also speaks of the same thing in Matthew 15.
3 "Why do you transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? For God commanded saying 'honor your father and your mother' ; and he who curses father or mother let him be put to death.' But you say, whoever says to father of mother "whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God" - then he need not honor his father or mother' thus you have made the commandment of God no effect by your tradition. Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophecy about you saying" then He quotes Isaiah.

What I quoted was Isaiah 30 which speak of a rebellious people who love to walk in lawlessness and want teachers and preachers to speak smooth things, to justify sin and make it OK. I belive it is the same, we can learn and need to learn from the mistakes made by Israel. Ecclesiastes 1:9 That which has been is what will be, that which is done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.
We learn from the Word of God not discount it and say it is not for us today, remember "All scripture is given for inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, for correction, for instruction in rightousness." 2 Timothy 3:16.

As for the devil quoting scripture, I am not really sure how to respond to that statement. I am not sure how Biblical that statement is, I have never read that in scripture. I would be curious to see how you determined that idea.

Thanks for your reply, I have to get to work now but I will get around to the rest of your post when I get some time.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Hmm Christ's greatest act of love was to deliver the truth tempered in fear to the religious leaders when they didn't repent, as a last resort. (Matthew 23) and Jude 1:23.

Proverbs 9:10- "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight."

Perfect love casts out fear from obedience in love. I understand the religious spirit that has greatly obstructed the message of the gospel of grace but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. I do agree that Love is the best way. Love rejoices in the Truth.

" The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him,
The spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The spirit of counsel and strength,
The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD." Isaiah 11:2.

Filial fear is good. A reverence for Abba. I do not think it wise to change God's Word. Fear of punishment has a purpose.

In the context of the "perfect love casts out all fear" is how a person is going to be at the Judgement. If we have embraced the love of God and we love our brothers and sisters in Christ, then we will have no fear, but confidence at the Judgement. When a person accepts Christ, all fear of punishment is gone, because his or her sins have been washed away, the person is clothed with the righteousness of Christ, is given full standing with God without fear, guilt or inferiority; therefore, in the life of the believer, there is no punishment applicable. Jesus received the full weight of God's anger at sin, and the full punishment on our behalf. There is no more anger or punishment extended to believers. Religious folks hate this concept because they like to control others through the fear of punishment if people don't follow their man-made religious rules. A genuinely born again Christian cannot go back into sin, According to John in his first letter. He is given a new heart that wants to do the will of God in his life. John says that if a person goes back into sin it means that he or she never was in the Father, nor was the Father in that person from the start. It is there in his letter. You see, there are many professing to be Christian believers, but God is the one who knows the hearts. Even Pentecostals and Charismatics can be in this category. Many may have the correct doctrines and appear to be devout believers and we think they are just backsliding when they turn away from Christ and go back into sin. But what if John is right, that they were never truly born again in the first place, but had "got religion" instead of being truly born again of the Spirit of God? The parable of the wheat and the weeds bares this out. The weeds in the parable were so close to what the wheat looked like it was too difficult to tell them apart; but there will come a day of judgement when God will sort them out. For the first two years of my Christian life, I was a good Pentecostal in every way, but I did not know God on a personal level. It was only when I got before Him on the middle of a park in the middle of the night and reached out to Him that He revealed Himself to me and told me that He was waiting for me to get through the religious stuff and come directly to Him. So you see, there are many to have the absolute appearance of being devout, Spirit filled believers, but God is the One who knows the heart of people.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That is not the same verse that Jesus quoted out of Isaiah. The verse He quoted had to do with blind guides who do not understand what they are teaching and put the commandments of men above the commandments of God.

Isaiah 29:13.
"Therefore the Lord said :
In as much these people draw near with thier mouths and honor Me with thier lips, but thier hearts far from Me, And thier fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men. "

Jesus also speaks of the same thing in Matthew 15.
3 "Why do you transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? For God commanded saying 'honor your father and your mother' ; and he who curses father or mother let him be put to death.' But you say, whoever says to father of mother "whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God" - then he need not honor his father or mother' thus you have made the commandment of God no effect by your tradition. Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophecy about you saying" then He quotes Isaiah.

What I quoted was Isaiah 30 which speak of a rebellious people who love to walk in lawlessness and want teachers and preachers to speak smooth things, to justify sin and make it OK. I belive it is the same, we can learn and need to learn from the mistakes made by Israel. Ecclesiastes 1:9 That which has been is what will be, that which is done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.
We learn from the Word of God not discount it and say it is not for us today, remember "All scripture is given for inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, for correction, for instruction in rightousness." 2 Timothy 3:16.

As for the devil quoting scripture, I am not really sure how to respond to that statement. I am not sure how Biblical that statement is, I have never read that in scripture. I would be curious to see how you determined that idea.

Thanks for your reply, I have to get to work now but I will get around to the rest of your post when I get some time.

The point I'm making is that genuine born again believers are not rebellious because they have been given a new heart that has the overall desire to do the will of God in their lives. In ourselves we do fall short, but that is why we are given the righteousness of Christ as a covering for our failure and shortcomings. If we try and be good a perfect of ourselves, all we have is a type of religious self-righteousness, and according to the Scripture, all our own righteousness is as filthy rags to God. Jesus quoted Isaiah to the self-righteous religious leaders who thought they had arrived and had the full truth, but were, in fact rebellious because they were rejecting Him. Yes, the Scripture is written for our education, instruction and admonishment, but we really do need to sort out which ones are there to teach us by example, and the ones that are directed at us to literally follow.

 

[1John2:4]

The point I'm making is that genuine born again believers are not rebellious because they have been given a new heart that has the overall desire to do the will of God in their lives. In ourselves we do fall short, but that is why we are given the righteousness of Christ as a covering for our failure and shortcomings. If we try and be good a perfect of ourselves, all we have is a type of religious self-righteousness, and according to the Scripture, all our own righteousness is as filthy rags to God. Jesus quoted Isaiah to the self-righteous religious leaders who thought they had arrived and had the full truth, but were, in fact rebellious because they were rejecting Him. Yes, the Scripture is written for our education, instruction and admonishment, but we really do need to sort out which ones are there to teach us by example, and the ones that are directed at us to literally follow.

I don't think we are discussing the same passages in scripture. What is written is the warning against putting the traditions of man over the commandment of God in both verses you mentioned. Matthew 15 and Isaiah 29. Do you not agree that we can learn that God does not like it when we put our man made traditions over His Word? I belive that is a pretty valuable nuget.

Why wouldn't we litterly follow His instructions? Who gives us the authority or pick and choose which ones to follow? Is it our place to determine what is sin or does God difine sin? According to 1 John 3:4 sin is transgression of Gods law.

The problem with the Pharisees was they were hypocrites who puts man's tradition over God's instuctions. They said to walk in the way of God but they were walking in lawlessness. With their traditions they put heavy burdons on the people. Burdons that were not part of the law but made up traditions, traditions of the elders, oral law, today it is know as the Talmud and the Mishnah.

Gods instructions are not burdensome.
Jeremiah 6:16 Thus says the Lord: "Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it; Then you will find rest for your souls.

Matthew 11:29
Take my yoke upon you and learn from Me, For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. And you will find rest for your souls.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I don't think we are discussing the same passages in scripture. What is written is the warning against putting the traditions of man over the commandment of God in both verses you mentioned. Matthew 15 and Isaiah 29. Do you not agree that we can learn that God does not like it when we put our man made traditions over His Word? I belive that is a pretty valuable nuget.

Why wouldn't we litterly follow His instructions? Who gives us the authority or pick and choose which ones to follow? Is it our place to determine what is sin or does God difine sin? According to 1 John 3:4 sin is transgression of Gods law.

The problem with the Pharisees was they were hypocrites who puts man's tradition over God's instuctions. They said to walk in the way of God but they were walking in lawlessness. With their traditions they put heavy burdons on the people. Burdons that were not part of the law but made up traditions, traditions of the elders, oral law, today it is know as the Talmud and the Mishnah.

Gods instructions are not burdensome.
Jeremiah 6:16 Thus says the Lord: "Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it; Then you will find rest for your souls.

Matthew 11:29
Take my yoke upon you and learn from Me, For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. And you will find rest for your souls.

I am the senior elder of a traditional church and I can see clearly how those traditions hinder the free working of the Holy Spirit in my church. I have been quite vocal to my people how that these traditions are stopping the work of the Holy Spirit, turning our church into a synagogue instead of a place where God can really show His presence. They haven't kicked me out yet so they must be listening to what I am telling them, although they have not yet come to the place where they can get completely free from their traditions. I can't make them do that. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. The more we speak out about it, the better the message is going to get out there; but we will suffer more hatred and persecution from the self-righteous, religious traditionalists who think their ceremonies and rituals are more important than the free and powerful working of the Holy Spirit. I don't think I am being bold enough yet, because I have not experienced opposition that would happen if the devil is feeling threatened.

 

[1John2:4]

I am the senior elder of a traditional church and I can see clearly how those traditions hinder the free working of the Holy Spirit in my church. I have been quite vocal to my people how that these traditions are stopping the work of the Holy Spirit, turning our church into a synagogue instead of a place where God can really show His presence. They haven't kicked me out yet so they must be listening to what I am telling them, although they have not yet come to the place where they can get completely free from their traditions. I can't make them do that. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. The more we speak out about it, the better the message is going to get out there; but we will suffer more hatred and persecution from the self-righteous, religious traditionalists who think their ceremonies and rituals are more important than the free and powerful working of the Holy Spirit. I don't think I am being bold enough yet, because I have not experienced opposition that would happen if the devil is feeling threatened.

Dear brother in Christ, I am not sure which traditions you are speaking of. Is your church staring to keep the Moedim (holy days)?

The traditions Jesus was against were the ones put ahead of God's commandments not God's actual Instuctions. My mom practices ribinical Judism and she does the tradition of the washing of hands. In my head I giggle a little because I remember what Jesus says about the traditions of the elders. That is the one He points out.

I am sorry that you are being hurt by the things that your church is doing I hope you find reconciliation

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Dear brother in Christ, I am not sure which traditions you are speaking of. Is your church staring to keep the Moedim (holy days)?

The traditions Jesus was against were the ones put ahead of God's commandments not God's actual Instuctions. My mom practices ribinical Judism and she does the tradition of the washing of hands. In my head I giggle a little because I remember what Jesus says about the traditions of the elders. That is the one He points out.

I am sorry that you are being hurt by the things that your church is doing I hope you find reconciliation

Ours are more traditional evangelical traditions where services are programmed, not with a liturgy as such but with a strict order of service that does not allow the Holy Spirit to move freely.

 

[1John2:4]

Ours are more traditional evangelical traditions where services are programmed, not with a liturgy as such but with a strict order of service that does not allow the Holy Spirit to move freely.

His Spirit is also our comforter, let Him comfort you in your time of sadness regarding your church thanks so much for taking the time to discuss with me I hope you have a blessed day.
Shalom

 

[dayhiker]

To me its hard to fear a person I love and who loves me. So I don't fear God.
But why would I hurt, betray someone I love? I don't get that. Since God has filled my heart with love I really try to not hurt anyone including myself. Now I had to learn that if someone wanted me to be Miss America and was going to be hurt because I wasn't that, then I'm sorry, but I'm a guy and I own who I am. So I'm not going to betray who God created me to be. But that desire of theirs is really their problem and not mine.

That's why I couldn't preach the fear of God the way most people think of it.

 

[CGL1023]

Amen. Thank you. I do need someone to pray with me in agreement for him. I don't want to see his ruin, though. His ruin would impact me and his kids. He's my husband.

Praying and will pray for your situation per Matthew 18:19

 

[CGL1023]

To me its hard to fear a person I love and who loves me. So I don't fear God.
But why would I hurt, betray someone I love? I don't get that. Since God has filled my heart with love I really try to not hurt anyone including myself. Now I had to learn that if someone wanted me to be Miss America and was going to be hurt because I wasn't that, then I'm sorry, but I'm a guy and I own who I am. So I'm not going to betray who God created me to be. But that desire of theirs is really their problem and not mine.

That's why I couldn't preach the fear of God the way most people think of it.

I believe the "fear" in "fear of the Lord" generally means awe and reverence.

 

[tturt]

foundational - How to have the fear of the Lord:
"My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;
2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;
3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;
5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God" Pro 2:1-5.

 

[tturt]

An interesting idea -
Jesus, while on earth, had the fear of the Lord. One way -

'And the Child grew and became strong in spirit, filled with wisdom; and the grace (favor and spiritual blessing) of God was upon Him." Luk 2:40

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom (Psa 111:10, Pro 1:7, 9:10).

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Why Have So Many Churches Stopped Teaching The Fear Of God?

Spiritual maturity.

Love matured casts out all fear.

Fear of the Lord does not give you confidence on the day of judgment, but love matured or perfected does.

 

[tturt]

We decide if we have the fear of the Lord (Psa 25:12, Pro 1:29). Then God teaches those who fear Him. (Psa 25:14, Pro 1). So it would take spiritual maturity. Having the fear of the Lord is loving Him, giving Him honor, respect, devotion, right worship, serving Him, being submitted, and obeying His Word, His will.

- Having the fear of the Lord means we love what He loves and hates what He hates (Psa 97:10, Pro 6:16-19).
- "...we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:" Heb 22:28 Having the fear of the Lord is the true and acceptable way of worshipping the Lord (Benson commentary).
- It "...prolongs one’s days..." (Pro 10:27).
- "In the reverent and worshipful fear of the Lord there is strong confidence, and His children shall always have a place of refuge." (Pro 14:26)
- It causes men to depart from evil (Pro 16:6),
- "By humility and the fear of the Lord are riches, and honour, and life" (Pro 22:4), His blessings (Psac112:1), and His mercy (Psa 103:11, Luk 1:50).
- "The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant" (Psa 25).
- Having the fear of the Lord is a treasure (Isa 33:6l, and
- churches walked in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:31).

How to have the fear of the Lord:" (Pro 2:1-5). Having the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, knowledge, instruction, and is the fountain of life (Pro 1:7, 9:10, 14:27). We're to teach our children (Psa 34:11).

"The reverent, worshipful fear of the Lord leads to life, and he who has it rests satisfied;
he cannot be visited with [actual] evil." Pro 19:23

Plus "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him,, and make our abode with him." John 14:23

 

[lismore]

Why have we come to a place of prettying the Bible up?

A good starting point I think is for a church or fellowship to go through the bible a chapter at a time, looking at everything in it's context with expository preaching.

The alternative, taking one verse from here out of context, another from there, to build whatever teaching seems popular at the time sadly seems to happen quite often.

When the bible is taken out of context it can be made to say anything. God Bless