Why hasn't Christ returned yet?

[Jipsah]

Alien deception is not that far fetched given that Hollywood is subtly preparing the minds of humans to accept these demonic deceptors as our "saviors" to help us develop clean energy, end wars, hunger, advance technology, and all that other stuff New Agers look for (I used to be among them).

Which aliens would those be? Klingons? Ferengi? Shadows? Vorlons? The Barsoomians? Daleks? or any of the hundreds of Hollywood aliens who exist only so our intrepid space warriors will have someone to shoot at? Yoo don't watch much sci fi, do you? <Laugh.>

 

[Jipsah]

Oh yeah? God can't lie. There.

Scripture on that?

 

[Steeno7]

Scripture on that?

LOL. You really need scripture for that?? Okay.....

Titus 1:2
"in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago"

 

[sunshine456]

Matthew 24:36King James Version (KJV)
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Praise be to GOD the heavenly father and his son lord JESUS CHRIST forever>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[Steeno7]

John 20:28-29

“My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed. Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen Me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing Me.”

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

I can't change the fact that Scripture is clear that nobody knows the day or hour except God the Father. Those are Christ's words, not mine or Lutheranism's. I also can't change the fact that when talking about signs the Lord referred not to His coming but to the destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple which happened nearly two millennia ago--it's not in my powers to alter the historical record.

You take such a small view of the Olivet discourse. The destruction of Jerusalem was just an example of the calamities that will occur on the path to the last day of which is the proper purpose of the whole of Jesus' teachings in Mat 24. You persist in ignoring the whole concept of what a sign is, to be noticed and direct our actions. Now you deny Jesus listed signs of his coming. I will repeat the quote of scripture from post 39 that you ignore. I will again highlight in red the question from the disciples that Jesus answers listing signs of his coming.

Mat 24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
​

You can say what you say are facts all you want, but you have no reply to what all of scripture says.

Nor can I change the fact that when the Lord does talk about His coming He says it will be as in the days of Noah, people marrying and being given in marriage until suddenly and without warning the flood came--two will be in a field, one will be taken and the other one left.

That's Scripture.

-CryptoLutheran

That is just part of scripture. If you think Jesus' comparison of Noah and the flood with the last day so good, maybe you should study what else scripture says of Noah.

Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.

2 Peter 2:5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;​

If you had any clue what a sign was you would understand that Noah built a huge 500 foot sign. If this took 50 years to build, it would not have been missed. He gave Noah 120 years notice of the flood. Do you think a preacher of righteousness would not use that time to try and convince the wicked to repent because the end is near? Do you really think no one noticed the ark for 50 years and never asked Noah about it?

Scriptures stating that the people of the flood were unaware has tricked you to think that God did not warn the people or give signs. There was a big sign and I am certain that Noah gave warnings, but the people ignored the signs and warnings and continued in there sin. Likewise you encourage people to ignore the signs of the end times.

Lastly learn from Noah that the saved did know when the end was coming, maybe not the day or hour, but certainly the year.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

If you want to believe the people constantly predicting the End Of The World are tools of Satan, that's fine with me. Something has to explain their track record for getting it wrong.

John the Baptist taught it.
Jesus taught it.
The disciples taught it.
The disciples believed it.

The message the Jesus will come soon and for all to repent is timeless and I laugh at none that preach it.
Don't use the few misguided people that predict the end on a certain day as an excuse to dispose of the truth of the message, that we should all repent for the end is near.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

The point of Biblical prophesy isn't to predict the future, but to give a message.

Not true. Prophesy does predict future events, but not always with the exactness that some think when they predict a certain last day. But, learn from Daniel. He noted a prophesy and acted on it.

Dan 9:2 in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, understood from the Scriptures, according to the word of the Lord given to Jeremiah the prophet, that the desolation of Jerusalem would last seventy years. 3 So I turned to the Lord God and pleaded with him in prayer and petition, in fasting, and in sackcloth and ashes.
​

I would love to here what you think is the "message" of end times prophecies.

 

[SnowyMacie]

I would love to here what you think is the "message" of end times prophecies.

The message of Revelation is that while even though it may not look like it and that all Hell is breaking loose, God is still in control and will ultimately overcome all evil.

 

[stevenfrancis]

Prophecies regarding the return of Christ remain unfulfilled; indeed, some of them are downright confusing. It's nearly 2000 years later and obviously we've developed a lot of technology which makes it seem like man, not God, is in control. We've discovered that the world is a lot bigger than we thought in the 1st century, so any sort of universal coming (the sort prophesied in Scripture) must be of absolutely immense magnitude (like something on par with Noah's Flood). Thoughts?

It's a great question, (hence the like), but unfortunately it is question that will not be answered until the last day and the consummation of time when we see face to face. The most plausible theory shared among many theologians is because of God's mercy. That is given enough time, and enough exposure to the Gospel, more souls will answer the call to Christ, and seek the narrow way, repenting of their sins.

For what it's worth, I don't think we're too far from the Christian eschatological events. We don't know the day or time, and for good reason, we are not privy to that. Chief among those reasons is mans natural inertia and tendency to procrastination in all things.

We're allowed to guess based on signs, so long as we don't make an idol of it, nor look at it with fear. There is nothing to fear about the end. Pure love (God) drives away all fear. If I had to guess, I say we were close. Probably 2 generations or less. Just a couple more things to line up. I'd start watching public figures who are enormously popular world wide and claim to have solutions to all the worlds problems, and shy away from those sorts like the plague, because they will eventually equate themselves with Christ. I'd watch the rate of Jewish to Christian conversions. Major wars or battles from major wars to be fought at Meggido/Armageddon, etc. These things will all be clues. But mostly, John told us to stay clear of idols. Paul told us to put on the armor of Christ. Christ told us to pick up our cross daily and follow Him. These are things we want to be found doing when the master returns.

We know one more thing. When it's getting REALLY close that it's going to be VERY painful. And because of this, the Lord will "shorten the days", or else no-one would make it through the test.

We also know that our personal judgement and eschatological event could be at any moment, so we must always be prepared.

 

[Luke17:37]

But Scripture also says...and a thousand years is but a day. (I just want to emphasize His return as a thief in the night...very unexpected.)

His return is only as a thief in the night for the blind...

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11
5 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.

Hebrews 10:24-25
24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

 

[Luke17:37]

Prophecies regarding the return of Christ remain unfulfilled

Yes. But that's just because God is patient. See 2 Peter 3:3-9.

... indeed, some of them [prophecies regarding the return of Christ] are downright confusing.

I think the prophecies of His coming are similar to the parables--meant to keep those spiritually blind in a state of blindness, but meant to illuminate those who have eyes to see. Ask God for understanding and wisdom and pursue it relentlessly.

It's nearly 2000 years later and obviously we've developed a lot of technology which makes it seem like man, not God, is in control.

God is always in control. I hope you are speaking of others not yourself. Whoever thinks man is in control is blinded by the enemy.

We've discovered that the world is a lot bigger than we thought in the 1st century, so any sort of universal coming (the sort prophesied in Scripture) must be of absolutely immense magnitude (like something on par with Noah's Flood). Thoughts?

Jesus taught us that all would see His coming (like lateral lightning) and many would die and be eaten by vultures (the taken are the destroyed... like the days of Noah, Luke 17:26-37, Matthew 24:36-44). This is in contrast to the false returns, limited to geographical and spatial locations, etc., and capable of being missed (Matthew 24:23-28).

Matthew 24:30-31
30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Luke17:37]

My thoughts on this are only that Jesus said that no one knew the day or hour of his return and told many parables about being ready.
He wants us to live each day for, and with, him, listening to him, using our gifts to serve him and being open to any opportunities he gives us to speak of him/witness to him. If we do this; if we live for him, walk in his light and teach others to do the same, then we will be ready for him - whenever he may return.

I don't understand any of these so called prophecies from Daniel/Revelation or how if we add x to y, convert it into years, take away z and multiply by the first number you thought of, you can somehow work out the year/century of his return. I feel so sorry for those who listened to Harold Camping and sold possessions, expecting the Lord's return on a certain day and who may, for all we know, have turned away from the Bible as a result. I feel sorry for anyone who has been hurt because apparent prophecies and promises on this topic have come to nothing.

I wouldn't tell others how to spend their time, and if they really believe it's important to try to work out what Jesus said cannot be known; that's up to them. My own view? Get on with living for the Lord and growing in faith - and don't worry about it.

I agree that predicting a specific day of Jesus' return is ridiculous, but Jesus gave us Revelation to show His servants things that will soon take place (see Revelation 1:1). He gave us lots of warnings associated with the time just before His return (Matthew 24). These warnings and information was given with a purpose to the Church. We have no excuse to be ignorant of the things He does tell us.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

The message of Revelation is that while even though it may not look like it and that all Hell is breaking loose, God is still in control and will ultimately overcome all evil.

Sounds like the Lutheran dismissal of Revelation. I say; if one has read Genesis through Jude and does not have a firm grasp of the concept that despite the suffering in the world, God is in control then there is no point in reading Revelation because you are deaf.

If you want a more accurate synopsis of Revelation start by reading what Jesus said to introduce the book and with what words he concluded it.

Rev 1:3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

Rev 22:7 “Look, I am coming soon! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy written in this scroll.”

10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near.

12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.

20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”​

Jesus can't be more clear than in verse 20.
Also note the similarity to what Jesus first preached.

Mat 4:17 From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”
​

Now let's go back to my actual question to you.

I would love to here what you think is the "message" of end times prophecies.

The book of Revelation is not the sum of end times prophecies. I had been going round and round with Crypto on the Olivet Discourse. The reason why I keep going back to it is because Jesus is quite clear in calling these prophesies to be signs of the end. I now ask you to think what a sign is. If traffic signs were hidden in bushes and ignored by drivers, would that serve any purpose at all? You might as well do without them.

 

[Bible2+]

AnticipateHisComing said in post 68:

The destruction of Jerusalem was just an example of the calamities that will occur on the path to the last day of which is the proper purpose of the whole of Jesus' teachings in Mat 24.

Good point.

For just as the highly detailed tribulation events of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 find no historical fulfillment, so the tribulation events of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 find no historical fulfillment. For example, Luke 21:24 refers to the same future treading down of Jerusalem by the Gentiles as Revelation 11:2b, during the Antichrist's future, literal 42-month worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), the details of which time period are shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13). The myriad details of these chapters have never been fulfilled. Similarly, Jesus' 2nd coming and the church's gathering together (rapture) in Matthew 24:30-31 (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) have never been fulfilled, but must occur "immediately after" the future tribulation of Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6).

 

[Bible2+]

stevenfrancis said in post 72:
We know one more thing. When it's getting REALLY close that it's going to be VERY painful. And because of this, the Lord will "shorten the days", or else no-one would make it through the test.

That's right.

And Mark 13:20 can mean that all flesh on the earth would die if the Lord hadn't already shortened, as in "he hath shortened" (Mark 13:20b), the number of days of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18, Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. That is, the Lord could have already determined, from the beginning of Creation (cf. Isaiah 46:10), that he will return on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). And the Lord will return "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), immediately after its final event, the worldwide destruction during the 7th vial (Revelation 16:19, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6). So Mark 13:20 can mean that if the Lord hadn't shortened the number of days of the tribulation, all flesh on the earth would die during the 7th vial's aftermath, which could be a nuclear-winter scenario (which the Lord will miraculously prevent at his return) brought on by the 10 kings of the Antichrist's empire nuking the cities of the nations at the 7th vial (Revelation 17:16-17a, Revelation 16:19).

 

[Luke17:37]

And Mark 13:20 can mean that all flesh on the earth would die if the Lord hadn't already shortened, as in "he hath shortened" (Mark 13:20b), the number of days of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18, Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21.

Jesus shortened the days, but not necessarily the number of days. Perhaps He will shorten the hours of sunlight, like as suggested in the 4th trumpet:

Revelation 8:12
12 Then the fourth angel sounded: And a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them were darkened. A third of the day did not shine, and likewise the night.

 

[Luke17:37]

The message of Revelation is that while even though it may not look like it and that all Hell is breaking loose, God is still in control and will ultimately overcome all evil.

This essence of this message doesn't really help Christians to prepare for the time of the Tribulation, though. Every Christian hearing that synopsis will be happy but insufficiently prepared. They could assume all Christians will overcome with Jesus. But many who consider themselves Christians will fall away because of deception or tribulation (Matthew 24:4-5, Matthew 24:9-13, Matthew 24:23-26).

"In the end, God wins" is true for God, but that wasn't God's point in writing it (see Revelation 1:1) and so it's pointless to summarize Revelation that way. He wrote it to tell His servants the things that will soon take place so we won't be blindsided.

Knowing that Christians will be killed because they do not take the mark of the beast (needed to buy and sell) is important. We should expect hunger and being slain for our faith, should we enter the Tribulation. (We can't expect to be one of the 144,000 sealed for protection from the trumpet/bowl plagues). Knowing the plagues will also help us identify and track the progress of the Tribulation. Knowing there's an end in sight will help, and seeing the fulfillments will encourage us in a way, because God is faithful to His Word. If my understanding of Daniel 9 and 13 (together with Revelation 13) is correct, the entire Tribulation is only seven years, but the last three and a half years are when the Antichrist (beast of the sea, I believe) has set up the abomination that causes desolation and when the False Prophet (beast of the earth) enforces the mark of the beast (and kills the Christians, who refuse it).