Why Evolution is True

[szechuan]

What evidence do you have for last week? Delirious denial is of no value. Welcome to the year of our Lord, 2014.

Says the person without Evidence.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Not all miracles are equal!

Never claimed they were -- why, did you think I did?

Jesus kills a fig tree -- small miracle; God killed all the firstborn of Egypt -- big miracle.

Why do you think all Egypt capitulated and the hard hearted Pharoah surrendered unconditionally!!!!?

Because God finally stopped hardening Pharaoh's heart and gave him back his free will -- temporarily, of course.

 

[dad]

Says the person without Evidence.

We actually do not need your opinion about whether God provided man evidences for His word.

 

[dad]

Never claimed they were -- why, did you think I did?

You offered the tricks of Jambres as something equal to the miracle of God's snake.

Jesus kills a fig tree -- small miracle; God killed all the firstborn of Egypt -- big miracle.

God takes over the earth forever...big miracle. God makes butterflies...big miracle. The small part merely involves your opinion.

Because God finally stopped hardening Pharaoh's heart and gave him back his free will -- temporarily, of course.

Keep us posted with your demented fantasies and attempted translations will you?

 

[TLK Valentine]

You offered the tricks of Jambres as something equal to the miracle of God's snake.

[

Sticks turned to snakes -- same trick.

God takes over the earth forever...big miracle. God makes butterflies...big miracle. The small part merely involves your opinion.

Ok then, everything's a miracle -- have it your way.

Keep us posted with your demented fantasies and attempted translations will you?

Not my fault you don't read Exodus... if God didn't harden Pharaoh's heart, then who did?

 

[stevevw]

Let's just say life started from nothing. So what? Does that make life any less significant?

The point is how does life start from nothing. Its like saying your garage produced a car from nothing and it drove itself down the road.

Science gets updated the Bible doesn't.

Thats the good thing about God He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. He doesn't start change the goal posts all the time.

Science will update itself when they will test new hypothesis to see if its valid. But just like religion the people behind it can sometimes use it wrongly to make assertions that are not true. Like with multi universes and all the other hypothesis out there at the moment to explain what they have found with quantum physics and the universe. Even though they are only hypothesis they have a few different ones and carry one like one of them is definitely true and its a matter of time before its proven. But they dont have any direct evidence it is. Still some talk like its fact. So they have come up with a few way out ideas and the choice is between one way out hypothesis or another one. So one of them is propose as being correct. What if none are where do they go then and how could they get things so wrong. Remember they are basing their hypothesis on calculated info for what they are finding so they are not just ideas that have come out of the blue.

No, because it's the most Logical and Rational explanation. Who knows. Science is still working on it, sure there is a lot we don't know but we also figured quite a lot due to Science.

But what they are basing it on isnt logical. Quantum physic goes into things that are not making sense. So maybe the answers are also not logical.

Quantum physics never stops not making sense. But why? How does this lack of sense make sense? Well, one explanation for this lack of sense within quantum physics, is that we as humans are simply incapable of understanding certain things - some things may be as incomprehensible to us as calculus to snails.
Philosophysics: Why Quantum Physics Doesn't Make Sense

But at the same time the quantum world is sort of an indirect evidence of God. Because it points to other dimensions at work that are beyond our understanding that is what people say God is as well. Even the bible says this and to me this is just confirming God and what the bible says through the science.

For example.
It is the believe that life and biology are central to reality and that life creates the universe, not the other way round.

Read more: Quantum physics proves that there IS an afterlife, claims scientist | Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

The bible says John 1:1​

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of first fruits of all he created.

So the bible is saying that life itself was created by the word of God and spoken into existence. So that is similar to what some scientists are saying about quantum physics in that our existences or consciousnesses has created the universe and not the universe creating us.

I guess this is why Religious people tend to abandon logic and reason.

No that is what non believers will say by taking this to the extreme all the time. Religious people will use logic and common sense as much as anyone. Non religious people can abandon logic and common sense as much as anyone through love or many other beliefs and unreal ideas like aliens, ghosts and new age fads.

But its the point at which logic and science will get to and then what is beyond that thats important. Like with quantum physics we get to a point where the logic and normal physics dont add up or can be applied. Like with how the universe and life started you get to a point where maybe man can explain how it happened and the reasons are beyond our comprehension. So its knowing that science is valid and can apply up to a point and then knowing and accepting that there maybe other forces and realms that apply and that normal logic wont work then.

And why should we be submissive to something that doesn't exist? We are on the top of the Food Chain, Enjoy.

Thats the problem we are the ones who are destroying the whole thing. We cant be trusted and the nature of the beast causes us to spoil things. We are basically selfish and our sinful natures causes us to do things which will slowly destroy this world and the things in it. We are already destroying the food chain with over fishing and destroying the environment and ecosystems with pollution and in the name of progression. Crime is getting worse and our jails are filling to the brim. What we do as a nation and race affects the future and so far we have proved that we are incapable of running things. There are always wars and rumors of wars and we can never live in peace. There needs to be a great and just leader who demands respect and honor and is worthy of all leadership. We always corrupt things and blacken out the truth. Man has proven he cannot rule without corruption and greed and power seeking. Jesus is the way the truth and the life. He is often spoken about as the light of the world. He is the savior and the promised messiah who will come to save us.

No, by reasoning and logic, we are the masters of our own world.

No we have already proven we are incapable. Satan rules this world and mankind rejecting God only allows this to happen. Satan wants to be God and our sinful natures will cause us to follow Satan more than God. This is seen by corruption and destruction we already see in the world today. It wont be until Gods kingdom comes that we will know real peace.

Ummm no the truth is that we are sick and tired of Illogical and Irrational and Unintelligent people trying to do a disservice to Evolution and Science because they clearly feel threatened by Answers that aren't easy to understand.

See thats unfair. Yes there maybe people who carry on like that and go to the extreme. But that is not the majority and this can happen with al lwalks of life. I think there is an over reaction and almost despising of some religious people which is unjustified. I think there is also an element of persecution which the bible says would happen.

But people have a tendency to fall for illogical things like money scams and being duped by love. A lot of people are sensitive and trusting and can be fooled by things but not just religion. We are not robots and its a human trait. You could also say that some people are to robotic and are not trusting and wont take that risk in love or faith because they want to control everything to the point of being to rigid.

 

[createdtoworship]

The point is how does life start from nothing. Its like saying your garage produced a car from nothing and it drove itself down the road.


Thats the good thing about God He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. He doesn't start change the goal posts all the time.

Science will update itself when they will test new hypothesis to see if its valid. But just like religion the people behind it can sometimes use it wrongly to make assertions that are not true. Like with multi universes and all the other hypothesis out there at the moment to explain what they have found with quantum physics and the universe. Even though they are only hypothesis they have a few different ones and carry one like one of them is definitely true and its a matter of time before its proven. But they dont have any direct evidence it is. Still some talk like its fact. So they have come up with a few way out ideas and the choice is between one way out hypothesis or another one. So one of them is propose as being correct. What if none are where do they go then and how could they get things so wrong. Remember they are basing their hypothesis on calculated info for what they are finding so they are not just ideas that have come out of the blue.



But what they are basing it on isnt logical. Quantum physic goes into things that are not making sense. So maybe the answers are also not logical.

Quantum physics never stops not making sense. But why? How does this lack of sense make sense? Well, one explanation for this lack of sense within quantum physics, is that we as humans are simply incapable of understanding certain things - some things may be as incomprehensible to us as calculus to snails.
Philosophysics: Why Quantum Physics Doesn't Make Sense

But at the same time the quantum world is sort of an indirect evidence of God. Because it points to other dimensions at work that are beyond our understanding that is what people say God is as well. Even the bible says this and to me this is just confirming God and what the bible says through the science.

For example.
It is the believe that life and biology are central to reality and that life creates the universe, not the other way round.

Read more: Quantum physics proves that there IS an afterlife, claims scientist | Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

The bible says John 1:1​

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of first fruits of all he created.

So the bible is saying that life itself was created by the word of God and spoken into existence. So that is similar to what some scientists are saying about quantum physics in that our existences or consciousnesses has created the universe and not the universe creating us.


No that is what non believers will say by taking this to the extreme all the time. Religious people will use logic and common sense as much as anyone. Non religious people can abandon logic and common sense as much as anyone through love or many other beliefs and unreal ideas like aliens, ghosts and new age fads.

But its the point at which logic and science will get to and then what is beyond that thats important. Like with quantum physics we get to a point where the logic and normal physics dont add up or can be applied. Like with how the universe and life started you get to a point where maybe man can explain how it happened and the reasons are beyond our comprehension. So its knowing that science is valid and can apply up to a point and then knowing and accepting that there maybe other forces and realms that apply and that normal logic wont work then.


Thats the problem we are the ones who are destroying the whole thing. We cant be trusted and the nature of the beast causes us to spoil things. We are basically selfish and our sinful natures causes us to do things which will slowly destroy this world and the things in it. We are already destroying the food chain with over fishing and destroying the environment and ecosystems with pollution and in the name of progression. Crime is getting worse and our jails are filling to the brim. What we do as a nation and race affects the future and so far we have proved that we are incapable of running things. There are always wars and rumors of wars and we can never live in peace. There needs to be a great and just leader who demands respect and honor and is worthy of all leadership. We always corrupt things and blacken out the truth. Man has proven he cannot rule without corruption and greed and power seeking. Jesus is the way the truth and the life. He is often spoken about as the light of the world. He is the savior and the promised messiah who will come to save us.


No we have already proven we are incapable. Satan rules this world and mankind rejecting God only allows this to happen. Satan wants to be God and our sinful natures will cause us to follow Satan more than God. This is seen by corruption and destruction we already see in the world today. It wont be until Gods kingdom comes that we will know real peace.


See thats unfair. Yes there maybe people who carry on like that and go to the extreme. But that is not the majority and this can happen with al lwalks of life. I think there is an over reaction and almost despising of some religious people which is unjustified. I think there is also an element of persecution which the bible says would happen.

But people have a tendency to fall for illogical things like money scams and being duped by love. A lot of people are sensitive and trusting and can be fooled by things but not just religion. We are not robots and its a human trait. You could also say that some people are to robotic and are not trusting and wont take that risk in love or faith because they want to control everything to the point of being to rigid.

I appreciate your presence here on the forum, and just wanted to thank you for your efforts.

-grady

 

[PsychoSarah]

I appreciate your presence here on the forum, and just wanted to thank you for your efforts.

-grady

You read that whole text wall?

 

[stevevw]

You read that whole text wall?

It wasn't just me, I was responding to a post as well. You have to remember that the post start out smaller and then build up. So I like to go into a bit of detail and I cant help myself sometimes. Its better than some of the short dismissive replies that dont have any support. But anyway thanks Grady for the feedback.

 

[FredVB]

I have hardly come to this forum, and some others that are with a like issue, as I know it involves debating that God is there with those unbelievers coming here to argue that there is no evidence of God, and especially that God is Yahweh, with believers who are in these forums. I don't quite understand it. Why after all come to Christian forums, to argue this with believers, when nobody's mind is going to be changed? Why not communicate that somewhere else? Believers here might be led to argue with each of you who says there isn't such evidence with how there is evidence, but would those of you doing that listen and openly consider it, rather than just dismiss or deny all of it? The real answer I think to give to you that are involved in that is that you have yet to even ask God to make the presence of God known to you. If you won't have any faith to put in God who makes each and all of us, God won't have any relationship with you, and it will be a barrier to seeing any evidence of God. There is then only answers to be found in creatures or from what may be found from creation. Christ made the way for access, to know of God and more about God. But with not wanting anything of that, it seems there is fruitless pursuit coming to Christian forums to have discussion with questioning God.

 

[dad]

I have hardly come to this forum, and some others that are with a like issue, as I know it involves debating that God is there with those unbelievers coming here to argue that there is no evidence of God, and especially that God is Yahweh, with believers who are in these forums. I don't quite understand it. Why after all come to Christian forums, to argue this with believers, when nobody's mind is going to be changed? Why not communicate that somewhere else? Believers here might be led to argue with each of you who says there isn't such evidence with how there is evidence, but would those of you doing that listen and openly consider it, rather than just dismiss or deny all of it? The real answer I think to give to you that are involved in that is that you have yet to even ask God to make the presence of God known to you. If you won't have any faith to put in God who makes each and all of us, God won't have any relationship with you, and it will be a barrier to seeing any evidence of God. There is then only answers to be found in creatures or from what may be found from creation. Christ made the way for access, to know of God and more about God. But with not wanting anything of that, it seems there is fruitless pursuit coming to Christian forums to have discussion with questioning God.

I have communicated in several pagan forums. They generally make mention of the spiritual and God illegal in their forums, claiming it is not 'science' basically, at least in my experience. The soul winners for Satan have an easy time of it there, to appear to know what they are talking about since they 'have the floor'. Like a lion seeking whom it may devour, they tend to prey on the weak of faith.

On a Christian forum, they tend to be somewhat more in check, but relentlessly attempt to cast doubts on God and His word, and creation, and belittle believers as much as they can get away with, many of them. It is not so much about a seeking for truth, but a con game and deception and attempt to cause some weak ones to stumble. They seem to feel some inner unexplained inspiration and drive to sow division and doubt.

Maybe I am missing something? They sure offer pathetic resistance when it comes to actual discussion of evidences and the basis for claims from science regarding creation issues! Like a paper tiger. So...why else would they be here...?

 

[createdtoworship]

It wasn't just me, I was responding to a post as well. You have to remember that the post start out smaller and then build up. So I like to go into a bit of detail and I cant help myself sometimes. Its better than some of the short dismissive replies that dont have any support. But anyway thanks Grady for the feedback.

I personally liked your references to quantum mechanics.

Many do not believe quantum mechanics is accurate because it's confusing. However this is an argument from personal incredulity/or argument from ignorance. Just because it doesn't make sense doesn't mean it's not true.

I don't agree that our logos created the universe, however. I believe THE LOGOS created the universe, namely the preexistant Christ.

 

[createdtoworship]

I have communicated in several pagan forums. They generally make mention of the spiritual and God illegal in their forums, claiming it is not 'science' basically, at least in my experience. The soul winners for Satan have an easy time of it there, to appear to know what they are talking about since they 'have the floor'. Like a lion seeking whom it may devour, they tend to prey on the weak of faith.

On a Christian forum, they tend to be somewhat more in check, but relentlessly attempt to cast doubts on God and His word, and creation, and belittle believers as much as they can get away with, many of them. It is not so much about a seeking for truth, but a con game and deception and attempt to cause some weak ones to stumble. They seem to feel some inner unexplained inspiration and drive to sow division and doubt.

Maybe I am missing something? They sure offer pathetic resistance when it comes to actual discussion of evidences and the basis for claims from science regarding creation issues! Like a paper tiger. So...why else would they be here...?

 

[createdtoworship]

People can tell if you've read something or not.

Well I read quite a bit of it, not the whole paper as I doubt you did either. But I read maybe 50 words of the section that I was in (macroevolution). Which was sufficient to make a quote of less than 10 words, and have it in context.

 

[createdtoworship]

There are no real problems with life starting naturally on Earth, we have a good working hypothesis as to how it might have happened, but finding evidence to support the hypothesis is rather difficult, as you can imagine.

I believe all primordial soup theory is based on the miller urey experiment which I believe created some primitive amino acids. However there are many sources as to the fact that this experiment is overrated and by and large "old news"

here are some of the more obvious problems with the primordial soup theory and the miller urey experiment:

• law of mass action:in a watery environment a water molecule will break up a protein into amino acids, and will break up a DNA into respective nucleotides. not the other way around. So this law of mass action proves evolution cannot happen on a chemical level as evolutionary laws of abiogenesis and laws of primordial soup theories suggest.
• water is a solvent of course it breaks things down. Thats not the interesting part. lets start with endothermic reactions, do you know what they are?They are reactions that bond elements. Like when you drop a red die inwater, you don't expect to see a little drop still in the water, it bonds to it. nucleotides don't bond well other nucleotides to make DNA, but they do bond well with the toxic elements produced in the miller urey experiment. So no primordial soup will suffice because the nucleotides will bond to the toxins and be wiped out. They need an endothermic reaction which does not come cheaply, as it requires much needed energy (that would not be there in a primitive soup).
• not to mention the fact that proteins are made of 100% left handed amino acids. Miller Urey produced 50/50. So no proteins evolved in miller urey.
• nucleotides are made of 100% right handed nucleotides. Miller urey produced none, but if possible it would have produced 50/50. So another limitation of primitive soup theory.
• ammonia and methane: in 70's scientist realized: but ammonia would
  only last a few thousand years due to ultra violet radiation. And Methane would produce 10 meters of oil due to ultra violet radiation. so no methane, and no ammonia after a few thousand years. so there would be no necessary chemicals in early biospheres to evolve any life out of primitive soup without the chemicals necessary to reproduce miller urey. Other than this: miller urey no studies have been shown to produce abiogenesis or chemical evolution

chemical evolution, fails. Evolution as a concept fails as well.

 

[PsychoSarah]

It wasn't just me, I was responding to a post as well. You have to remember that the post start out smaller and then build up. So I like to go into a bit of detail and I cant help myself sometimes. Its better than some of the short dismissive replies that dont have any support. But anyway thanks Grady for the feedback.

You know that post was mostly you. You are the king of text walls

 

[szechuan]

I have hardly come to this forum, and some others that are with a like issue, as I know it involves debating that God is there with those unbelievers coming here to argue that there is no evidence of God, and especially that God is Yahweh, with believers who are in these forums. I don't quite understand it. Why after all come to Christian forums, to argue this with believers, when nobody's mind is going to be changed? Why not communicate that somewhere else? Believers here might be led to argue with each of you who says there isn't such evidence with how there is evidence, but would those of you doing that listen and openly consider it, rather than just dismiss or deny all of it? The real answer I think to give to you that are involved in that is that you have yet to even ask God to make the presence of God known to you. If you won't have any faith to put in God who makes each and all of us, God won't have any relationship with you, and it will be a barrier to seeing any evidence of God. There is then only answers to be found in creatures or from what may be found from creation. Christ made the way for access, to know of God and more about God. But with not wanting anything of that, it seems there is fruitless pursuit coming to Christian forums to have discussion with questioning God.

Why? Because Scientists and Rational people are tired if religious people Spreading Ignorance in schools and the world.

 

[szechuan]

I have communicated in several pagan forums. They generally make mention of the spiritual and God illegal in their forums, claiming it is not 'science' basically, at least in my experience. The soul winners for Satan have an easy time of it there, to appear to know what they are talking about since they 'have the floor'. Like a lion seeking whom it may devour, they tend to prey on the weak of faith.

Not all forums want to debate about Theology.
Not all pagan forums ban the talk of God either. It's funny how you demonize them for believing in a different religion, typical bigoted Christians.

On a Christian forum, they tend to be somewhat more in check, but relentlessly attempt to cast doubts on God and His word, and creation, and belittle believers as much as they can get away with, many of them. It is not so much about a seeking for truth, but a con game and deception and attempt to cause some weak ones to stumble. They seem to feel some inner unexplained inspiration and drive to sow division and doubt.

No, we're here because it's pure comedy gold.

Maybe I am missing something? They sure offer pathetic resistance when it comes to actual discussion of evidences and the basis for claims from science regarding creation issues! Like a paper tiger. So...why else would they be here...?

The fact that you can't see a Fallacy in creation ideology is amazing, let alone Intelligent Design.

The only people who are fools are the ones who believe the world are 6000 years old.

 

[Loudmouth]

like I said ...find ct scans of side facing ilia , or pictures of it. I did
btw. its not a lie. because that entails you proving myself to have willful intent to deceive. at worst I am missinformed not lying. so you again are wrong once more. thirdly yours is an appeal to authority as well. , and so thats three strikes. should I proceed to analyze you post?

You won't allow citation of peer reviewed scientific papers? Seriously?

 

[Loudmouth]

honestly I believe everything you just stated supports my view and not yours. However I assume you mean macroevolution to be not on the genus level, is that what you are stating. I only had time to look at berkleys site, but from the two quotes you submitted it definitely supports the fact that "level" in my definition refers to taxa. (but again I couldn't see all the berkley sites in my browser). I will look at the rest of your post later.

What you continually ignore is that the only thing that evolution has to produce is new species in order to produce the biodiversity we see today. Genera are human inventions and are not real objective things. Humans decide which species belong to which genera, and they don't use objective criteria. We could just as easily put humans and all other apes in a single genus as we could all in different genera. There is nothing stopping us from putting humans and chimps in the same genus.

"The term macroevolution was introduced by Iurii Filipchenko, a Russian geneticist and developmental biologist and mentor of Theodosius Dobzhansky. Filipchenko distinguished between Mendelian inheritance within species and non-Mendelian, cytoplasmic inheritance responsible for the formation of taxa above the species level."

A new species would be above the species level. The species level is within the same population. Above the species level is divergence of two populations.