Why don't protestants bless Mary?

[Meowzltov]

There is overwhelming evidence that the flood if Noah never happened. If the Pope said it was a myth, would you believe it?

I don't need the Pope to tell me it is a legend. Scientific evidence tells me a worldwide flood never happened, that the story is based upon a local flood. History became legend, legend became myth. In the end, it's about what eternal truth can be learned from the story -- WHY is it in the Bible?? Obviously there is a message(s) in the story God wants us to learn, so don't get lost in the details.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

I don't need the Pope to tell me it is a legend. Scientific evidence tells me a worldwide flood never happened, that the story is based upon a local flood. History became legend, legend became myth. In the end, it's about what eternal truth can be learned from the story -- WHY is it in the Bible?? Obviously there is a message(s) in the story God wants us to learn, so don't get lost in the details.

So how much of the bible do you actually believe to have litterally happened? Is this just your view or would you say this is the position of most Roman Catholics?

 

[Meowzltov]

I am concerned with the absolutely blind faith you have, not with Jesus and the scriptures, but with the men who lead the Roman Catholic Church. Honestly, at what point would you say that the bible is right and the church is wrong? Did you know that secular archeology found absolutely no evidence of the Exodus or King David. If the Pope agreed with secular archeology on these issues, would you follow him? What if the ascension of Enoch and Elijah is a "myth"? What if the extra-biblical sources that the Roman Catholic Church follows are a "myth" as well?

Actually everything in that post is stuff I believed YEARS before I became Catholic. It was espoused by CS Lewis (who was not Catholic) as well as by JRR Tolkien (who was). Those two authors were who I read all through junior high and high school, and who formed my adult thinking, as well as, eventually, my Christian orthodoxy.

The first time I read Tolkien's "On Fairy Stories" quite frankly I didn't understand it, largely due to the immaturity of my brain and the fact that I had been raised in a home with literalist parents. But I didn't give up trying. How can you reject what you don't understand? I knew I had to at least "get what he was saying" before I dumped it. When it finally got through to me, it was a watershed.

You can read Tolkien's "On Fairy Stories" here for free:
http://www.rivendellcommunity.org/Formation/Tolkien_On_Fairy_Stories.pdf

 

[Meowzltov]

Honestly, at what point would you say that the bible is right and the church is wrong?

The Church can never contradict the Bible. The Bible is considered dogma and may never be challenged. Our understanding of scripture may grow with increased knowledge and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Meowzltov]

Did you know that secular archeology found absolutely no evidence of the Exodus or King David. If the Pope agreed with secular archeology on these issues, would you follow him? What if the ascension of Enoch and Elijah is a "myth"?

Nor is there any evidence against the Exodus or King David. Or the assumption of Enoch and Elijah.
I tend to assume those things are historical. However, the POINT is to learn the truths from them that God wants us to learn. Therefore if they turn out to be only legend, I am still doing the right thing.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

The Church can never contradict the Bible. The Bible is considered dogma and may never be challenged. Our understanding of scripture may grow with increased knowledge and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Except the whole "priest/father" thing. As long as the church can somehow justify it then it is ok.

 

[Meowzltov]

So how much of the bible do you actually believe to have litterally happened? Is this just your view or would you say this is the position of most Roman Catholics?

In my humble, non-scholarly opinion, from Abraham onward you basically have history. Some books are obviously poetry and books of wisdom such as psalms and proverbs. Some of what Jesus said were parables and not historical. The books of the prophets are not to be read literally, i.e. thebeast with horns coming out of the sea is actually a symbol.

 

[Meowzltov]

Except the whole "priest/father" thing. As long as the church can somehow justify it then it is ok.

There is NO PROBLEM with Scripture except what is in the literalist's imagination. The verse in the Bible obviously does NOT mean to not call your earthly father "father." So the verse is FIGURATIVE. It means not to put anyone in God's place, that devotion to God is unique in its closeness.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

It means not to put anyone in God's place, that devotion to God is unique in its closeness.

"All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that he is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope."(Source: Robert Bellarmine, On the Authority of Councils, Volume 2: 266.)

"The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but he is Jesus Christ, Himself, hidden under the veil of flesh." (Source: Catholic National (July, 1895))

"...the Pope is as it were God on earth, sole sovereign of the faithful of Christ, chief of kings, having plenitude of power." (Source: Lucius Ferraris, in "Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica", Volume V, article on "Papa, Article II", titled "Concerning the extent of Papal dignity, authority, or dominion and infallibility", #1, 5, 13-15, 18, published in Petit Montrouge (Paris) by J. P. Migne, 1858 edition.)

"We confess that the Pope has power of changing Scripture and of adding to it, and taking from it according to his will." (Source: Roman Catholic Confessions for Protestants Oath, Article XI, (Confessio Romano- Catholica in Hungaria Evangelicis publice praescripta te proposita, editi a Streitwolf), as recorded in Congressional Record of the U.S.A., House Bill 1523, Contested election case of Eugene C. Bonniwell, against Thos. S. Butler, Feb. 15, 1913.)

Note that these quotes are coming from catholic sources. However, even if you did agree that these quotes are true, catholics will not denounce them. The Roman Catholic Church requires yourself and it's followers to have absolute obedience to the pope and the Roman Catholic Church at all costs. I think you would probably agree with St. Catherine of Siena when she said:

"Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope. I know very well that many defend themselves by boasting: 'They are so corrupt, and work all manner of evil!' But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him." (Source: St. Catherine of Siena, SCS, p. 201-202, p. 222, quoted in Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 5: “The Book of Obedience”, Chapter 1: “There is No Salvation Without Personal Submission to the Pope”)

 

[Grafted In]

The verse itself is a record of Christ returning to the world at that time. The fact that he is in the air, which is part of this world, shows that he is here.

Yes 1830 years is a long time. You would think that in allll those long years, that if Christians believed in the rapture, that SOME besides Darby would have written about it. But no. Very telling.

2 Tim. 2?

 

[justcoolforyou]

They had her? In what way? Do you see any mention of her in any of the epistles? Did she even write any of them? Did she go on any missions like the Apostles did and found churches in other countries? Did Mary ever get imprisoned or killed like the majority of the rest of them did?

No but she did run with child out her country, a country that was hers as queen mother and Jesus true king...she lived with John and both founded churches. The luke wrote parts of his gospel from things she allowwd through the spirit to revealed to him. For the gospel. Just as Peter was the auther of Marks gospel jet mark wrote it...

 

[Grafted In]

The CC and the Pope do not say that Genesis 1 is wrong. A Myth is not a lie, it is a teaching story. Similarly, the fact that there was never a historical Good Samaritan doesn't make the parable "wrong" or a "lie." A parable is not supposed to be a true story. It is read for the message of truth it is teaching. The same with Genesis 1. God creates and it is good.

How do we get from a "myth" to Genesis 5?

 

[Grafted In]

Is that how you think evolution works? That an ape mom gives birth to a human baby? *bops jason on the head* LOL

The parents of the first humans were also hominids, but they did not have complete moral sentience.

Open Heart, you should be more careful. You just showed me your hand.

 

[supersoldier71]

The RCC has failed to understand a few key points that are central to the message and content of the Bible; the first is that God created everything as He said He did. How do we know this? Because Jesus, who as God, was present for the event and promoted the Genesis account as fact. Second, the entire Bible is about God, His person and His character, and how they manifest in the three persons of the Trinity. God spends a lot of ink proclaiming His jealousy, His anger towards creatures who do not recognize and appreciate Him, and ultimately, His plan to correct it all. All of these things could be myths.

But....if we believe that Christ died for His people. But...He arose on the third day by His own power, the Firstborn from the grave. And...He now lives forever at the right hand of the Father. If we believe these things: every part of every Scripture hangs on every other part of the testimony being the absolute truth, otherwise, we believe in some seriously crazy stuff.

So really, what do you believe about the Christ?

 

[Meowzltov]

"The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but he is Jesus Christ, Himself, hidden under the veil of flesh." (Source: Catholic National (July, 1895))

I"m getting sick of answering the same stuff over and over again. You guys keep going to the same anti-catholic sites and parroting whatever you find there without checking it first. I'll let this one be the example for your whole list, because it's after midnight and I'm not going to spend another half hour on a post repeating myself again.

In this particular case,
I. No copy of a Catholic National dated July, 1895 can be found containing this quote.

II. Frs. Leslie Rumble and Charles M. Carty already answered this question in volume 2 of their Radio Replies (transcripts of their 1930's radio program):

2-310. Pope Pius X made the blasphemous claim that he was "Jesus Christ hidden under the veil of the flesh. Does the Pope speak? It is Jesus Christ who speaks."

REPLY: A Protestant paper, the "Church Review," in England, October 3, 1895, charges Cardinal Sarto, Archbishop of Venice, with having uttered those words at Venice. Cardinal Sarto was elected Pope in 1903. But as soon as the charge was made in 1895 that Cardinal Sarto had said those words, inquiries were sent from England to Venice, and Cardinal Sarto produced the manuscript of his discourse. And this is what he actually did say:"The Pope REPRESENTS Jesus Christ Himself, and therefore is a loving father. The life of the Pope is a holocaust of love for the human family. His word is love; love, his weapon; love, the answer he gives to all who hate him; love, his flag, that is, the Cross, which signed the greatest triumph on Earth and in Heaven."​

 

[Meowzltov]

2 Tim. 2?

which verse?

 

[Meowzltov]

How do we get from a "myth" to Genesis 5?

It's a slow blend, Going from deep myth to a myth legend combo, to legend, to a legend history combo, to history. You take something like Noah's flood and its a combination of myth, legend, and history.

 

[Meowzltov]

Open Heart, you should be more careful. You just showed me your hand.

I'm not playing a game with you. I'm not trying to "win" anything. I'm only interested in having an open conversation about the truth.

 

[Thursday]

Wow! Great quotes. You really did some fantastic research.

Google is my homeboy.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

I know this is off topic but in an effort to promote a positive environment I would like to take a 5 minute pause to reflect on this video.

[video=youtube]

[/video]