Why don't protestants bless Mary?

[Meowzltov]

So is the creation of Adam and Eve also a "myth"? Because if what the Pope says is true, they came from apes and not from the earth.

It's what all the evidence in the earth says; the Pope merely acknowledges it.

All life came from the dust of the earth, including apes, and thus man, and the earth itelf came from the dust of stars, which themselves came from the Big Bang when God began his work of creation.

 

[Thursday]

Sola scriptura is not the point! Where is the source that supports the belief that Mary ascended into heaven rather dying a normal human death?

The successors of the apostles told us what happened.

Why don't you believe them?

 

[Meowzltov]

Now, let's be candid, O.H.

Do you really, really think that saying that the RCC hasn't changed "the resurrection, or that Christ died for our sins" proves that the church has never changed its doctrines?? Really? No mention of Limbo, Papal Infallibility, or something that's at least a wee bit more to the point?

Limbo was never a dogma, but was an example of non-infallible doctrine. Papal infallibility has been an unfolding understanding. It has become dogma where it was not before, but it has not conflicted with any prior dogma.

 

[Meowzltov]

And about the other two quotes? Because those popes are not claiming to be "the prime minister" of God. THEY ARE FLAT OUT SAYING THEY ARE GOD! GOD AND THE POPE ARE THE SAME AND THE POPE IS JESUS CHRIST IN A VAIL OF FLESH!

Please read the separate posts I put up for each of the three quotes.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

The successors of the apostles told us what happened.

Why don't you believe them?

Can you provide a reference that shows this to be true?

 

[Meowzltov]

=

 

[Thursday]

Can you provide a reference that shows this to be true?

If therefore it might come to pass by the power of your grace, it has appeared right to us your servants that, as you, having overcome death, do reign in glory, so you should raise up the body of your Mother and take her with you, rejoicing, into heaven. Then said the Savior [Jesus]: "Be it done according to your will" (The Passing of the Virgin 16:2-17 [A.D. 300]).

Timothy of Jerusalem

Therefore the Virgin is immortal to this day, seeing that he who had dwelt in her transported her to the regions of her assumption (Homily on Simeon and Anna [A.D. 400]).

John the Theologian

The Lord said to his Mother, "Let your heart rejoice and be glad. For every favor and every gift has been given to you from my Father in heaven and from me and from the Holy Spirit. Every soul that calls upon your name shall not be ashamed, but shall find mercy and comfort and support and confidence, both in the world that now is and in that which is to come, in the presence of my Father in the heavens". . . And from that time forth all knew that the spotless and precious body had been transferred to paradise (The Dormition of Mary [A.D. 400]).

Gregory of Tours

[T]he Apostles took up her body on a bier and placed it in a tomb; and they guarded it, expecting the Lord to come. And behold, again the Lord stood by them; and the holy body having been received, He commanded that it be taken in a cloud into paradise: where now, rejoined to the soul, [Mary] rejoices with the Lord's chosen ones. . . (Eight Books of Miracles 1:4 [A.D. 575]).

 

[Meowzltov]

Sola scriptura is not the point! Where is the source that supports the belief that Mary ascended into heaven rather dying a normal human death?
The problem is not that protestants rely to heavily on the bible, it is that it seems like the Roman Catholic Church consistently makes an effort to defy it! Just like liberal democrats want to rip apart the constitution because it is inconvenient (like gun rights) so too does the Roman Catholic Church seem to view the bible as an obstacle that gets in the way of their own personal agenda. I cannot help but believe that the RCC just makes doctrine up for one reason or another in spite of scripture only to turn around and make elaborate adhoc explanations to rationalize the contraditions.

Of course the issue is Sola Scriptura. Your ONLY argument against it is that the dogma is not in the Bible. There is no verse in the Bible that records Mary's death, and there are other examples in Scripture of those who did not die, such as Enoch and Elijah. The dogma has been passed down as tradition for 2000 years. It has been recorded even in the artwork of the Early Christian Church mosaics. Mary's tomb is empty. So it didn't just come out of nowhere.

 

[Meowzltov]

If therefore it might come to pass by the power of your grace, it has appeared right to us your servants that, as you, having overcome death, do reign in glory, so you should raise up the body of your Mother and take her with you, rejoicing, into heaven. Then said the Savior [Jesus]: "Be it done according to your will" (The Passing of the Virgin 16:2-17 [A.D. 300]).

Timothy of Jerusalem

Therefore the Virgin is immortal to this day, seeing that he who had dwelt in her transported her to the regions of her assumption (Homily on Simeon and Anna [A.D. 400]).

John the Theologian

The Lord said to his Mother, "Let your heart rejoice and be glad. For every favor and every gift has been given to you from my Father in heaven and from me and from the Holy Spirit. Every soul that calls upon your name shall not be ashamed, but shall find mercy and comfort and support and confidence, both in the world that now is and in that which is to come, in the presence of my Father in the heavens". . . And from that time forth all knew that the spotless and precious body had been transferred to paradise (The Dormition of Mary [A.D. 400]).Wow! Fabulous quotes. You really did some great research.

Gregory of Tours

[T]he Apostles took up her body on a bier and placed it in a tomb; and they guarded it, expecting the Lord to come. And behold, again the Lord stood by them; and the holy body having been received, He commanded that it be taken in a cloud into paradise: where now, rejoined to the soul, [Mary] rejoices with the Lord's chosen ones. . . (Eight Books of Miracles 1:4 [A.D. 575]).

Wow! Great quotes. You really did some fantastic research.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

My points stand.

Here is a link to the entire information:

http://biblelight.net/Barclay.html

 

[Albion]

Limbo was never a dogma, but was an example of non-infallible doctrine. Papal infallibility has been an unfolding understanding. It has become dogma where it was not before, but it has not conflicted with any prior dogma.

I know the answers, but obviously it's matters like these that people have in mind when it's said that the church has changed doctrines, even though it denies doing so.

It's not because someone wonders if the church has ever changed from believing in the Resurrection to not believing in the Resurrection or vice-versa.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

It's what all the evidence in the earth says; the Pope merely acknowledges it.

All life came from the dust of the earth, including apes, and thus man, and the earth itelf came from the dust of stars, which themselves came from the Big Bang when God began his work of creation.

And the story about the fall of man where Satan took the form of a serpent? Is that a myth too?

 

[Grafted In]

All life came from the dust of the earth, including apes, and thus man, and the earth itelf came from the dust of stars, which themselves came from the Big Bang when God began his work of creation.

Are you sure about that?

 

[supersoldier71]

And the story about the fall of man where Satan took the form of a serpent? Is that a myth too?

Nope, 'cause then Mary in the protoevangelium is a myth, and thus, so is God's plan for redeeming His people.

See, this is why we take this literalism stuff so seriously. All 66 books are about the person, character and actions of God: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Holy, holy, holy, and the only person capable of interceding with us to the Father (because He was fully man), AND with acting as the messenger of the Father to man (because He is fully God), was Jesus. No one else, including the Holy Spirit (God) or the Father (God) could fulfill those roles.

And saying that I need someone else--anyone else--alive or dead, to enter into the presence of Jesus is a lie. Not just a lie, it's a lie perpetrated by the enemy to deceive and lead people to hell.

Jesus Christ died for ME, personally. My sins, my rebellion, my impurity, my failings are what killed my Lord. But by His own power He rose on the third day, the tomb is empty, and He reigns at the right hand of the Father. JESUS CHRIST. And right now, if they could, Peter, Paul, Mary and every saint throughout history would proclaim the exact same thing.

But they are in the presence of the Lord right now and are NOT worried about anything we've got going on.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Nope, 'cause then Mary in the protoevangelium is a myth, and thus, so is God's plan for redeeming His people.

See, this is why we take this literalism stuff so seriously. All 66 books are about the person, character and actions of God: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Holy, holy, holy, and the only person capable of interceding with us to the Father (because He was fully man), AND with acting as the messenger of the Father to man (because He is fully God), was Jesus. No one else, including the Holy Spirit (God) or the Father (God) could fulfill those roles.

And saying that I need someone else--anyone else--alive or dead, to enter into the presence of Jesus is a lie. Not just a lie, it's a lie perpetrated by the enemy to deceive and lead people to hell.

Jesus Christ died for ME, personally. My sins, my rebellion, my impurity, my failings are what killed my Lord. But by His own power He rose on the third day, the tomb is empty, and He reigns at the right hand of the Father. JESUS CHRIST. And right now, if they could, Peter, Paul, Mary and every saint throughout history would proclaim the exact same thing.

But they are in the presence of the Lord right now and are NOT worried about anything we've got going on.

Amen to that brother and I agree with everything. The point that I was trying to explain to Open Heart and other Catholics is simply this. If anyone agrees with the Pope and his belief that Genesis 1 did not really happen, you have to believe the fall of man never really happened as well. Thus, the entire foundation of Christianity is now up for question. You see, no Genesis 1 means no Adam and Eve which means no serpent which means no fall which means everything, including the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross was for absolutely no reason.

 

[supersoldier71]

Amen to that brother and I agree with everything. The point that I was trying to explain to Open Heart and other Catholics is simply this. If anyone agrees with the Pope and his belief that Genesis 1 did not really happen, you have to believe the fall of man never really happened as well. Thus, the entire foundation of Christianity is now up for question. You see, no Genesis 1 means no Adam and Eve which means no serpent which means no fall which means everything, including the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross was for absolutely no reason.

I was seconding your motion :-D Not that it needs my sometimes-feeble arguments.

We are in accord.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

I wonder if Open Heart still agrees with the Pope now?

 

[Albion]

The point that I was trying to explain to Open Heart and other Catholics is simply this. If anyone agrees with the Pope and his belief that Genesis 1 did not really happen, you have to believe the fall of man never really happened as well.

Well, Catholics don't believe either of those (Genesis didn't happen and there was no fall of Man), so it's time to drop this line of attack.

 

[Meowzltov]

Here is a link to the entire information:

http://biblelight.net/Barclay.html

Did you understand anything at all about what I said in my second point?

 

[supersoldier71]

I wonder if Open Heart still agrees with the Pope now?

Which really is the point of this discussion: believe in Jesus and you cannot be wrong. Believe in anything else, and sooner or later, they will disappoint. On this side of eternity anyway.

I pray that the Holy Spirit will move them away from falsehood and into the truth and security that come from knowing that Jesus Christ of Nazareth (fully God and fully man) is the Way, the Truth and the Life, and He needs no help from anyone to be these things. I pray that they come to know and love the beauty and incredible miracle that is ours because the temple veil was torn in two, and we can now bring our supplications not to an "angel" or "saint" or whomever; because the Father commanded it, and Jesus was faithful unto DEATH upon the cross for MY horrible wretched sin...because of Jesus' faithfulness, His courage, and His place as God the Son, we may enter the throne room of the Most High God and praise Him, and worship Him and bring our requests to God Almighty.

Man!!! Doesn't that just make you wanna stomp and shout????