Why don't protestants bless Mary?

[Meowzltov]

YES!!!Mary was a blessed woman.
47And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. 48"For He has had regard for the humble state of His bondslave; For behold, from this time on all generations will count me blessed. 49"For the Mighty One has done great things for me; And holy is His name.… Luke

It's sooooooooooo good to see a Protestant appreciate Christ's mother.

 

[Fireinfolding]

I dont believe protestants go into convulsions when quoting a scripture that speaks of her or what was said to her or what she has said (as is recorded in scripture). Most protestants have no problem with Mary or the scripture but typically the steriods folks have put her on.

Thats not Mary's fault, thats typical sinful men who will start that even with holy men, like how the pagans started immediately putting apostles in certain places, calling them Jupiter and Mercurius like they did Barnabas and Paul. Just taking men like themselves and being drawn to do sacrifice unto them. Paul and Barnabas could protest (in person) which they did to their vanities, Mary isnt here. There was another pagan goddess called the queen of heaven, and calling her that (even as pagans began to call Barnabas and Paul Jupiter and Mercurius in their ignorance happens today as well.

 

[Aldebaran]

Indeed, as are all believers. BUT IN ADDITION TO THIS, Mary is blessed by all generations because of her YES to God -- it puts her on a plane above all other Christians.

Um, other Christians in subsequent generations have said YES to God.
It seems that you are elevating Mary above all other Christians throughout history based on your own opinion of her and not what God's word says about her.

 

[Fireinfolding]

What Mary said (about being called blessed from henceforth) was also met with what Jesus said when that started up by a woman blessing her paps and and womb and elevating Mary above Jesus Christ. So even though Mary said this (though blessed even among women like Jael) Jesus was present and corrected the focus this woman was putting on Marys body parts.

His word trumps hers I would think, even Mary did say whatever HE tells you do it.

Elizabeth calls her blessed, there is nothing wrong with being blessed, its good to be blessed, I call folks blessed

 

[Meowzltov]

I dont believe protestants go into convulsions when quoting a scripture that speaks of her or what was said to her or what she has said (as is recorded in scripture). Most protestants have no problem with Mary or the scripture but typically the steriods folks have put her on.

Thats not Mary's fault, thats typical sinful men who will start that even with holy men, like how the pagans started immediately putting apostles in certain places, calling them Jupiter and Mercurius like they did Barnabas and Paul. Just taking men like themselves and being drawn to do sacrifice unto them. Paul and Barnabas could protest (in person) which they did to their vanities, Mary isnt here. There was another pagan goddess called the queen of heaven, and calling her that (even as pagans began to call Barnabas and Paul Jupiter and Mercurius in their ignorance happens today as well.

cite

 

[Fireinfolding]

cite

Whats a cite?

 

[Meowzltov]

Um, other Christians in subsequent generations have said YES to God.
.

Not in such a way so pivotal as to bring he who is salvation into the world. Nothing, NOTHING compares to that.

 

[Meowzltov]

Whats a cite?

I'm asking to cite reliable sources that folks were deliberately trying to emulate a pagan Goddess when they called Mary "Queen of Heaven," and that Paul and Barnabas were called Jupiter and Mercurius.

 

[Fireinfolding]

I'm asking to cite reliable sources that folks were deliberately trying to emulate a pagan Goddess when they called Mary "Queen of Heaven," and that Paul and Barnabas were called Jupiter and Mercurius.

Where did I say they did it in anything more then their ignorance in doing someone sacrifice?

Here is Paul and Barnabas

 

[Meowzltov]

Where did I say they did it in anything more then their ignorance in doing someone sacrifice?

Thanks for the Paul and Barnabas citations!

If they are doing it "in ignorance," it means the connection is coincidental, and not something to be concerned about.

It's DIFFERENT with Paul and Barnabas -- the pagans KNEW they were calling them deities.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Thanks for the Paul and Barnabas citations!

If they are doing it "in ignorance," it means the connection is coincidental, and not something to be concerned about.

God would know if it were in ignorance, whereas Paul also speaks of a time when God winked at things that ought not be done that were done in ignorance, which they were to repent from.

I on the otherhand said nothing about it being diliberate in my post that was your words in respects to both situations, and I have no idea if its done with a person knowing full well about it and choosing what goes out of ones own mouth over the LORDS, that too can be shown in Jeremiah, as it seems they had "oral" tradition too, and chose what went out of "their own mouth" then Gods prophets (by who he spake) even back then.

As far as being concerned about ignorance Paul actually was, for example concerning the Godhead and their idolatries, as we know that in Jesus Christ was the fulness of the Godhead bodily (Col 2:9) and Paul continued to say, that we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. (Acts 17:29) as people often do.

And Paul adds that God winked at this particular ignorance (Acts 17:30, which is sin in ignorance in Lev 4:2 & 4:27) but was commanding all men to repent from the idolatry they were given to (as he saw as shown in Acts 17:16), as the same is shown in Duet 29:17, and adressed in Acts 17:30, as they were informed to repent of the same in Acts 17:30, as its expounded upon on in 1 Cr 10:7 which is spoken of here in Exodus 32:6-8, thus corrupting themselves in the making of the same. Which is also testified of in accord with that corruption here in Duet 4:16 of which things they did not repent of as shown in Rev 19:20

 

[Bryan G]

Does the smoke continue forever and ever?

Unfortunately for your "theory" the fire of their torment doesn't cease, because those who are tormented do not cease to exist, as it clearly says, they have no rest day or night.

He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night,


Their torment produces the smoke, which is why it clearly says the smoke OF THEIR TORMENT ascends forever and ever, as they have NO REST DAY OR NIGHT.

The reason they have no rest day or night, is from being tormented.

The smoke never stops because the fire never stops as the torment never stops... which is why the have no rest DAY OR NIGHT.


41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Matthew 25:41,46


JLB

You really want to argue this fact, so you seem to feel strong about it, do you really want people to suffer for eternity? Or are you really interested in what God's word says?
I decided to look up the original text, to see if there is really is an eternal suffering and found something that really explains it by going back to the original Greek text:

Most Christians would be astonished and perplexed to find out that the Bible NEVER ONCE talks about "eternal" life, or ANYTHING happening "forever" or "forever and ever." In fact, the words eternal, everlasting, and forever NEVER appear in the New Testament. They are mistranslations of the Greek word "eon."

"Well, then the word "eon" must mean eternal, everlasting and forever," you say. No it doesn't. Because eternity does not have an end. An eon DOES have an end. The word "eon" pertains to a specific period of time, with both a beginning and an end.

The Bible makes this very clear because it speaks of a "present" eon, a "coming" eon, and a "conclusion" of the eons. Obviously "eternity" as we understand it, has NO "conclusion."

Now, before anyone gets too upset, there IS information in the Bible that speaks of what we understand as "eternal" life, but that word is not used. What the Bible says is that those living at the end of the eons will never die, because death will be abolished. ("The last enemy that will be abolished is -- death!" See 1 Cor 15:22-28.)

But it's extremely important to know why the Bible DOESN'T use the word eternity and instead uses the word eon, meaning a specific period of time.

The process of God revealing Himself (His character) to His creatures IS the PURPOSE of the eons (see Eph 1:11 in the original Greek). If infinity were needed for God to make Himself known, then we would never obtain such knowledge. God never speaks to us in terms of infinity, for we cannot understand it. He has provided a DEFINITE period of time for His self-revelation, called --- the eonian times.

The mistranslation of the word "eon" as everlasting, eternal, forever, and even "world", in the King James Version and nearly ALL translations of the Bible, leads to confusion and even sometimes to false doctrine. Some of the Bible translations have corrected some of the confusion by correctly translating the word "eon" as "age" which is much more accurate. But they don't do it in every instance.

The following information shows the many different ways the word "eon" is translated, as well as allowing the Bible to interpret its own words. The Bible reveals that the word "eon" clearly means a period of time, because the eons have a "conclusion!" Eternity has NO conclusion! So the word "Eon" CANNOT mean eternity!

EONIAN, aionion
Variously translated: Aeonian, age-abiding, long ages, of the ages, past ages, periods of past ages, remote-age times, commencement, eternal, eternally, eternity, everlasting,

NOTE: The Concordant Version is a literal, direct, word-for-word translation from the Greek to English.

Mt. 18: 8 eonion fire = everlasting fire
19:16 eonion fire = eternal life
:29 eonian life = everlasting life
25:46 eonian chastening = everlasting punishment
:46 eonion life = life eternal

Mk. 3:29 eonian sin = eternal damnation
Lu. 18:18 eonian life = eternal life
:30 eonian life = life everlasting

Jn. 4:36 eonion life = life eternal
5:24 eonion life = everlasting life
:39 eonion life = eternal life
6:27 eonion life = everlasting life

Ro. 16:25 in times eonian = since the world began
:26 eonian God = everlasting God

2Th. 1: 9 eonian extermination = everlasting destruction

2Ti 1: 9 before eonian times = before the world began

Hb. 5: 9 eonian salvation = eternal salvation
6: 2 eonian judgment = eternal judgment

9:12 eonian redemption = eternal redemption

Rv. 14: 6 eonian evangel = everlasting gospel

Even without going back to the original text, there is still this.

Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. If each is punished according to their deeds, how can all suffer for eternity?

Jude 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. Are Sodom and Gomorrah still burning today? No, they were consumed, fire burns things up, then they're gone.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. How can you spend eternity in fire, if you PERISH?

More:
John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Eternal life, or death.... Nothing else, no eternal suffering.

Matthew 10:28 "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. When you destroy something, it's gone.

Luke 3:17 "His winnowing fork is in His hand to thoroughly clear His threshing floor, and to gather the wheat into His barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." "Burn up", this is the example of the second coming of Jesus, the wheat are his people, the chaff are not, the chaff will BURN UP.

Revelation 21:8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." "DEATH", I don't think that needs explanation.

I'm not sure if you will read what I post, or consider it, but there is no way anyone deserves to be punished forever, God is a loving and just God.

 

[Fireinfolding]

The lake of fire is called the second of death, being the second of the place of deaths mentioned

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Since Death and hell/hades give up the already dead in them, we have dead folks already in death getting delivered up out of that but also whoever is not found being cast into the lake of fire.

Shows the beast and the false prophet are there and shall be tormented day and night for ever.

This is a tad off topic and someone will get mad, but diverting it back some, maybe if they say a hail Mary something magical could happen here

 

[Bryan G]

I've been somewhat off topic, but there is a relation here. There are only 3 people in the Bible that went to heaven directly, then there are those whose Graves opened when Jesus died on the cross. Other than that, the rest are explained in the Bible as "asleep", this includes Mary. I've proven this with numerous Bible verses. This directly on topic with using Mary as someone to talk to. Calling her blessed is not the same as trying to say to her blessed art though among women.
Then, once death was discussed, the topic of eternal suffering came up, and what death is, that is how I brought up the issue of eternal suffering, and showed several verses, including original Greek, that show, there is an end to the suffering.

The Bible says I/we can judge what sin is, and I/we can judge if someone is sinning, but I/we can not judge someones salvation, that is for God. But with all my heart, I believe Mary will be among the ones who will meet up with Jesus when he returns.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Nice posting with you Bryan , I need a Mary break (which is typical for me) so I will unsubscribe, catch you later, God bless

 

[JLB777]

You really want to argue this fact

No, as there is no arguing.

I stated the plain truth. If you want to argue against what the scriptures say, then that's your prerogative.

I decided to look up the original text, to see if there is really is an eternal suffering and found something that really explains it by going back to the original Greek text:

If you can't understand the plain truth in English, why would you bother with a language you don't speak or understand?


9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Revelation 14:9-11


He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.


How long does this torment last, for those who take the mark of the beast, based on what you read in these verses's of scripture.



JLB

 

[Aldebaran]

Not in such a way so pivotal as to bring he who is salvation into the world. Nothing, NOTHING compares to that.

Maybe not. But by praying to her, you're elevating her beyond being a mortal human. Doing so is idolizing her. We are not to be doing that.
I might also point out that Mary didn't even do anything to become pregnant. That was the work of the Lord Himself. Now, other people in scripture have done things that we could elevate them onto a pedestal for. Moses leading the Israelites to freedom, and parting the Red Sea. He went through quite a bit from the beginning of his life to the end. We could say that Moses is to be prayed to since he did so much. Or how about David--the apple of God's eye? Wouldn't David be someone you'd want to pray to because of that description?

 

[patricius79]

Maybe not. But by praying to her, you're elevating her beyond being a mortal human. Doing so is idolizing her. We are not to be doing that.
I might also point out that Mary didn't even do anything to become pregnant. That was the work of the Lord Himself. Now, other people in scripture have done things that we could elevate them onto a pedestal for. Moses leading the Israelites to freedom, and parting the Red Sea. He went through quite a bit from the beginning of his life to the end. We could say that Moses is to be prayed to since he did so much. Or how about David--the apple of God's eye? Wouldn't David be someone you'd want to pray to because of that description?

It's interesting that Jesus talked to Moses while he was praying at the Transfiguration.

But Scripture says that Mary conceived Christ, who is fully human and fully God.

There is nothing that can compare to that.

 

[Aldebaran]

It's interesting that Jesus talked to Moses while he was praying at the Transfiguration.

But Scripture says that Mary conceived Christ, who is fully human and fully God.

There is nothing that can compare to that.

Not in your opinion. But even if it were everyone's opinion, it doesn't mean we're to put her on a pedestal and idolize her. We can all have our feelings about someone or something, but we need to keep them in their right place.

 

[patricius79]

Not in your opinion. But even if it were everyone's opinion, it doesn't mean we're to put her on a pedestal and idolize her. We can all have our feelings about someone or something, but we need to keep them in their right place.

It is not idolatry to see the Mother of God as the highest of all creatures, and far holier than all the rest of creation.