Why don't people get it?

[Adventist Dissident]

What sin did I commit before I left my mother's womb to be deserving of the Adamic Curse?

None. you were born with bad code. It not your fault, but you do have to deal with it. That is why Christ came to give you a choice. you did not have one before he came. You did deserve death because you were born, you die because it is the consequence of Adam's corruption of the human code or nature.

Romans 8:20-22 NLT - "Against its will, all creation was subjected to God's curse. But with eager hope, the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God's children in glorious freedom from death and decay. For we know that all creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time."

Has anyone studied the Curse of the Lord? It's pretty important as it lies at the "heart" of our Gospel.

 

[bling]

He has a choice not to accept going to the banquet.

The issue in the parable is not salvation of the older son (representing the Pharisees).
The issue is his (Pharisees's) objection to the prodigal (Gentile) son's receiving the same inheritance.

And where the parable makes an end to teaching, I make an end to learning.

The younger prodigal son already got his inheritance which was half what the oldest son will get and he already spent it all. The oldest son's objection is not with the younger son getting his inheritance or even his wasting it all, but the father throwing Him a banquet.
I agree this applies to the Gentiles (prodigal son) and the Pharisees (older brother), but these are Kingdom parables and very much about salvation, the coin, the lost lamb and the lost son.

 

[Clare73]

The younger prodigal son already got his inheritance which was half what the oldest son will get and he already spent it all. The oldest son's objection is not with the younger son getting his inheritance or even his wasting it all, but the father throwing Him a banquet.
I agree this applies to the Gentiles (prodigal son) and the Pharisees (older brother), but these are Kingdom parables and very much about salvation, the coin, the lost lamb and the lost son.

Previously addressed.

 

[Oneofhope]

Yes, everyone sins, but that is not Aam's fault. Adam sinned with the nature he had and only one way to sin, but his curse was not to make us all sin by providing some new nature to man.
Sin has purpose for sinners. The only way for mature adult humans to fulfill their earthly objective (as shown by Adam and Eve) is to sin need God's forgiveness, humble accept God's forgiveness as pure undeserved charity and thus obtain Godly type Love (Luke 7, He that is forgiven much Loves much).

I noticed that you're not using Scripture to demonstrate your ideas above. I'm just curious as to why. I, however, always do, but they seem to go unrecognized. Again, I'm curious as to why that might be.

When Adam and Eve sinned, a Sinful Nature was applied, for all people were handed over to Satan as their Spiritual Father. The Human Nature serves as it only can. But the Purpose of Christ is to Redeem people from this Curse. He does so by cutting away the Sinful Nature. That Nature is then replaced by the Divine Nature, where the Human Nature begins to serve it's newly added Nature.

Romans 5:19 NET - "For just as through the disobedience of the one man many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of one man many will be made righteous."

Colossians 2:11, 13 NLT - 11 "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature." ... 13 "You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."

2 Peter 1:4 NLT - "And because of his glory and excellence, he has given us great and precious promises. These are the promises that enable you to share his divine nature and escape the world's corruption caused by human desires."

Clearly, the above Scripture shows that a Sinful Nature is removed and the Divine Nature is its replacement.

I realize that there are only a handful of Christians who speak about these passages above; I'm also curious as to why that might be.

 

[Oneofhope]

You did deserve death because you were born

I agree with all that you said except the above quote. This idea is not within the Bible, but I realize that perhaps your point could have been worded differently. If you have a Scripture for this, I'll add it to my database and use it for future reference. Thanks!

[Edit] - I should add that there is nothing wrong with the Human Nature, for the embodiment of that Nature is to serve. This is why Paul said that it was "weak," for it will serve whichever Spiritual Father we have, be it Satan or God. This is the Purpose of Christ, to release us from the captivity of Satan and place us into the captivity of God so that His Message [will be] spread. True Christians Transform from serving Satan to serving God.

2 Timothy 2:25-26 NLT - "Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people's hearts, and they will learn the truth. Then they will come to their senses and escape from the devil's trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants."

2 Corinthians 2:14 NLT - "But thank God! He has made us his captives and continues to lead us along in Christ's triumphal procession. Now he uses us to spread the knowledge of Christ everywhere, like a sweet perfume."

Are you familiar with the above passages?

 

[bling]

I noticed that you're not using Scripture to demonstrate your ideas above. I'm just curious as to why. I, however, always do, but they seem to go unrecognized. Again, I'm curious as to why that might be.

I did use this: (Luke 7, He that is forgiven much Loves much). Luke 7:36-50

Jesus is conveying the principle of he who is forgiven much will Love much. So, if I humbly accept as pure undeserved charity God’s forgiving me of my sin, I am accepting forgiveness of an unbelievable huge debt, so I will automatically receive an unbelievable huge Love (that is what Godly type Love is).

Once we accept Godly type Love, we can truly Love, grow that Love and have the privilege and honor of Loving God (the forgiver) and others (God’s children) with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy.

When Adam and Eve sinned, a Sinful Nature was applied, for all people were handed over to Satan as their Spiritual Father. The Human Nature serves as it only can. But the Purpose of Christ is to Redeem people from this Curse. He does so by cutting away the Sinful Nature. That Nature is then replaced by the Divine Nature, where the Human Nature begins to serve it's newly added Nature.

Romans 5:19 NET - "For just as through the disobedience of the one man many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of one man many will be made righteous."

There is nothing in that verse saying: “Man’s nature changed”, Adam and Eve were “Very good” by God’s standard and had only one way to sin and sinned with the nature they had, so with all mature humans since Adam and Eve with knowledge of good and evil there are tons of ways to sin, so we will sin without changing our “nature”.

Colossians 2:11, 13 NLT - 11 "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature." ... 13 "You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."

Yes, Christians obtain Godly type Love Luke 7:36-50 (forgiveness) and the indwell holy Spirit, which all makes it possible for us not to sin.

2 Peter 1:4 NLT - "And because of his glory and excellence, he has given us great and precious promises. These are the promises that enable you to share his divine nature and escape the world's corruption caused by human desires."

Clearly, the above Scripture shows that a Sinful Nature is removed and the Divine Nature is its replacement.

Yes, but Adam and Eve sinned with the nature they had, so why was that not also a, “sinful nature”? What were they lacking and why were they lacking?

 

[Oneofhope]

I did use this: (Luke 7, He that is forgiven much Loves much). Luke 7:36-50

Jesus is conveying the principle of he who is forgiven much will Love much. So, if I humbly accept as pure undeserved charity God’s forgiving me of my sin, I am accepting forgiveness of an unbelievable huge debt, so I will automatically receive an unbelievable huge Love (that is what Godly type Love is).

Once we accept Godly type Love, we can truly Love, grow that Love and have the privilege and honor of Loving God (the forgiver) and others (God’s children) with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy.

There is nothing in that verse saying: “Man’s nature changed”, Adam and Eve were “Very good” by God’s standard and had only one way to sin and sinned with the nature they had, so with all mature humans since Adam and Eve with knowledge of good and evil there are tons of ways to sin, so we will sin without changing our “nature”.

Yes, Christians obtain Godly type Love Luke 7:36-50 (forgiveness) and the indwell holy Spirit, which all makes it possible for us not to sin.

Yes, but Adam and Eve sinned with the nature they had, so why was that not also a, “sinful nature”? What were they lacking and why were they lacking?

I appreciate your reply, and perhaps this is my fault, but we are not connecting and I am not one to "argue" over the Story of God.

May your day be perfect . . .

 

[Clare73]

I agree with all that you said except the above quote. This idea is not within the Bible,

We are by nature objects of wrath (Eph 2:3).

We are born with our nature.

 

[Oneofhope]

We are by nature objects of wrath (Eph 2:3).

We are born with our nature.

Agreed. Adam and Eve were born with the Human Nature, but not born with the Sinful Nature. The Sinful Nature was given to all of humanity because of what they had done. This is why the Sinful Nature is cut away by Christ and is replaced by the Divine Nature.

It is advised that people study these three Natures as the Bible offers.

Do you identify with your old Sinful Nature having been cut away?

Colossians 2:11, 13 NLT - 11 "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature." ... 13 "You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."

Now that your life has completely changed, do you identify with being led by your new Divine Nature? Have you received this Promise?

2 Peter 1:4 NLT - "And because of his glory and excellence, he has given us great and precious promises. These are the promises that enable you to share his divine nature and escape the world's corruption caused by human desires."

 

[Clare73]

Agreed. Adam and Eve were born with the Human Nature, but not born with the Sinful Nature. The Sinful Nature was given to all of humanity because of what they had done.

We inherit our sinful nature from Adam. It comes with birth.

This is why the Sinful Nature is cut away by Christ and is replaced by the Divine Nature.

If it were all "cut away," then believers would never sin, which is in contradiction to the word of God in 1 Jn 1:8-10.

2 Peter 1:4 NLT - "And because of his glory and excellence, he has given us great and precious promises. These are the promises that enable you to share his divine nature and escape the world's corruption caused by human desires."

Which is not a claim to removal of the sin nature, totally replacing it with the Divine Nature.

 

[Oneofhope]

We inherit our sinful nature from Adam. It comes with birth.


If it were all "cut away," then believers would never sin, which is in contradiction to the word of God in 1 Jn 1:8-10.

Which is not a claim to removal of the sin nature, totally replacing it with the Divine Nature.

Ok, I'm going to slow us down for a second. Do you reject the below Scripture? (Obvious reminder: These are not my words, but a copy and paste from the Bible.)

Colossians 2:11, 13 NLT - 11 "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature." ... 13 "You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."

 

[Clare73]

Ok, I'm going to slow us down for a second. Do you reject the below Scripture? (Obvious reminder: These are not my words, but a copy and paste from the Bible.)

Colossians 2:11, 13 NLT - 11 "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature." ... 13 "You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."

Do you reject 1 Jn 1:8-10? They are not my words but are from the Bible.

That you set Scripture against itself is de facto demonstration of amateurish error.

We are no longer enslaved to sin as before (Col 2:11 13), but we are not sinless (1 Jn 1:8-10).

 

[Oneofhope]

Do you reject 1 Jn 1:8-10? They are not my words but are from the Bible.

That you set Scripture against itself is de facto demonstration of amateurish error.

We are no longer enslaved to sin as before (Col 2:11 13), but we are not sinless (1 Jn 1:8-10).

Take care. I prayed that the Lord would grant you the greatest of Blessings.