Why don't people get it?

[Neostarwcc]

Why don't people get it? We all have sinned against God therefore we ALL deserve to go to hell. Yet, everybody seems to want to live in this fantasy world that they are good people and God would never do something like that to good people. Really? You're perfect in every way? You've NEVER sinned against God before even once?

That's the standard but yet of course this isn't true of 100% of all people. We would deserve hellfire if we've sinned only once but the huge problem is, we've ALL sinned against God MILLIONS if not BILLIONS of times. Yet God is supposed to overlook your multitude of sins and let you go free just because you try to cover the shamefullness of your sins with a few good works that really only measure up to nothing but filthy rags?

This is a fact. You're either going to hell or heaven when you die. Either you'll be punished or you'll be pardoned. Which will it be? How do YOU measure up to God's perfect standard?

And when you think about the issue that should make your heart skip several beats. There's a way that God designed to be the ONLY way to Heaven. Let's forget the debate of Calvinism vs Arminianism or Catholic vs Protestant or Eastern Orthodox vs Catholics. Let's forget everything that divides us. What unites us is Jesus Christ died on the cross for sinners so that you and I could be forgiven. But instead of getting the completely and totally righteous punishment we ALL deserve we can have Eternal life with God in heaven with all of its wonderful glory.

Or you can continue denying facts and spend an eternity in hell. Either way, NOBODY gets INJUSTICE. Can I get an amen? If I went to hell today I wouldn't be like literally everybody else there. I would be like the thief on the cross and tell everyone there about how foolish they were and about how we DESERVE to be there. You may think im harsh with saying that but when it comes to the truth, God is "harsh". The prophets weren't afraid to speak the truth when it came to God so neither should any true child of God be afraid of speaking the truth. Hell is real and so is Heaven. It's debatable how many people will be in each but they ARE real. They are both VERY real and yes, God will not let sin go unpunished or un dealt with. It's a fact.

 

[bling]

People will do and say almost anything to avoid having to humble themselves to the point of accepting pure undeserved charity as charity.
People want to be Love for the way they want others to perceive them to be and not in spite of the way they really are.

 

[Clare73]

People will do and say almost anything to avoid having to humble themselves to the point of accepting pure undeserved charity as charity.
People want to be Love for the way they want others to perceive them to be and not in spite of the way they really are.

It's not about not accepting charity. In the eyes of Scripture, that is a pitiful and ridiculous notion, absurd on its face.

Nor is it about being loved the way they really are.

Where did you come up with this contra-Biblical counterfeit doctrine?

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

The only difference between people in heaven and in hell, is God's grace.
That you know and believe these things is not because you figured them out on your own, but because God revealed them to you. We are all blinded by our sinful nature and sinful heart, only God can give sight. Only God can teach us about Himself.

 

[bling]

It's not about not accepting charity. In the eyes of Scripture, that is a pitiful and ridiculous notion, absurd on its face.

What do you see as the difference between those saved and those lost?

In the banquet parables the invitation is going out to everyone, with some accepting and others refusing.

Did the older son in the prodigal son story accept or reject the invitation?

Nor is it about being loved the way they really are.

Where did you come up with this contra-Biblical counterfeit doctrine?

The commandment to Love supersedes all the other commands and they are under and come from to the two Love commands.

 

[Clare73]

What do you see as the difference between those saved and those lost?

In the banquet parables the invitation is going out to everyone, with some accepting and others refusing.

"Refusal" of salvation is not about lack of humility in accepting God's charity.
That is an awfully inadequate notion of the Scriptures and man's total depravity; i.e., inability to "receive" salvation (1 Co 2:14, Jn 3:3-5, Ro 8:7-8).

It's about total incapacity. We are born spiritually dead.
Spiritually dead men cannot make spiritual responses, including "accepting salvation."
They are dead. They do not see, hear or care about anything spiritual, including salvation. They are spiritually dead.
They must be born again, raised to new life, by the sovereign will and act of the Holy Spirit, which is as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:6-8), to even see the kingdom of God (Jn 3:3), and to enter it (Jn 3:5).

Did the older son in the prodigal son story accept or reject the invitation?

The commandment to Love supersedes all the other commands and they are under and come from to the two Love commands.

We're talking about God's love here. God does not love sin.

 

[Oneofhope]

Perhaps there is a different angle that could be considered.

Today's church teaches that all deserve to go to hell because they sinned. But is this the case? Or, was it the Law of Moses that seemed to require it? And, who was the Law of Moses given to? Only the Blessed Jews. But, in the Book of Hebrews we are taught that where there is forgiveness, there is no need for sacrifice. The point is, is that what if people were to simply forgive one another . . . would there be a need for any kind of sacrifice at all, even if we were not Jewish? What if Gentiles were to forgive? Would there be the need to repay when damage was done?

We are also taught that if we forgive others, God will also forgive them, hence, where there is forgiveness, there is no need for sacrifice.

Consider Jesus when the woman was caught in adultery and the Jews brought her to Jesus. They wanted to stone her to death according to the Law of Moses. If the Law was meant to be followed, and if Jesus, who was God manifested in the Flesh, was the author of that Law, why didn't He join in on the stoning? Why did He set her free?

Grace, as mentioned in Exodus 33:19 is clear. God will grant His Grace and Mercy to anyone whom He chooses, emphasized by "I am the Lord your God.!" In other words, He is God, and let no one argue. This Grace is Spiritual Circumcision, the removal of the Sinful Nature. This is what separates a Jew from the Law of Moses, and it also separates Gentiles from worldly laws that might condemn us. Paul taught, "The only way to not break Laws is to have no Law to Break!" Again, this revolves around Spiritual Circumcision. So what people ought to be praying for is the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ as clearly outlined in Colossians 2:9-15.

So . . . "I deserve to go to hell because I have sinned."

Wait a second. Adam and Eve sinned and thus a two-part curse was applied to each person. First, the added Sinful Nature was applied to our "heart" or, soul. Second, our bodies are placed under a Curse as well, and we know this because all people will die. The physical Curse remains, but thanks to Jesus, He has broken the Power of the Devil over that Curse so that when we die, having put our granted Faith into Christ, we will be raised with a glorified, Heavenly body. Being removed from this two-level Curse is Grace and Mercy. We cannot remove ourselves from this Curse on our own, for it is the free gift of God through His Holy Son, Jesus Christ. This established the Purpose of Christ, the Work of Christ, and the Effect of Christ. Again, we cannot Redeem ourselves from this Curse. Therefore . . .

Why do I deserve to go to hell having been given this Curse against my "free will" if I had it? What did I do to deserve this Curse? Nothing. Not one bloody thing. We were all under this curse from the moment we were conceived and again, that Curse is utterly unavoidable. This Curse is the cause for us to sin, for the Sinful Nature is the "Way" of the Devil. This Curse is responsible for our sin. So again, why would any of us ever deserve to go to hell?

When we grasp these concepts above, we will further understand the True Gospel of Jesus Christ. We must know and understand the Purpose for Christ, the Work of Christ, and the Holy Effect of Christ.

 

[eleos1954]

Why don't people get it? We all have sinned against God therefore we ALL deserve to go to hell. Yet, everybody seems to want to live in this fantasy world that they are good people and God would never do something like that to good people. Really? You're perfect in every way? You've NEVER sinned against God before even once?

That's the standard but yet of course this isn't true of 100% of all people. We would deserve hellfire if we've sinned only once but the huge problem is, we've ALL sinned against God MILLIONS if not BILLIONS of times. Yet God is supposed to overlook your multitude of sins and let you go free just because you try to cover the shamefullness of your sins with a few good works that really only measure up to nothing but filthy rags?

This is a fact. You're either going to hell or heaven when you die. Either you'll be punished or you'll be pardoned. Which will it be? How do YOU measure up to God's perfect standard?

And when you think about the issue that should make your heart skip several beats. There's a way that God designed to be the ONLY way to Heaven. Let's forget the debate of Calvinism vs Arminianism or Catholic vs Protestant or Eastern Orthodox vs Catholics. Let's forget everything that divides us. What unites us is Jesus Christ died on the cross for sinners so that you and I could be forgiven. But instead of getting the completely and totally righteous punishment we ALL deserve we can have Eternal life with God in heaven with all of its wonderful glory.

Or you can continue denying facts and spend an eternity in hell. Either way, NOBODY gets INJUSTICE. Can I get an amen? If I went to hell today I wouldn't be like literally everybody else there. I would be like the thief on the cross and tell everyone there about how foolish they were and about how we DESERVE to be there. You may think im harsh with saying that but when it comes to the truth, God is "harsh". The prophets weren't afraid to speak the truth when it came to God so neither should any true child of God be afraid of speaking the truth. Hell is real and so is Heaven. It's debatable how many people will be in each but they ARE real. They are both VERY real and yes, God will not let sin go unpunished or un dealt with. It's a fact.

Hell is the grave .... not some burning place .... all who die earthly death lie dormant in the grave (a few exceptions) until Jesus returns and the 1st resurrection happens.

It's about eternal life .... or eternal death. Two deaths .... the first death is not eternal for those in Jesus.

Jesus calls death a sleep because one day Everybody will be resurrected, either to eternal life or eternal death.

The first death (earthly death) for those in Jesus is temporal. The 2nd death is for eternity.

Death is death

God is NOT a torturing monster!!!!

 

[bling]

"Refusal" of salvation is not about lack of humility in accepting God's charity.
That is an awfully inadequate notion of the Scriptures and man's total depravity; i.e., inability to "receive" salvation (1 Co 2:14, Jn 3:3-5, Ro 8:7-8).

Why might the Older Son refuse to go to the banquet for his younger son?

The receiving/accepting of salvation is like those homeless street people accepting the invitation to the banquet, which does not mean they did something holy, righteous, worthy or honorable, they can do it for purely (sinful) selfish reasons, while refusing would be totally illogical, stupid and against your selfish desires.

The invitation to the banquet would be a huge draw for any and every one, but you still have free will to refuse.

It's about total incapacity. We are born spiritually dead.
Spiritually dead men cannot make spiritual responses, including "accepting salvation."
They are dead. They do not see, hear or care about anything spiritual, including salvation. They are spiritually dead.
They must be born again, raised to new life, by the sovereign will and act of the Holy Spirit, which is as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:6-8), to even see the kingdom of God (Jn 3:3-5), much less desire to enter it.

Accepting the invitation is not doing something righteous, holy, worthy, deserving of something, it is just stupid to refuse and pride is part of it. Those who refused the banquet invitation would have resented a Master/King, who will invite anyone and everyone. They want to be “special” and do not want to associate with lowly people, even if the like and respect the Master. It just takes a little humility to not have to feel special.

People going to the banquet are not doing it out of “Love” for the master (they really do not know Him), but for selfishly wanting the food and wine if nothing else.

We're talking about God's love here. God does not love sin.

God is not inviting sin into His banquet, but He is inviting all sinners whom He loves. Did God Love you when you were a sinner or were you never a sinner?

 

[Clare73]

Why might the Older Son refuse to go to the banquet for his younger son?

In the parable, the older son is not lost, he receives his inheritance, has nothing to do with pride or humility.
To him, it is a matter of justice. To him, the prodigal brother has forfeited his inheritance and should not receive it.

 

[bling]

Wait a second. Adam and Eve sinned and thus a two-part curse was applied to each person. First, the added Sinful Nature was applied to our "heart" or, soul. Second, our bodies are placed under a Curse as well, and we know this because all people will die. The physical Curse remains, but thanks to Jesus, He has broken the Power of the Devil over that Curse so that when we die, having put our granted Faith into Christ, we will be raised with a glorified, Heavenly body. Being removed from this two-level Curse is Grace and Mercy. We cannot remove ourselves from this Curse on our own, for it is the free gift of God through His Holy Son, Jesus Christ. This established the Purpose of Christ, the Work of Christ, and the Effect of Christ. Again, we cannot Redeem ourselves from this Curse. Therefore . . .

Why do I deserve to go to hell having been given this Curse against my "free will" if I had it? What did I do to deserve this Curse? Nothing. Not one bloody thing. We were all under this curse from the moment we were conceived and again, that Curse is utterly unavoidable. This Curse is the cause for us to sin, for the Sinful Nature is the "Way" of the Devil. This Curse is responsible for our sin. So again, why would any of us ever deserve to go to hell?

When we grasp these concepts above, we will further understand the True Gospel of Jesus Christ. We must know and understand the Purpose for Christ, the Work of Christ, and the Holy Effect of Christ.

We all die because Ro. 5: 12… death came to all people, because all sinned.

We experience physical death, because all mature adults will sin, no one will fulfill their earthly objective without sinning.

“Curses” are not necessarily “bad” for us, since they should help us in our fulfilling our earthly objective.

Is death “bad” in and of itself?

Could and would we fulfill our earthly objective without death?

We know our knowledge changed with Adam’s sin, we gained knowledge of good and evil, but knowledge in and of itself is not good or bad. Now having tons of ways to do evil (while Adam and Eve had but one way) we will sin when we reach the age of accountability. The question is thus: “If our ‘nature’ would have to change for us to sin, why do we know our nature changed with Adam’s sin.

I do not see how mature adult other than Christ could fulfill their earthly objective without first sinning, even though our sinning upsets God, so is sin necessary?

Never/ever sinning is not man’s objective and was not Adam & Eve’s objective.

Would realizing you are deserving of hell, motivate some individuals to not put off accepting God’s Love/forgiveness?

Very limited free will is needed for us to fulfill our objective.

 

[bling]

In the parable, the older son is not lost, he receives his inheritance, has nothing to do with pride or humility.

Did he have a choice to go or not go to the banquet?

 

[Clare73]

Did he have a choice to go or not go to the banquet?

The parable is about the contrast between the self-centered exclusiveness of the Pharisees, who failed to understand God's love, and the concern and joy of God at the repentance of sinners.

The parable does not indicate whether the father was able to convince the older son to change his mind, just as it was up to the self-centered exclusive Pharisees to decide whether they would change their mind.

 

[bling]

The parable is about the contrast between the self-centered exclusiveness of the Pharisees, who failed to understand God's love, and the concern and joy of God at the repentance of sinners.

The parable does not indicate whether the father was able to convince the older son to change his mind, just as it was up to the self-centered exclusive Pharisees to decthey ide whether they would change their mind.

Very good, so if the Older Son is representing the Pharisees, than they would have to be saved and would have to go to the party, so how is it, up to them?

 

[Strong in Him]

Why don't people get it? We all have sinned against God therefore we ALL deserve to go to hell. Yet, everybody seems to want to live in this fantasy world that they are good people and God would never do something like that to good people. Really? You're perfect in every way? You've NEVER sinned against God before even once?

I think most people would admit that they are not perfect. The thing is that we humans seem to have a scale of sin - i.e. if you haven't murdered/raped/inflicted violence on someone/got a criminal record you're "not so bad". Volunteering for charity/giving to the poor seems to "make up" for any faults, in a lot of peoples' views.
In other words, we have a totally different view of sin than God does. And not everyone believes in God.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

There is certainly hell. But we have to see who goes there. God is not angry enough with one individual sin to send a person to hell. Now I need to be careful to explain what I mean. God is not driven by wrath. In God's eyes, there are those deserving of hell, and those who are not.

Rom 2:6-8 who "WILL RENDER TO EACH ONE ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS": eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

We see firstly that those who by "continual" and "patient" well-doing will inherit life. Those who are "self-seeking" wrath. We have all sinned, and yes God does not enjoy our sinfulness, but He is not angry enough at one sin to send us to hell. What then sends a person to hell? For a start it is our "persistent" deeds, do we persist in well-doing, or do we allow the flesh free reign? We have to make a daily choice to follow righteousness, and not allow room for the flesh (Romans 13:14). Yes we are saved by the cross, and it's forgiveness, but it is not a free ride. We must continually go God's way. Furthermore we see how wrath comes upon the sinner:

Rom 1:18-22 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools,

God gives us His knowledge if we continually suppress it, we become vessels of wrath. God is not by default wrathful.

Irenaeus (120-202 AD) in his Against Heresies - Book 4 Ch 35-38 shows how our choices affect our standing on the day of judgment.

Chap. XXXVII. — Men Are Possessed of Free Will, and Endowed with the Faculty of Making a Choice. It Is Not True, Therefore, That Some Are by Nature Good, and Others Bad.

1. This expression [of our Lord], “How often would I have gathered thy children together, and thou wouldest not,” (Mat 23:37) set forth the ancient law of human liberty, because God made man a free [agent] from the beginning, possessing his own power, even as he does his own soul, to obey the behests (ad utendum sententia) of God voluntarily, and not by compulsion of God. For there is no coercion with God, but a good will [towards us] is present with Him continually. And therefore does He give good counsel to all. And in man, as well as in angels, He has placed the power of choice (for angels are rational beings), so that those who had yielded obedience might justly possess what is good, given indeed by God, but preserved by themselves. On the other hand, they who have not obeyed shall, with justice, be not found in possession of the good, and shall receive condign punishment: for God did kindly bestow on them what was good; but they themselves did not diligently keep it, nor deem it something precious, but poured contempt upon His super-eminent goodness. Rejecting therefore the good, and as it were spuing it out, they shall all deservedly incur the just judgment of God, which also the Apostle Paul testifies in his Epistle to the Romans, where he says, “But dost thou despise the riches of His goodness, and patience, and long-suffering, being ignorant that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest to thyself wrath against the day of wrath, and the revelation of the righteous judgment of God.” “But glory and honour,” he says, “to every one that doeth good.” (Rom 2:4, Rom 2:5, Rom 2:7) God therefore has given that which is good, as the apostle tells us in this Epistle, and they who work it shall receive glory and honour, because they have done that which is good when they had it in their power not to do it; but those who do it not shall receive the just judgment of God, because they did not work good when they had it in their power so to do.

 

[Oneofhope]

“Curses” are not necessarily “bad” for us, since they should help us in our fulfilling our earthly objective.

Galatians 3:13 NLT - "But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

The Adamic Curse is what separates people from the Lord. The Purpose of Christ is to Redeem us from this Curse. The Purpose of Christ leads us to the logical conclusion that there must be "Work" that He performs in His Redemptive process. The first part is Circumcision of the Heart.

Colossians 2:11, 13 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature." ... 13 "You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."

Knowing therefore the Work of Christ, the next logical conclusion is that there is an Effect of Christ's Work. Ezekiel shows us the Promised Blessing of Grace, which is Circumcision of the heart, but this passage set makes it clear that the change of heart produces obedience. This obedience is what Paul called "Transformation" in Romans 12:2.

Below, note the phrase "so that." This directly implies a changed life.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 NLT - "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. Your filth will be washed away, and you will no longer worship idols. And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart. And I will put my Spirit in you so that you will follow my decrees and be careful to obey my regulations."

Curses are not only bad, they are the crux of the human malady. And so this is why I don't feel that I deserve to go to hell. Instead, what I, and all who belong to God deserve, is His Grace. We did nothing wrong to receive the Adamic Curse.

 

[Beslowtoanger]

Is it not that the only unforgivable sin is that of knowing the truth but wilfully rejecting the truth therefore blaspheme the Holy Spirit?

Blasphemy against the Spirit is ongoing hardening of your heart against the Holy Spirit who is trying to lead you to repent of sin and believe in Christ. It is an issue of the heart that manifests in one’s words (and actions). Someone who hardens his or her heart against the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit and who refuses to repent of sin and turn to Christ in faith has committed a sin
that never can be forgiven. The person who repeatedly and without repentance rejects the Holy Spirit’s testimony to Christ is the one who has blasphemed the Holy Spirit. That sin is the only sin that never will be forgiven.

So we always end up at the point of true and heartfelt forgiveness and repentance, changing to a new creature and walking a holy/loving path to the VERY best of our ability, my understanding is God will “forget previous sin” if this is done with absolute open heart surgery?

I personally find the original post as both judgemental and frightening in equal measure using terms of ALL and everyone, it’s also the first time I’ve read that “God is Harsh”

Im new to absolutely devoting my whole being to Christ, to God, to love and learning of the truth, I’m looking for inspiration not perspiration from anxiety.

I trust in the Holy Spirit guiding me, I have many examples of that so I feel that I’m on the right path, but to feel that future slip ups are dealt with Harshly fills me with dread, it sends fear through me but fear does not come from God. What do people do when they fear something? They run, messages should be all about Grace, salvation, forgiveness, love, repentance and education to those that don’t believe, that is the mission of every Christian, that’s what we need to spread in words (imo)

Your post may have some truths, but be mindful of generalisations when so many are committing wholly to a holy life and some new Christians may well be turned off from living in heightened anxiety from powerful and fearing words.

I post this with peace and love to you, I’m just explaining how I felt reading your passion.

God Bless you

 

[Clare73]

Very good, so if the Older Son is representing the Pharisees, than they would have to be saved and would have to go to the party, so how is it, up to them?

The party does not represent salvation itself.

The party represents the rejoicing of God at salvation of the sinner (Lk 15:7).

 

[Neostarwcc]

Great points you guys brought up,

I'm glad most people here agree that this is a problem amongst Christians. Christians need to understand what the punishment for sin is before they can begin to fathom what they've been saved FROM. It's amazing that God sent his son to die for sinners and to redeem his people. You cannot fully grasp that without grasping that everybody is guilty. You're not exempt but have been saved from it by God himself.