Why don't Lutherans cross themselves?

[RadMan]

Well, the Scriptures do not tell us to only pray in private. I think that you are imposing your impressions and feelings on anyone who, for all the right reasons, would give thanks to God at anytime and for any reason under the sun.

A little charity goes a long way.


Q

Q ya know we all appreciate your input and insights into this forum but to make sly innuendos about peoples beliefs, actions or preferences is not a hot idea. I don't think you would like it if I took a couple of people over to EO and started to make sly remarks to them. .

 

[Zecryphon]

Q ya know we all appreciate your input and insights into this forum but to make sly innuendos about peoples beliefs, actions or preferences is not a hot idea. I don't think you would like it if I took a couple of people over to EO and started to make sly remarks to them. .

Thanks, Rad! I appreciate it. Comments like the one he made towards me say more about him than they do about me.

 

[Qoheleth]

Interesting statement.

You also said elsewhere that not everyone could be a martyr and it is a gift from God. OK.

Let's say you are not a martyr.

Do you personally believe you will go to heaven when you die as a non-martyr?

Thanks,
Ed

I did say that I believe martyrdom is a gift from God. I didnt say not everyone could be a martyr...did I?

And of course those faithful, not martyred, will be with Christ in paradise.

Q

 

[Qoheleth]

And I think you're trying present your opinion of my statements, which you have not understood in context, as facts. My statements were directed not at anyone who prays in public, but at people who make a show of praying in public. There is a difference.

I was responding to the topic of the OP and your post as it addresses it in public.

You said...

The Bible says we are to pray without ceasing, so why not pray a prayer of thanksgiving from the parking lot to the front door of the restaurant? Why make a show of it? We are to pray behind closed doors, not in public like the pagans do. Like I said, I've never understood it.

To be fair, I do not see you allowing, at least in your opinion, any charity to those who do pray in public or at the very least make the sign of the cross in public.

In fact it appears in your posts, unqualified, that you are against public prayer...period. I assume you mean that if anyone is nearby, you can not appreciate one openly praying in anyway whether it be a modest crossing of oneself or otherwise.

I may be getting the wrong idea from what you have said, so, I suppose if you elaborated on when public prayer would be acceptable, my thick head wouldnt be so confused.

Of course you do not owe me an explanation and Im not demanding one either. Just trying to be on the same page, thats all.


Q

 

[Qoheleth]

Yeah, I've already admitted that I was probably reading that tone into your statement.

Ok, good. I just wanted to be clear myself.


Q

 

[Qoheleth]

Q ya know we all appreciate your input and insights into this forum but to make sly innuendos about peoples beliefs, actions or preferences is not a hot idea. I don't think you would like it if I took a couple of people over to EO and started to make sly remarks to them. .

It can be done to me anytime...so when I question a statement, draw a comparison or ask for clarification...its a sly innuendo??

Rad, would you kindly show me specifically where I have been offensive or particularly sly in this thread. I would like to clear the air of any misconceptions as to my intent.


Q

 

[Qoheleth]

Thanks, Rad! I appreciate it. Comments like the one he made towards me say more about him than they do about me.

Zecryphon, it appears that you are condemning public prayer (others nearby) without any qualification. I stated that I felt you were forwarding impressions and feelings of others who do pray in public as being a bit subjective even uncharitable.

Of course I believe that there may be many who "put on a show" for others when they pray in public.

Yet, there are many who with a sincere heart and attitude offer thanksgiving and praise to God whenever and where ever. I just think that its a case of "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" thing.

Im not condemning your opinion. I just think its harsh.


Q

 

[RadMan]

Q we have all read the posts in here. We know what we said. We know you have said. We all agree to disagree. Don't beat a dead horse.

Im not condemning your opinion. I just think its harsh.

No need to be confrontational. We all have differences of opinion and that's mostly what this is about. Lets leave it at that. Move on.

 

[Qoheleth]

Q we have all read the posts in here. We know what we said. We know you have said. We all agree to disagree. Don't beat a dead horse.

No need to be confrontational. We all have differences of opinion and that's mostly what this is about. Lets leave it at that. Move on.

Rad, Im just answering posts and offering clarification.

Perhaps your right though. Forums are really not the place to hold substantive, meaningful, intelligent dialogue. So much is easily misconstrued, taken out of context, accusations made and flatly ignored.


Q

 

[Tofferer]

Ok, what does the Bible say?

 

[BakaFidelis]

Ok, what does the Bible say?

it doesn't "say" anything, you have to read it!

bwahahaha

*cough*

 

[porterross]

it doesn't "say" anything, you have to read it!

bwahahaha

*cough*

 

[RadMan]

Rad, Im just answering posts and offering clarification.

Perhaps your right though. Forums are really not the place to hold substantive, meaningful, intelligent dialogue. So much is easily misconstrued, taken out of context, accusations made and flatly ignored.


Q

Your snide remarks don't help. As I said. Move on. We're not EO. You can talk "tradition" with all your buddies there. We're not into the Law like you guys are.

 

[mrshoperose]

it doesn't "say" anything, you have to read it!

bwahahaha

*cough*

Ha ha ha....

Actually you could listen to it on CD....

 

[Tofferer]

sigh

 

[BakaFidelis]

Ha ha ha....

Actually you could listen to it on CD....

Aha! but still you are hearing someone speak God's Word as they read... Not technically hearing the book itself.

sigh

I know I know... But if you think my jokes are bad, wait until I pun!

 

[mrshoperose]

Aha! but still you are hearing someone speak God's Word as they read... Not technically hearing the book itself.



I know I know... But if you think my jokes are bad, wait until I pun!

eh...
whatever....
anyways....
on with the thread...

 

[Zecryphon]

I was responding to the topic of the OP and your post as it addresses it in public.

You said...



To be fair, I do not see you allowing, at least in your opinion, any charity to those who do pray in public or at the very least make the sign of the cross in public.

In fact it appears in your posts, unqualified, that you are against public prayer...period. I assume you mean that if anyone is nearby, you can not appreciate one openly praying in anyway whether it be a modest crossing of oneself or otherwise.

I may be getting the wrong idea from what you have said, so, I suppose if you elaborated on when public prayer would be acceptable, my thick head wouldnt be so confused.

Of course you do not owe me an explanation and Im not demanding one either. Just trying to be on the same page, thats all.


Q

"To be fair, I do not see you allowing, at least in your opinion, any charity to those who do pray in public or at the very least make the sign of the cross in public."

I never addressed making the sign of the cross in public or said anything about the people who do make that sign in public. My comments were about those who make a show of praying in public, particularly the people who raise their voices for others to hear when they do pray.

"In fact it appears in your posts, unqualified, that you are against public prayer...period."

That is not what I have said at all. Show me where I've said that, please. I'll wait. In fact, I said to another poster that he should pray in public as he feels led to by the Holy Spirit. This is from post # 186 of this thread:

Quote:
"We pray when we go to a restaurant and other places in public, but we don't go making ourselves purposefully known. Should God cause someone to overhear us and the spoken Word in prayer to touch someone's heart, then so be it. But we are definitely not going to pray just so we can hope someone admires us."

My response: That's great. You should pray as you feel led to do so. If the Holy Spirit leads you to pray in public, who am I to say 'thou shalt not pray in public'. LOL

So your statement here about what I believe about public prayer is not based upon what I have said about this matter, but rather upon your own misinterpretation of what I have said.

"I assume you mean that if anyone is nearby, you can not appreciate one openly praying in anyway whether it be a modest crossing of oneself or otherwise."

You can assume anything you like about me, but doing so will not make your statements or interpretations about what I've typed here correct. You believe I have made statements I have not made, and have addressed issues I have never addressed. You believe I am against people making the sign of the cross in public when I have not mentioned one word about that practice. How does that work?

"I may be getting the wrong idea from what you have said, so, I suppose if you elaborated on when public prayer would be acceptable, my thick head wouldnt be so confused."

Perhaps if you just read what I typed instead of reading statements into my posts that are not there, you would be less confused. If you feel led to pray in public, do so, but don't raise your voice when you do, or make a show of it. Because then you're praying to be noticed by others, not to give thanks to God for the blessings He has given to you.

"Of course you do not owe me an explanation and Im not demanding one either. Just trying to be on the same page, thats all."

Forgive me for not believing you.

 

[Zecryphon]

Zecryphon, it appears that you are condemning public prayer (others nearby) without any qualification. I stated that I felt you were forwarding impressions and feelings of others who do pray in public as being a bit subjective even uncharitable.

Of course I believe that there may be many who "put on a show" for others when they pray in public.

Yet, there are many who with a sincere heart and attitude offer thanksgiving and praise to God whenever and where ever. I just think that its a case of "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" thing.

Im not condemning your opinion. I just think its harsh.


Q

"Zecryphon, it appears that you are condemning public prayer (others nearby) without any qualification."

Funny thing about that. It doesn't seem that way to anybody else.

"I stated that I felt you were forwarding impressions and feelings of others who do pray in public as being a bit subjective even uncharitable."

In this thread I have shared my personal experience in this area. I have prayed in public with people whom I felt were making a show of it. How is it an unqualified opinion if I am speaking from past experience?

"Of course I believe that there may be many who "put on a show" for others when they pray in public."

Thank you. So I'm not alone in my opinion of some people who do pray in public. You will notice that I did not condemn all who pray in public.

"Yet, there are many who with a sincere heart and attitude offer thanksgiving and praise to God whenever and where ever. I just think that its a case of "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" thing."

It would be if I were doing that. I am not. I have told people to pray as they feel led to by the Holy Spirit. That is hardly throwing the baby out with the bath water. Now, care to offer an answer to the question I asked earlier in this thread? Why can't a person say a prayer of thanksgiving to God while walking from the car to the restaurant?

Im not condemning your opinion. I just think its harsh.

It only seems harsh because you have misunderstood what I'm really saying here. If you understood from the outset that my comments were directed at people who made a show of public prayer and not all people who pray in public, it would not have seemed harsh at all, but rather, I suspect, appropriate.

 

[Qoheleth]

Your snide remarks don't help. As I said. Move on. We're not EO. You can talk "tradition" with all your buddies there. We're not into the Law like you guys are.

Of course you won't be specific will you? I have not said one single thing EO here. The "traditions" discussed in this thread are most certainly Lutheran traditions...and thats what Im referencing.

Please be direct and precise if you mean to accuse, or rather say nothing at all. I think thats only fair.

Pot calling the kettle...you know.


Q