Why doesn't God forgive people in hell?

[drich0150]

And the Father in that story forgive the adult that has come to him.

Isn't that adult still The Fathers Child, and not His spouse?
Because the son is still the Fathers Child no matter his age, forgiveness is always forth coming.

According to what you just wrote we are children in this life. It isn't until we are in the next life that we grow into the role of spouse. It is the lack of belief in our child-like state that our eternity is judged on.

All that is required from us is simple child like faith.. Mt:18 2He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

So yeah, our eternity hinges on our ability to simply go to God as a little child would. Learn to Love Him a simply and completely as a small child would, and to forgive as he has been forgiven..

Otherwise we turn and walked away from our Father, but the good news is while we have breath He awaits our return.

By your posting thus far we aren't adults until after this life.

As I said in my first post to you, The term Child doesn't necessarily mean a 5 year old. Nor did I say we only grow up after we leave this life. I said after this life we relinquish our role as children, and pick up a new role as a spouse. Remember an adult can still be considered as someone's child.

It is the choices of the child that this determination is based.

It's the choices of adult children of the Living God, do we decide whether or not to become the bride of Christ. And Yes as an adult Child of the Father, our eternities rest on the decision we make now.

Regardless, that is not UNCONDITIONAL love. That is "you may enjoy my glory only if you loved me (and by your reasoning as a child)". Unconditional love is just that, without conditions. Unless love and servitude is given in this life love will not be returned to us in the next.

Who said anything of God's love to be unconditional? As you Pointed out it is very conditional, as I'm sure the your love to your husband or future husband will be/is.

The First condition comes in the form of His Greatest Command to us Love the Lord your God with all of your Heart, With all of your Mind, with all of your Spirit and with all of your Strength.

The next being we have to except Jesus Christ as our Savior.

Another great condition is to Forgive others as you wish to be forgiven. If you can not forgive others as God has forgiven your sin, then your sins will not be forgiven.

These are some of God's conditions for love.

God's definition to Love can be found in 1 Corinthians 13:4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8Love never fails...

No where is it said that Love is or should be unconditional.

In Luke 15 the child left, separated himself, and in that experience grew. He came back asked for forgiveness. He choose to leave, the Father choose to forgive.

Absolutely. As a child we all have this option at anytime.

Even if we are wrong in this life, we see, kneel, and confess in the next.

If we wait till all has been revealed, then we wait as a gold digger would to see if her fiancé could support the life style she wanted to have or maintain. But until that was all proven without a shadow of a doubt to her, she continued to sleep around with whom ever until all of her appetites have been filled..

Is this love on her part? AGAIN, Would you marry someone Like this? Then Why Do You Expect God To?

If She doesnot truly love the bride groom then why does she want to be with Him so badly? Is it because it's better than the alternative? Or do you think in that split moment, when all is revealed, a life time of resentment and Hatred for Her Father will turn into love for a Man Exactly like Her Father? Or Again at that point will she simply say anything to establish or maintain a comfortable life style?

The reality is there are very very few death bed conversions, Do you think it is that easy to fool God? Or possible trap Him in a loop hole? Also know there has not been one documented case of next life conversion. So why would you think you could trap Him in this "unconditional love circle of logic?"
All of this is a matter of the Heart, and none of it has anything to do with Good Works. No one will earn, Cheat or steal there way into Heaven. God has give us the Only way, and that is as the Bride of Christ.

If there is a "too late" then the love is not unconditional.

Unconditional Love is one of Hallmark's sentiments, it's not a "scriptural principle."

 

[RedRaven]

It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs

read that. and.....

Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8Love never fails...

 

[RedRaven]

let me add:

We are to love God as simply as a child loves? A child without doubt loves unconditionally. We were made in the image of God. How is it we have come to know to love unconditionally? And if God asks for our unconditional love is it just to not return the same?

 

[[serious]]

Some denominations believe God does. Views of the afterlife are not monolithic within Christianity.

 

[drich0150]

it keeps no record of wrongs,

Doesnot equate to unconditional love. Here to be forgiven we must except Jesus as our Lord and Savior, and we must forgive others, and the sins they commit against us as the Father has forgiven the sins we have committed against him

These are "conditions" or reason in keeping no record of wrongs.

Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8Love never fails...

You must also look at:
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.

If you reciprocated the love you expect, then Humility would place your heart in a position to kneel before God, Before your time here is done. If your love here is not complete in your innocents (as a child) then how can it be after your final revelation/transformation? (In the next life?)

And if God asks for our unconditional love is it just to not return the same?

God does not ask for unconditional love. He asks you to love Him with all of your being. These are two very different things you are trying to make into one.

A child does not love unconditionally a child loves (when they choose to) completely. This is what is required from us as children.

How is it we have come to know to love unconditionally?

We haven't. We have taken a biblical principle (Love God with all of your being) and placed a greeting card sentimentality to it.
No one can truly love unconditionally, Because True Love does not exists in this form. (See 1co.13:4) we may think we can, or we may say we do, and we may even truly aspire to it, but no matter how far we go their will always be a line/condition we can not cross for the sake of "love." If we do cross that line then we risk a venture into codependency, which can sometimes feel like love, but is not love at all.

The Idea or the expectation of "Unconditional Love" from our Heavenly Father has fooled many "good people" in placing their eternal fate in the approval of their peers.. Unfortunately getting into Heaven isn't a matter of living a life doing more good things than bad, nor is there a vote. Heaven is the place set aside for those who Love God with all of there being, whether they be Good, Bad, unpopular, or even not religious.. The judgment one would make on another, has nothing to do with getting into Heaven. Nor is Heaven a place where people can Go if they actually see Hell, and are frighten by it. Heaven has Been prepared for The Jesus and His Bride. (the Church.)

If You want to Goto "Christian" Heaven, you must do it His (The Christian God's) way.

 

[RedRaven]

Do you have children?

 

[[serious]]

Do you have children?

I assume you are going to ask if you punish them even though you love them? If you are going there, no, I don't eternally torture them when they say "you're not my dad".

 

[RedRaven]

That actually wasn't were I was going with that question though that is a good point as well

No one can truly love unconditionally, Because True Love does not exists in this form. (See 1co.13:4) we may think we can, or we may say we do, and we may even truly aspire to it, but no matter how far we go their will always be a line/condition we can not cross for the sake of "love." If we do cross that line then we risk a venture into codependency, which can sometimes feel like love, but is not love at all.

That does not read like someone who has children. What line would a piece of you have to cross for you to no longer love them. Can you in all honesty tell a mother who grew that child within her, nourished them from her body, taught them and watched them grow, wiped their tears and kissed their boo boos that there is a limitation to that love? What is it? At what point does that love stop, under what conditions? When it stops being easy? I can also say that my love for my children, or my husband has nothing to do with codependency.

If you reciprocated the love you expect, then Humility would place your heart in a position to kneel before God, Before your time here is done.

and while I am replying let me address that. That statement is almost arrogant. It's almost as saying that those who do not know God haven't reciprocated love. I have and do reciprocate the love I expect. My heart is humble and guides me frequently to helping others. It also gives me the ability to feel for others. More than just empathy but to actually feel what they are feeling. When I was a Christian the pastors I knew said it was one of God's gifts. I was labeled a "feeler". That hasn't changed even though my ideas on faith have. You shouldn't question the heart of another person, especially when you don't know them.

 

[RedRaven]

Also, I am sorry if it seems like I ignored your other post.

Some denominations believe God does. Views of the afterlife are not monolithic within Christianity.

I didn't ignore this at all. I assumed the doctrine of Universal Salvation. Maybe I shouldn't have. If you would like to explain further I'm all eyes.

 

[drich0150]

What line would a piece of you have to cross for you to no longer love them. Can you in all honesty tell a mother who grew that child within her, nourished them from her body, taught them and watched them grow, wiped their tears and kissed their boo boos that there is a limitation to that love? What is it? At what point does that love stop, under what conditions? When it stops being easy?

You are thinking or "feeling" in the wrong direction. "Unconditional love" as I know it is love without condition correct? Then what if a child asks something of you that would go against the true nature of true love? (Found in 1 Co. 13) What if He held his love for you hostage until you completed his request? Is caving in True love? Or, Is having and maintaining boundaries "conditional Love?" As I said before "true love" has limits, and by it's definition can not be unconditional.

I have and do reciprocate the love I expect. My heart is humble and guides me frequently to helping others. It also gives me the ability to feel for others. More than just empathy but to actually feel what they are feeling.

..Are you looking for "Love" from "others?" or From God? We have two commands from God that supersede all others. Love Him with all of our being, and then love your neighbor. Perhaps you should focus your attention on the first command. If that is where you wish to see His love in your life. Again good deeds are not a way to God's grace. Only way to God's grace is direct love from you.

When I was a Christian the pastors I knew said it was one of God's gifts. I was labeled a "feeler". That hasn't changed even though my ideas on faith have.

Any gift, used without or for the Glory of God can quickly become a point of pride/sin. So the very thing God may bless you with, will be what keeps you from Him. So be careful with His Gifts.

That hasn't changed even though my ideas on faith have. You shouldn't question the heart of another person, especially when you don't know them.

I don't need to question or "feel" you have made it perfectly clear where you stand. All I was doing was explaining How Love and Humility works together to bring a person to God. If you feel "convicted" by my statement then maybe you should look at it again in an honest way, rather labeling my efforts in an attempt to discredit my intentions.

 

[RedRaven]

I think you are seriously missing my point and the longer this goes on the more condescending you get. It's a nice touch. I asked an honest question that has been weighing on me. Good parents have boundaries. I don't contest that. I can't get past the permanent separation. You jump between being a child and then being an adult preparing for marriage. If my husband was irresponsible, or did any of the bad things you listed would I want to stay with him? Probably not. If when faced with what the truth of what he had done caused him to, with an honest heart, fall to his knees and apologize, confess whatever would I offer a second chance? I'd like to say yes and my love is much smaller than God's conditional or not.

Any gift, used without or for the Glory of God can quickly become a point of pride/sin. So the very thing God may bless you with, will be what keeps you from Him. So be careful with His Gifts.

Condescending much? Is it bothersome to you that a non believer has a "gift" from God even though the faith isn't there. I never claimed it was a gift from God. Nor did I mention it to brag. It is a part of who I am. The burden that comes with it is sometimes heavy. But having an idea of how someone truly feel helps me to help them. It's not something I brag about. It's not something I generally every bring up ever. You brought the issue of heart up.

I don't need to question or "feel" you have made it perfectly clear where you stand. All I was doing was explaining How Love and Humility works together to bring a person to God. If you feel "convicted" by my statement then maybe you should look at it again in an honest way, rather labeling my efforts in an attempt to discredit my intentions.

Once again, condescending. I didn't "feel" "convicted". And before you label my speaking to your condescending tone as "conviction" it is not. How many times can you put "feel" in quotations? Something about that got to you. Maybe it is you who feels "convicted".

If you wish to reply to this by all means go ahead. If the next post is filled with more of the same condescending tone I will not respond. I think at this point we're going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[[serious]]

Also, I am sorry if it seems like I ignored your other post.


I didn't ignore this at all. I assumed the doctrine of Universal Salvation. Maybe I shouldn't have. If you would like to explain further I'm all eyes.

That is one example. There are also ideas of purgatory, no afterlife, afterlife only for the saved, and the idea that people could still be saved after death. All of these have been major, if not dominant interpretations during periods of the judeochristian history.

 

[drich0150]

Good parents have boundaries.

Then for a good parent Love, is conditional. If God is a good parent then wouldn't his love also have to be conditional?

I can't get past the permanent separation.

According to scripture, once this life is over you cease being a child of God, and are considered apart of the Bride of Christ. The wedding or marriage analogy is used through out the new testament, to describe our existence after this life is over.

But while in this life we are described as being like children.

If when faced with what the truth of what he had done caused him to, with an honest heart, fall to his knees and apologize, confess whatever would I offer a second chance? I'd like to say yes and my love is much smaller than God's conditional or not.

What if your husband mistreated you and sinned against you and wanted to be far from you until he Found out you won the 250 million dollar power ball? And then "with a honest heart fell to his knees and apologized?"

Once we break the bonds of Death and are reborn, we are given complete knowledge of who God is, and what it is He can/will do for us. Plus we will also know what Hell really is.. This is why I say it's kinda like finding out your spouse won the Lottery after you have declared you want a divorce, and then beg to come back.. What you want to come back to is not Love for your spouse, You want to come back to, or establish a life style.. It's what God can do for you, not Who God is to you, that has you wanting to come back at that point..

Heaven is a place that people who Love God can do so openly.. If you don't truly Love God then, why would you want to go? to avoid Hell? All who look to heaven as an alternative to Hell, even if they got in would not enjoy it anyway.

Look at all of the angels who knowingly risked Hell by rebelling against God. Do you really think any of us would be any different? How many years can a discontented person sit in church and not want the service to end?

Once again, condescending.

Condescending much?

If you wish to reply to this by all means go ahead. If the next post is filled with more of the same condescending tone I will not respond. I think at this point we're going to have to agree to disagree.

I completely apologize if you take the way I try and teach as condescending toward you or anyone else. I am not a teacher or consular by trade. I am a mechanic. When I approach a problem I go into a diagnostic mode. I try to quickly Identify the problem as I see it, and then test.

I know people don't like to be "tested," and again I am sorry if I have pushed too hard. But I believe I have Identified the problem you have, and most of it resides in your theology. What I believe the best way to help you, is to have you identify your own problems and address them. When I ask or re ask a specific question it is to get you to use your (in this case theology) and then I try and use situations and analogy to show you where your theology fall short in accordance to the gospel, by using or repeating a situation till you can readily see it for yourself. When I do use things like "Quotes" I am trying to show you how a principle really doesn't have complete continuity in contrast to whatever it is I am speaking about.. That said I am nowhere near perfect, and I am subject to emotion.. Especially when I feel someone is being.. Purposely Difficult. Not that you were or were not.

Is it bothersome to you that a non believer has a "gift" from God even though the faith isn't there. I never claimed it was a gift from God. Nor did I mention it to brag. It is a part of who I am. The burden that comes with it is sometimes heavy. But having an idea of how someone truly feel helps me to help them. It's not something I brag about. It's not something I generally every bring up ever. You brought the issue of heart up.

My comments about your gift were not meant to be a disparaging remark.. In Fact I believe that God gives all of us "gifts" but again like I said, these gifts if not used for the Glory of God, they will ultimately be what drives a permanent wedge between us and God if we are not careful.. Reason being a person could see their Gift as a blessing for there life's work or behavior.. Thereby never allowing the person in question to ever see a need for or come to true repentance.. If we don't know we need God desperately then we will never seek him out. Does that make any sense?

In my writing I am trying to build a need in, or show you a void your theology. That in your theology your absolutes are just a personal interpretation of who you want God to be. Of which there is little True substance to build a lasting faith on. When you brought out your rarely mentioned gift, I saw it as a means for you to try and justify your efforts to me..

In a sense kinda like a presidential citation or some kind of reward that validates your efforts and or beliefs. Nothing I have said to you is meant to be taken as someone who feels superior speaking down to someone else. I'm just trying to get you to scrutinize your own beliefs, in light of scripture, and truly look at the results.

I have found that the frontal approach (when I am direct, like now) really puts people on the defensive, So I have tried several other tactics. I have found moderate success in this method, for those who truly seek answers and are not trolling, looking to bait a topic or those who are looking to justify their actions.

So again I am sorry if I was condescending in anyway. Also know this doesn't change any of the truths I have presented. Granted they could have been presented by someone else maybe more to your liking, but at the end of this life. according to what is written in scripture, we have this life to make a choice. once this life is over, we will live with our choice for all of eternity.. Whether you fully understand the Why, or if you don't. This truth remains, and no matter how you justify your current beliefs know that they are in direct contradiction to God's actual written word.

 

[RedRaven]

I am not feeling tested (that statement also sounded a bit superior). I actually don't mind being tested. I enjoy taking a reflective look at myself, you can't grow if you don't. You were coming across as if you felt superior.

Then what if a child asks something of you that would go against the true nature of true love? (Found in 1 Co. 13) What if He held his love for you hostage until you completed his request? Is caving in True love? Or, Is having and maintaining boundaries "conditional Love?" As I said before "true love" has limits, and by it's definition can not be unconditional.

Let me hit on this more thoroughly. If my child wanted something I felt wasn't in their best interest, or would cause more harm then good I would deny it. That isn't a limitation on my love. And I know which way the steering wheel in your mind went. Apples and oranges. Denying heaven is not in the best interest otherwise all of God's children would be denied. Further, my child can hold their love for me hostage if they so wish. That will have no effect on my love. My daughter already doesn't always agree with me and probably doesn't always like me. It happens but I make it clear to her that "I understand you don't like me very much right now, but that doesn't mean that I don't love you". That isn't a limitation. You never answered if you have children. If you don't you can't understand my position. You can have a close nephew or niece, a cousin, or whatever but it IS NOT the same.

But I believe I have Identified the problem you have, and most of it resides in your theology.

Agreed. Bet you weren't expecting that.

However, I am happy (finally) with my theology. It took me a long time to get here. I spent 10 years of that time following a Christian path. I think it's obvious by now that is no longer where I am at and if you try and take my theology and place it within the confines of Christianity it will not fit.

When you brought out your rarely mentioned gift, I saw it as a means for you to try and justify your efforts to me..

I am sorry if that is how I came across. I don't feel a need to justify myself to you or anyone else for that matter. For me it is something that is there. It allows me to relate deeper to people I am talking to and trying to help. It give me insight, but it is in no way something I brag about. There are times when I appreciate the insight and there are times I wish I could turn it off. Nor do I see it as a blessing for my life's work or for being a good person. It has always been there and I don't think I am special for it being there. It's a part of what makes up who I am and that person isn't anymore special or upheld than anyone else.

So I have tried several other tactics. I have found moderate success in this method, for those who truly seek answers and are not trolling, looking to bait a topic or those who are looking to justify their actions.

I prefer a direct approach but I am a direct person. Let me assure you that I am not trolling or trying to bait the topic, nor am I trying to justify my actions. This has been a topic on mind. I've tried speaking with my husband about it but his theology is similar to mine and the discussion doesn't get far. You provided a great deal of insight. You provided why it is people believe in that doctrine. Had you been more direct we might have gotten to the heart of my question (unconditional love) much sooner.

I appreciate your time and insight.

 

[drich0150]

(that statement also sounded a bit superior)

Testing in a sense to see if a circuit has continuity, I am not testing because I am in a position of authority. Perhaps I should have said probing.

Let me hit on this more thoroughly. If my child wanted something I felt wasn't in their best interest, or would cause more harm then good I would deny it. That isn't a limitation on my love. And I know which way the steering wheel in your mind went. Apples and oranges. Denying heaven is not in the best interest otherwise all of God's children would be denied. Further, my child can hold their love for me hostage if they so wish. That will have no effect on my love. My daughter already doesn't always agree with me and probably doesn't always like me. It happens but I make it clear to her that "I understand you don't like me very much right now, but that doesn't mean that I don't love you". That isn't a limitation. You never answered if you have children. If you don't you can't understand my position. You can have a close nephew or niece, a cousin, or whatever but it IS NOT the same.

Here again as a Child of God you have that clean slate from your heavenly father anytime you want it..(As a child) or rather in this Life.

As scripture tells us when this life is over we the Church are looked on as the bride of Christ. At which point we are no longer children, but a spouse. As you have said in your own heart. Your Spouse, and Your Children have access to two very different kinds of Love.

I believe this is why we have these types of relationships in our lives, so that we may understand what God wants and expects from us.

Denying heaven is not in the best interest otherwise all of God's children would be denied.

Being denied Heaven is not God's choice for us, it is our answer to His question: Do you Love me? God merely holds us the choices we make with our hearts, over the course of our life time. If we do not love Him He will not force us to be with Him.

How could He, if He truly loved us? If someone Doesn't want to marry you will you force them?

However, I am happy (finally) with my theology. It took me a long time to get here. I spent 10 years of that time following a Christian path. I think it's obvious by now that is no longer where I am at and if you try and take my theology and place it within the confines of Christianity it will not fit.

Here's the thing if you want to goto God's Heaven. You must do it His way. Having a theology of your own doesn't count for anything. Unless you also have your own version of Heaven waiting.

What will you say when standing before God and He asks you why you could not follow His plan of salvation? Will you site your own theology? Will you be so bold as to approach Him with your ideas of True love and What you perceive His role/responsibility in all He has created should be?

If True Love (as recorded by Paul in 1Co 13 says) Love is not proud, it does not boast, it is not rude, it is not self seeking, it is slow to anger, it doesnot delight in evil but rejoices in truth. Then How could you proclaim any of your theology to God when His commands are here for you to have and make your own? If your love was the type of love required for true repentance, then why not repent and go to the Father now? Why not return Home? Why wait till until all proclaim Jesus Christ is Lord?

As I understand it, the person who waits doesn't want God, only what He has to offer.. I also see this in Your need to place Your salvation, or Your damnation in God's lap, by questioning his ability to "love" as you define the word.

If God had to go by your measure, in your eyes would He still be God? If He failed in a simple understanding of what love is,(to you) could He even have created Heaven or the Earth, and all that fill the earth?

We need God to be the Alpha and the Omega, or He would not be God. If He were not God, then truly what could He offer?

So I say again if You Want To Go To GOD'S Heaven, (The Alpha and Omega's Heaven) your going to have to Do it His way.

You never answered if you have children. If you don't you can't understand my position. You can have a close nephew or niece, a cousin, or whatever but it IS NOT the same.

My children or possible lack of them will never be apart of this or any discussion, this is the reason I did not answer your question.

If you wish to dismiss what I have said about God's love based on your personal experiences, or if it is because you feel that I am not qualified to know the depths of how God's Love, and if you believe it's somehow limited by the bond only a parent could know.. Then As I have already said in this thread:
People will read what they want to read in my words.. And, subsequently will find any number of reasons to dismiss what I have or will say. I have chosen to not allow my children, or lack of them be apart of that process.. If you take issue with Me or what I have written then let it end there.

Had you been more direct we might have gotten to the heart of my question (unconditional love) much sooner.

I prefer to be very direct as well, but as I have found out many do not share that sentiment. I feel I can adapt if the situation warrants it, so if the indirect semi-philosophical approach doesn't work, then I am always ready to tell you about your [wash my mouth out] if you can stand to hear it.

 

[RedRaven]

Probing would be a better word choice.

If your love was the type of love required for true repentance, then why not repent and go to the Father now? Why not return Home? Why wait till until all proclaim Jesus Christ is Lord?

If I may be frank and with no disrespect to what you believe......I've been home and frankly I didn't like the curtains.

As I understand it, the person who waits doesn't want God, only what He has to offer.. I also see this in Your need to place Your salvation, or Your damnation in God's lap, by questioning his ability to "love" as you define the word.

You have read me wrong. I don't await God. I also have no need to place my salvation or damnation in His lap by questioning his ability to love. My question is more about the level of love, the conditions of said love, and then in turn the follow through. I have no problems saying I was wrong in my interpretation of what that love was. I also have no problem saying that the pastors who have preached it as unconditional love from the pulpit steered me wrong. If that had been my reason for leaving it would be re-evaluated. However, that is not the case.

My children or possible lack of them will never be apart of this or any discussion, this is the reason I did not answer your question.

If you don't want to go there we don't have to.

I prefer to be very direct as well, but as I have found out many do not share that sentiment. I feel I can adapt if the situation warrants it, so if the indirect semi-philosophical approach doesn't work, then I am always ready to tell you about your [wash my mouth out] if you can stand to hear it.

If you feel the need to tell me about my [wash my mouth out] then feel free. Keep in mind I know the Scriptures. I spent 10 years studying and living that life trying to fit myself within it's confines. I didn't walk away because it was too hard. I didn't kick rocks and decide to be a rebelling little child that didn't want to follow the rules. It didn't fit my heart and I threw my whole heart and all of it's ability to love into it.

 

[JesuSlavex]

Sorry I haven’t posted back yet man. I had a killer response all typed up and had a power outage. I lacked the willpower to type it all up again. So let me just respond the general discussion you’ve been having with RedRaven

I know the kind of person that you are. I know your level of dedication to Christianity is absolute. I know that you have studied the Bible with a fevering passion because you genuinely enjoy it and watch its lesson change your life. I used to be JUST like you. I was a minister in my church for 10 years. I have seen amazing manifestations of the Holy Spirit. So when I speak to you now, know that I have been exactly where you’re at in your walk with Jesus.

The traditions of Christianity are a sacred entity of human expression of subservience and loyalty to God through Jesus Christ. This book DOES change people’s lives. I was radically changed, striving to find something that would give me authority over my own life. It was true power. But over time, I began to have issues to see that as it is the main backbone of the faith, it had a few holes on further intent study. And I mean real study, getting out your concordance and checking it right down to the Hebrew and Greek. In doing that, I realized that MY definition of what I read in the original language what the general perceived meaning of very fundamental scriptures didn’t match.

For 3 years I studied in great detail the core beliefs of the Christian faith in this manner, spoke to great men of God from all denominations, dedicated my services to the most influential Christian leaders in my community and abroad, even sought the opinions of staunch bulldog Atheist. And in all that time of speaking to God and depending on the understanding of the word through the Holy Spirit, I found that I had been fooled by men. The book your reading has changed with time and has gone through countless revisions and restructures by men of tremendous political and religious influence who craved power.

My relationship with God never changed. I went to him and spoke with him during the entire struggle as I had gone all thru ought the end of my Christian walk. I approached him of someone who had no idea what to believe. Turns out I was just looking at him the wrong way.

I’m not telling you that your wrong for being a Christian. I think its wonderful that God is in your life. But you also have to determine if you are looking at God in the right way AND determine if what you know of God as a living being and what your being told whether through pulpit or scripture is the truth.

 

[drich0150]

I've been home and frankly I didn't like the curtains.

Neither did I, at my "church."

You have to understand The Church as spoken by Jesus, Paul and John in Revelations is not popular christianity, nor is it a specific religious expression. The Church are all those who Love God more than religion, tradition, and/or a specific doctrine. The Church or The Bride of Christ Has no denominational boundaries or limitations. We are present in many many different congregations that focus on Jesus.

So if you didn't like your old house,(or something in it) turn and return to your Father. No matter where He is, that is the true Home. It takes much more than a cross or a steeple to make a Church. The True Church starts in your Heart. Simply Go before God in prayer and much like the Lost Son in that parable, Before you have a chance to apologize you will feel your Father welcome you Home. After you "repent" Ask Him To give you The Holy Spirit.. It's not something that is going to send you into convulsions (most of the time) The Spirit will allow you the discernment you need to follow in the foot steps of the True Church, even before you decide to find a new congregation.

"Church" or Home isn't somewhere you go in this analogy, It's the condition of your Heart.

Keep in mind I know the Scriptures. I spent 10 years studying and living that life trying to fit myself within it's confines.

Then you already know the True Christianity is not about confines, but about real Freedom! You are free as a Real Christian. Free From the chain of sin and the Law. We are free to Love God with all that we are, And in that love, we will know or find an expanded definition of what we know love to be.

It didn't fit my heart and I threw my whole heart and all of it's ability to love into it.

Sadly this is what happens to well intentioned people who mistakenly love their expression of faith with all of their being Rather than God. They find that their collective expression of faith, or in that their religion, that they have devoted themselves to, can never love them as they have loved what they believe to be God.

This is a mix blessing of sorts, because we don't or can't spend a life time loving this false God, but at the same time we are often hurt by this false god at a very young age. Leaving us Cold and harden to the Real God. What do you think would happen to a child at the age of ten or so years, who poured her self over what she thought to be her Father only to find out that He was not her father, and even more didn't or couldn't love her anywhere near what she loved him??

I found myself here at a very bad time in my life and it nearly crushed me, especially after all that I have given to what i thought to be God. Through much pain and loss
I eventually found The real God, and the True Form of Christianity.. Which is far for pop christianity. If you want to find Him then simply call out to Him with all of your Heart.. If you want to know what this means then ask him to show you. But know His response will be determined by the Hardness of your Heart. My Heart was very Hard and it took much pain to get me to humble myself to the Lord..
You may not require the same amount of attention I did.

Again, none of this has anything to do with Going to a church, and everything to do with your willingness to become the Church.

 

[RedRaven]

You assumed I did all of those things within the confines a church building. You assume that I did not truly come to God with the right kind of heart (or something to that effect). You assumed that over the years as I did this my heart was hard. You assumed a lot. Those things are not true. I have come to God "on my knees" confessed, "repented", called out to Him. Asked that He and His Son come into my heart, and my life, to show me His way. I spent 10 years feeling uncomfortable in my own skin. Not feeling like myself. Even when I walked away my heart wasn't hard. Even now it isn't. I don't doubt your relationship with God. I don't doubt that what you feel is real. I have found my faith. I have found my relationship with Deity. I am now free, and I am now happy. I am now a complete person.

 

[drich0150]

I have found my faith. I have found my relationship with Deity. I am now free, and I am now happy. I am now a complete person.

Then why do you come here with questions? If you are truly complete, what do you seek?

You assumed I did, You assume that I did not, You assumed that, You assumed a lot.

Perhaps it is you who presumes too much. Maybe you should take another look at what I have written. I was simply relaying a story of How I found God despite my belief in my faith. I was trying to share a story triggered by your last comment. after which I included how it was, that I came out of my time in the desert, and since I am talking/typing to you, I directed my words to you. In in short I tried to involved you in my story, I was not trying to tell yours. I am not here to judge you as a person nor what it is you do, or do not do.

All I want to do is maybe help provide you with a direction, but if your not looking for one, and you are content with what you have found outside of Jesus, then I also believe I have assumed too much, and if that is the case I am sorry for waisting your time.