Why does there have to be some big plan?

[FireDragon76]

Comfort is preferable over truth?

Look up William James and read carefully his pragmatic defense of religious belief.

I actually do believe in truth, but the logical positivism upholding the average atheist's worldview is not going to get you there.

 

[juvenissun]

How then does a wolf pack get along? Do the adults just eat the pups as they are born? Easy food, after all.

Some animals do, some animals don't. That is the nature of the animal. It has nothing to do with evolution. They do not eat their pups NOT because they know they SHOULD NOT eat their pups. They just don't.

 

[juvenissun]

Some animals are more social than others.

Getting along in a social environment far outweighs the rate of murders. Some happen because of desperate situations and some happen because of simple mental illness.

That is human interpretation. Animals do not weight (evaluate) their behavior. Social animals don't know that they SHOULD live together. They just do. It is the nature of that particular animal. A lost cow will not try to join a herd of buffalo just because of the advantage of survival.

 

[juvenissun]

Do not resist which is irresistible? Swimming? What are you even talking about?

philosophy of gravity. Is that your idea?
Do you give up you cool and use a little emotion now?

 

[bhsmte]

Everyone has a story about their life, it's just atheists have largely bought into western materialism, which invariably leads to a kind of hedonism. But imagine if you were poor, disabled, disenfranchised, your life didn't have much hope. What is to stop you from committing suicide, or worse, in the name of escaping misery?

Absolute truth claims aside, atheism is just unlivable for most people.

Really? Tell that to the countries with the highest amount of atheists who happen to have quality of life indexes higher than religious countries.

 

[bhsmte]

Some animals do, some animals don't. That is the nature of the animal. It has nothing to do with evolution. They do not eat their pups NOT because they know they SHOULD NOT eat their pups. They just don't.

And why don't they?

 

[bhsmte]

Look up William James and read carefully his pragmatic defense of religious belief.

I actually do believe in truth, but the logical positivism upholding the average atheist's worldview is not going to get you there.

One dudes opinion on religion is supposed to sway people?

 

[juvenissun]

Everyone has a story about their life, it's just atheists have largely bought into western materialism, which invariably leads to a kind of hedonism. But imagine if you were poor, disabled, disenfranchised, your life didn't have much hope. What is to stop you from committing suicide, or worse, in the name of escaping misery?

Absolute truth claims aside, atheism is just unlivable for most people.

Try to find some excitements. There are something every human can do. Suicide is no fun.

 

[juvenissun]

And why don't they?

I don't know. But it is a very interesting question.

You put a gang of wolf to starvation. I guess they won't even think about eating each other. It is opposite to an evolution principle. I don't know why.

 

[KCfromNC]

Everyone has a story about their life, it's just atheists have largely bought into western materialism, which invariably leads to a kind of hedonism.

Ah for the love of Pete... I knew I was doing something wrong in my daily worship of nothingness. More hedonism, here we go!

 

[KCfromNC]

Really? Tell that to the countries with the highest amount of atheists who happen to have quality of life indexes higher than religious countries.

But but but, he's got truth and uh, boo! logical positivism! Scary! Don't let reality get in the way of that.

 

[Davian]

Look up William James and read carefully his pragmatic defense of religious belief.

You'll have to be a lot more specific there.

I actually do believe in truth, but the logical positivism upholding the average atheist's worldview is not going to get you there.

I do not adhere to logical positivism, and I do not know what an "atheist worldview" is.

Again, is comfort is preferable over truth?

 

[Davian]

Some animals do, some animals don't.

That is the nature of the animal. It has nothing to do with evolution. They do not eat their pups NOT because they know they SHOULD NOT eat their pups. They just don't.

How did these animals gain this knowledge?

 

[FireDragon76]

Really? Tell that to the countries with the highest amount of atheists who happen to have quality of life indexes higher than religious countries.

Those countries are riding off of centuries of Christian patrimony, for the most part, and there are still liberal Christian values that underpin much of the public discourse. You are making an argument for liberal Christianity as much as you are for atheism.

You want to see real atheism in action, unfettered by religious values, look at Cambodia or Stalinist Russia. They trained kids to stamp on icons of Christ at the same time they were sending thousands of people to gulags for the crime of thinking differently. It is not a coincidence. Once you turn your back on God, you turn your back on the idea that human beings are created in the image of God as well.

 

[bhsmte]

Those countries are riding off of centuries of Christian patrimony, for the most part, and there are still liberal Christian values that underpin much of the public discourse. You are making an argument for liberal Christianity as much as you are for atheism.

You want to see real atheism in action, unfettered by religious values, look at Cambodia or Stalinist Russia. They trained kids to stamp on icons of Christ at the same time they were sending thousands of people to gulags for the crime of thinking differently. It is not a coincidence. Once you turn your back on God, you turn your back on the idea that human beings are created in the image of God as well.

Wrong. Scandanavia for example probably has more atheists as a percentage, than any advanced countries in the world and growing. Their quality of life indexes are high, even though they are some smallest percentages of Christians.

And what about the countries that have much higher percentages of Christians? Why are there crime rates higher, quality indexes lower? Your argument makes no sense.

 

[FireDragon76]

Wrong. Scandanavia for example probably has more atheists as a percentage, than any advanced countries in the world and growing. Their quality of life indexes are high, even though they are some smallest percentages of Christians.

One can be atheist and still have Christian values and moral intuitions. Look into Russia for a country that actively tried to purge those values and intuitions. The brutality has been seemingly stamped into the national character.

Most atheists in Europe subconsciously cling to Christian values because they have been taught that. They believe people have individual rights "just because".. Those ideas stem from a Christian patrimony. In other cultures those ideas are alien. People go along with the group or a strong man, the individual is subsumed into the collective.

And what about the countries that have much higher percentages of Christians? Why are there crime rates higher, quality indexes lower? Your argument makes no sense.

Are those the only ways to measure human happiness? People in Mexico self-report being happier than people in northern Europe, yet Mexicans are much more religious than Europeans, despite being poorer. Perhaps you should not be judging people by strictly materialistic criteria.

 

[juvenissun]

How did these animals gain this knowledge?

It is not a knowledge.
They received it from God.

 

[Davian]

No. Animal does not have the idea of getting along.

Some animals do, some animals don't. That is the nature of the animal. It has nothing to do with evolution. They do not eat their pups NOT because they know they SHOULD NOT eat their pups. They just don't.

How did these animals gain this knowledge?

It is not a knowledge.
They received it from God.

It is not knowledge, and they receive this knowledge from God? How does this happen? Do they read it in the bible?

And what about parasitic wasps? Does God instruct them on how to deposit their eggs inside of other insects so that their larvae can eat their victim from the inside out?

 

[keith99]

One can be atheist and still have Christian values and moral intuitions. Look into Russia for a country that actively tried to purge those values and intuitions. The brutality has been seemingly stamped into the national character.

Most atheists in Europe subconsciously cling to Christian values because they have been taught that. They believe people have individual rights "just because".. Those ideas stem from a Christian patrimony. In other cultures those ideas are alien. People go along with the group or a strong man, the individual is subsumed into the collective.



Are those the only ways to measure human happiness? People in Mexico self-report being happier than people in northern Europe, yet Mexicans are much more religious than Europeans, despite being poorer. Perhaps you should not be judging people by strictly materialistic criteria.

Source. That is a very specific claim and contradicts what I have seen.

Top 20 Happiest Countries in The World : Discovery News

This is self reporting and Mexico comes in at 16th. Well behind most of Northern Europe.

 

[FireDragon76]

Source. That is a very specific claim and contradicts what I have seen.

Top 20 Happiest Countries in The World : Discovery News

This is self reporting and Mexico comes in at 16th. Well behind most of Northern Europe.

Mexicans both poorer and happier than wealthy nation peers - CSMonitor.com

my point is that happiness is not necessarily related to material prosperity or life expectancy.