light upon light
Baha'i
If people had not packaged up absurd, immoral superstition and said "this is religion", then we would not have masses convinced that religion is absurd, immoral superstition.
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I don't call that salvation, I call that a nightmare.
If people had not packaged up absurd, immoral superstition and said "this is religion", then we would not have masses convinced that religion is absurd, immoral superstition.
If I become a christian I'm not sure how I'd be able to forgive that fact that god has doomed my benevolent compassionate Muslim grandfather to hell for all eternity.
You realize that not all Christians believe this? And it is a definite minority of Christians that believe in the rapture. When Paul talked about Christians meeting Jesus in the air, it was to escort Him back to earth!
Well, Don't be stingy with your knowledge. I want to know more about the christian denominations that don't believe in eternal torment.
You are speaking of the Old Testament from an ancient time when man's consciousness of God was through the lense of a tribal warrior culture. There are also high points, and the Psalms are very beautiful. The Church Fathers included the Old Testament in the canon because they wanted to express the continuity of revelation.
The prevailing message of the New Testament is the grace of God as expressed in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
How do Christians know that God isn't a deceiver? His nature fits the description of tyrant/evil cult leader more so than an omni-benevolent being...
I honestly don't want to be that guy. I don't want to be that guy who turns his back on god because he's been seduced by the devil's candy and doomed to suffer in hell for all eternity.
Well, Don't be stingy with your knowledge. I want to know more about the christian denominations that don't believe in eternal torment.
What do you consider true religion?
It may depend on how you define "eternal torment".
The Eastern Orthodox understanding of Hell, for example, describes it as a state of being while in the midst of God's all-loving, all-merciful presence. That is, in the words of St. Isaac the Syrian, Hell is the "torment" of God's love. The anguish felt is to be in the presence of love, and feel the remorse of having sinned against such love.
Though what you're more likely to find is that many denominations don't make it a point to try and pin down or define what "Hell" is; understanding that Scripture itself is rather ambiguous on that point. Believing there is a "Hell", yes; but understanding that "Hell" is a somewhat nebulous concept.
Of course there are churches and denominations that are pretty specific about Hell. Fundamentalist and American-style Evangelical churches generally are pretty emphatic about what Hell is, even describing it as active divine torture.
Basically this: There really is no, and never has been, a solid consensus on the doctrine of Hell in Christianity. While Christians have put forward creeds and confessions over the centuries to say, "We most certainly believe this", Hell just doesn't get that sort of treatment.
-CryptoLutheran
Basically this: There really is no, and never has been, a solid consensus on the doctrine of Hell in Christianity. While Christians have put forward creeds and confessions over the centuries to say, "We most certainly believe this", Hell just doesn't get that sort of treatment.
-CryptoLutheran
I'd be such a terrible heretic of a Christian were I to ever convert. I'd hold fast to apokatastasis because that makes more sense to me. I'd probably also end up venerating Pelagius as well.
It is more a case of the evolution of humanity's understanding of God and his message of love and grace. You seem to be attributing to God the acts of human beings who believe that they are carrying out God's will for them.
I am not an expert on the gods of Mesopotamia and Sumer, so I do not know what type of trinities were associated to them. I do seem to remember, though, that Hinduism had a trinity consisting of God the Creator, God the Preserver, and God the Destroyer, so I know that trinitarian concepts are not exclusive to Christianity, although I think that the Christian Trinity is unique to itself.
Wait wait wait. You are saying that the OT is not divine and based upon man's own understanding? Seriously? That essentially makes the Bible undivine and worthless.
I beg to differ. I have lost count of the times I was asked (by christians) to make my testimony more gruesome and more titilating. Of course so all the glory could go to God. Apparently "I was a witch, I now follow Jesus Christ' wasnt dramatic enough. It seems that while some christians will never engage in things such as witchcraft, buying or being paid for sex etc that they get some sort of vicarious titilation out of dramatic testimoniesThere is a vast lack of knowledge in the Christian world about what paganism is and what it is not. This is compounded by a few different things. First off, the number of "ex-witches" who come into the Christian sphere and then proceed to make a fortune off of Christian ignorance and fear by embellishing their testimony and sensationalizing their experiences. Since Christians already believe in the spiritual and in supernatural powers, we don't seem to have much trouble believing stories about demonic practices that include cursing your neighbors or sending demons after your rivals.
I beg to differ. I have lost count of the times I was asked (by christians) to make my testimony more gruesome and more titilating. Of course so all the glory could go to God. Apparently "I was a witch, I now follow Jesus Christ' wasnt dramatic enough. It seems that while some christians will never engage in things such as witchcraft, buying or being paid for sex etc that they get some sort of vicarious titilation out of dramatic testimonies
I beg to differ. I have lost count of the times I was asked (by christians) to make my testimony more gruesome and more titilating. Of course so all the glory could go to God. Apparently "I was a witch, I now follow Jesus Christ' wasnt dramatic enough. It seems that while some christians will never engage in things such as witchcraft, buying or being paid for sex etc that they get some sort of vicarious titilation out of dramatic testimonies
You're not the first person to say this, I was asked to do something one but I said "I am not comfortable misrepresenting such a big part of my past". Needless to say the welcome mat at that church was retracted for me pretty quickly lol.
There isn't any need to understand us; scripture says their god doesn't approve of what we do or believe. And if they believe their god is good, then we must be wrong at best, evil at worst.
This sort of sets a double standard since the early church spent it's time killing pagans and professed to have a good god and now they creates lies about pagans and still call their god good. Astonishing really how double standards like these get set
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