Why does Paganism scare Christians?

[smaneck]

When you're taught that your enemies are destined to hell and that such a thing is justifiable, you're ability to look at people as less than human is more easily achievable.

I tend to agree with you. Why would people be more tolerant than their god?

 

[smaneck]

Do some research I have and it is said Gardner had many visits with Crowley, there are alot of Crowley frases and quotes in the book. (Google search)

Actually, they don't even meet until 1947 which is the year Crowley dies. It is true that the first edition of Garner's book contained a lot of phrases from Crowley but these were removed in later editions.

 

[smaneck]

I am a Wathani Pagan and it is considered lost knowledge yet there are vast texts on it by people of that time. One of which is Kitab al-Asnam.

Huh? Isn't the Kitab al-Asman a book denouncing the paganism of the Jahiliyya?

 

[smaneck]

Concerning mental illness and paganism:

I'd council any mentally unstable person to stay away from spiritual paths that involve working with the psyche (i.e. shamanism, the Western Esoteric Tradition, ceremonial magic, paganism, etc.), as these very much require a stable mind.

I would also say the same about Yoga meditation practices, especially kundalini and any other form of tantric.

 

[smaneck]

Im sorry if you find what I wrote about pagans insulting, but I am speaking from personal experience I had with Wicca, the use of magik imo is evil!

So what evil things did you do when you were in Wicca?

Most of it strikes me as harmless nonsense. (Apologies to all you Wiccans.)

 

[dlamberth]

Concerning mental illness and paganism:

I'd council any mentally unstable person to stay away from spiritual paths that involve working with the psyche (i.e. shamanism, the Western Esoteric Tradition, ceremonial magic, paganism, etc.), as these very much require a stable mind.

Very true. I know that in some of those traditions a guide is needed and they are very careful about the mental state of the person they are working with. Also, because of the concern you bring up the teachings are at first given very sparingly and carefully to new students.

.

 

[steve_bakr]

You ar enot speaking from experience. One thing that is apart of Christian doctrine is deceit, I present to you the Bible as exhibit A and I already refuted it a page or two ago. I do not promote genocide, lying, torture, infanticide, slavery(as long as they are captives of war), nor the stoning of people along with rape. You were never a Wiccan because to be honest, Wiccans are the biggest group of fluffy tree huggers I have ever seen. They are as pagan as Billy Graham and as evil as 2 cuddly kittens. Also the "magik" you speak of is not even real. Considering that you have little to no info on paganism and copied it from CARM I cannot take you seriously.

Christian doctrine is evil and promotes immorality although I make exceptions towards many Christians. I used to be a Muslim and to be frank, Islam is exceedingly honest and moral compared to Christianity.

You are speaking of the Old Testament from an ancient time when man's consciousness of God was through the lense of a tribal warrior culture. There are also high points, and the Psalms are very beautiful. The Church Fathers included the Old Testament in the canon because they wanted to express the continuity of revelation.

The prevailing message of the New Testament is the grace of God as expressed in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

 

[awitch]

So what evil things did you do when you were in Wicca?

Most of it strikes me as harmless nonsense. (Apologies to all you Wiccans.)

I'm sure harmless nonsense is exponentially better than evil hell-bound demon possessed Satan worshiper.

 

[Rationalt]

I am smelling wood smoke .

 

[EnemyOfReason]

Huh? Isn't the Kitab al-Asman a book denouncing the paganism of the Jahiliyya?

No, it is by a Muslim but is just summarizes paganism pretty much. The book is actually sort of sympathetic to the pagans to a minor extent. Surprising since it was written by Hisham ibn al-Kalbi

 

[EnemyOfReason]

You are speaking of the Old Testament from an ancient time when man's consciousness of God was through the lense of a tribal warrior culture. There are also high points, and the Psalms are very beautiful. The Church Fathers included the Old Testament in the canon because they wanted to express the continuity of revelation.

The prevailing message of the New Testament is the grace of God as expressed in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

So God is bipolar?

he goes on murderous conquests then begans to speak love, drop his wrath and contradict his monotheism?


I do hope you know that some of the first trinities were in Mesopotamia and Sumer. The OT refutes those deities. Primarily Baal who was a massive trinitarian god.

 

[steve_bakr]

So God is bipolar?

he goes on murderous conquests then begans to speak love, drop his wrath and contradict his monotheism?

I do hope you know that some of the first trinities were in Mesopotamia and Sumer. The OT refutes those deities. Primarily Baal who was a massive trinitarian god.

It is more a case of the evolution of humanity's understanding of God and his message of love and grace. You seem to be attributing to God the acts of human beings who believe that they are carrying out God's will for them.

I am not an expert on the gods of Mesopotamia and Sumer, so I do not know what type of trinities were associated to them. I do seem to remember, though, that Hinduism had a trinity consisting of God the Creator, God the Preserver, and God the Destroyer, so I know that trinitarian concepts are not exclusive to Christianity, although I think that the Christian Trinity is unique to itself.

 

[Greg1234]

You ar enot speaking from experience. One thing that is apart of Christian doctrine is deceit, I present to you the Bible as exhibit A and I already refuted it a page or two ago. I do not promote genocide, lying, torture, infanticide, slavery(as long as they are captives of war), nor the stoning of people along with rape.

If you think that's bad, check out the following links.

Warning

The following links may be disturbing to some readers. Viewer discretion is advised.
​

Exhibit B


Exhibit C
​

 

[dazed]

It is more a case of the evolution of humanity's understanding of God and his message of love and grace. You seem to be attributing to God the acts of human beings who believe that they are carrying out God's will for them.

So, how exactly do you differentiate between attributing to God's and God's actual orders? Is there a cheat sheet for this?

 

[Tenebrae]

True Paganism does not involve magik, witchcraft and paganism are two different things, but for some reason they have been merged. (probably due to the work of Crowley)

......

Crowley was a showman and somewhat of a dingbat. He founded the church of satan which is a very different entity to wicca. Also some witches may be pagans and some pagans may be witches. Not all witches are pagans and not all pagans are witches

 

[Eudaimonist]

Crowley was a showman and somewhat of a dingbat. He founded the church of satan which is a very different entity to wicca.

Are you sure you aren't confusing Aleister Crowley with Anton LaVey?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[elephunky]

Are you sure you aren't confusing Aleister Crowley with Anton LaVey?


eudaimonia,

Mark

yeah I am pretty sure it was Anton LaVey that wrote the Satanic bible.

 

[smaneck]

yeah I am pretty sure it was Anton LaVey that wrote the Satanic bible.

Yes, it is. Anton Lavey claimed to be influenced by Aleister Crowley, but the link between them is rather tenuous.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

And in many ways, LaVey's "Church of Satan" has always been sort of a practical joke, not quite unlike the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" et. al.

Some teenagers in their "misunderstood genius"-phase might actually take it seriously, along with their dark eye makeup, but that's not exactly saying that much.

LaVey's own daughter Zeena turned her back on the CoS (and her con-man father) in 1990, first joining the Temple of Set (a theistic offshoot and "intellectual wing" of the CoS), but eventually founding her own path, the Sethian Liberation movement. It is still a left-hand path spirituality, but one that's heavily influenced by Tibetan Tantric Buddhism.

 

[O mountains]

How do Christians know that God isn't a deceiver? His nature fits the description of tyrant/evil cult leader more so than an omni-benevolent being. Many christians tell me time and time again "Read the bible" Oh trust me I have read it. And you guys are wrong if you think a rational coherent person would be convinced by such "ingenuity".

I honestly don't want to be that guy. I don't want to be that guy who turns his back on god because he's been seduced by the devil's candy and doomed to suffer in hell for all eternity. But, It's beginning to look that way.

If I become a christian I'm not sure how I'd be able to forgive that fact that god has doomed my benevolent compassionate Muslim grandfather to hell for all eternity. That's another thing, You christians say that as we near the tribulation that people will fall dead on the streets in their tracks and that oncoming pedestrians will casually stroll on by without even taking so much as a second glance. So, What about when you guys are finally raptured to heaven to relish in god's self-proclaimed glory. Are you guys just going to dismiss and supress the thought of 9/10 of humanity burning in hell for all eternity (Assuming you guys still do have your "free will") or will you seriously just say "Sorry, Bud nothing we could about it" and go back to eating sugar baked clouds with god? That'd be hypocritical wouldn't it? Or do you guys get a Free pass from morality as well as an all you can eat buffet to sweet atmospheric treats?

I don't call that salvation, I call that a nightmare.