OriginalOatmeal
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I am here to explain that we cannot fully explain why things are the way they are.
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So you have come here to explain what you do not understand?
I am here to explain that we cannot fully explain why things are the way they are.
I'm confused. Are you saying that people never, ever feel socially obligated to thank someone for an action that they did?
Oh see I got confused too! I see now. Yes I would agree
I suppose it's because multiple ongoing ripple-effects are being caused everywhere. That being the case, one might have a greater impact on an individual than another, or perhaps one may arrive earlier to affect an individuals life than another.
This violates so many logical principles I don't really know where to start.
The heartless brutality of nature, and the suffering of almost all the creatures within it (of those who have developed the intelligence to suffer), makes it impossible for me to countenance the existence of a benevolent creator.
This in no way rules out, or even makes less likely, the existence of an ambivalent, disinterested or malevolent creator. Just a good one.
Adam was crowned. Your argument actually supports the consequences and righteous decision God has already made.
I like the idea from this short story and the message that it conveys:
At the end of time, billions of people were scattered on a great plain before God's throne. Most shrank back from the brilliant light before them. But some groups near the front talked heatedly - not with cringing shame, but with belligerence.
"Can God judge us? How can he know about suffering?" Snapped a pert young brunette. He ripped open a sleeve to reveal a tattooed number from a Nazi Concentration Camp. "We endured terror ... beatings ... torture ... death!"
In another group a Negro boy lowered his collar. "What about this?" he demanded, showing an ugly rope burn. "Lynched for no crime but being black!"
In another crowd, a pregnant schoolgirl with sullen eyes. "Why should I suffer?" She murmured. "It wasn't my fault."
Far out across the plain were hundreds of such groups. Each had a complaint against God for the evil and suffering he had permitted in the world. How lucky God was to live in heaven where all was sweetness and light, where there was no weeping or fear, no hunger or hatred. What did God know of all that men had been forced to endure in this world? For God leads a pretty sheltered life, they said.
So each of these groups sent forth their leader, chosen because they had suffered the most. A Jew, a person from Hiroshima, a horribly deformed arthritic, and a thalidomide child.
In the centre of the plain they consulted with each other. At last they were ready to present their case. It was rather clever. Before God could be qualified to be their judge, he must endure what they had endured. Their decision was that God should be sentenced to live on earth - as a man!
Let him be born a Jew. Let the legitimacy of the birth be doubted.
Give him a work so difficult that even his family will think him out of his mind when he tries to do it.
Let him be betrayed by his closest friends.
Let him face false charges, be tried by a prejudiced jury and convicted by a cowardly judge.
Let him be tortured.
At the last, let him see what it means to be terribly alone.
Then let him die, and so that there can be no doubt that he died, let there be a great host of witnesses to verify it.
As each leader announced his portion of the sentence, loud murmurs of approval went up from the throng of people assembled. When the last had finished pronouncing sentence, there was a long silence. Nobody uttered another word. No one moved.
For suddenly all knew that God had already served his sentence.
False dichotomy. Saying these are the only options open to the Christian God is preposterous.
On a related topic, how does this compare to God's treatment of Egypt? How is it okay when God kills children?
That´s not my question. My question would be:
"Why did God - hypothetically assuming for a moment such exists - create a world with (the potential for) evil (i.e. stuff this God doesn´t like), in the first place?"
But he isn´t. If you want the opinion of the person in your scenario you would have to ask that person.
Genocide as an act to preserve/restore the "sanctity of life"? Sounds funny.
So apparently God wanted there to be good and evil. The strange thing, though, is that God is complaining when He gets what He wants.
You know, I have no problem accepting that the universe works the way it does. It´s not until I´m told that it´s the intended product of an omnibenevolent CreatorGod that I start asking "Why?".
It´s the prime example for my main issue with religion/theology: At best, it answers questions that wouldn´t be there without it, in the first place (and most of the time it does not even manage to do that).
Another point: You can, practically, have sound without silence (you just can´t have a concept of sound without having a concept of silence). Actually, we never encounter and have never encountered complete silence.
Lastly: Had God created the world without the possibility of the most extreme cases of "evil", concepts of "good/evil" would still be possible.
One would expect an omnipotent omniscient God to have other means of intervention than genocide to his disposal, and one would expect an omnibenevolent God to make use of them (instead of applying methods which he minself has decided to be "objectively evil").
Allegedly, God was capable of "hardening Pharao´s heart". It would have to be explained why "softening people´s hearts" is apparently not within his capabilities as a means of crisis management.
What do I expect? Well according to the bible we are all gods children,
it is the christian god who created evil, and it is this same capricious malevolent god who uses his followers to advocate this disgusting evil world concept.
Really??? You cant tell me that every single person who was slaughtered by Moses, Saul, & Joshua, were guilty of the crimes you are mentioning. Even the infant babies? Cmon! You know better than that. Didnt Jesus say let he who is without sin cast the first stone? How many Israelites do you think were without sin? There is no justification for what those men did. IMO this is just another example of evil men committing evil acts and claiming they are doing the work of God. It happened back then and it continues to happen today.
K
So what is this God for, if not to stop evil?
Did you not like my previous responses to this subject?I think the question you should be asking us, is why, in a godless universe, would there be an awareness of an objective realm of moral values and duties?
Can you provide us with a cogent answer to this question?
Why in a godless universe are things like genocide objectively evil?
This is a common misconception. No where in the bible does it say that we are all God's children.
The Bible said:22 So Paul, standing in the midst of the Areopagus, said: Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious. 23 For as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, To the unknown god. What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. 24 The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, 25 nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. 26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, 27 that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, 28 for
In him we live and move and have our being;
as even some of your own poets have said,
For we are indeed his offspring.
29 Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. 30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.
Maybe not from the mouth of your God, but the words ARE there.
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