Why does God not stop the evil?

[Cush]

That you are making this up as you go along.

So the rapist, if they are repentant, has nothing to fear from God?

If they are truly repentant then I would not consider them a rapists. However, only God can forgive us our sins, it not I that they sin against, but God.

However, the consequences imposed, that is, restitution to society or the victim may be something else.

I believe wholeheardtedly in God, and I fear Him. Although I love Him, but the thought of standing before an eternal creator, having the floor fan open beneath my feet, and seeing all of creation terrifies me. But I'm certain others fear the president moreso than God, will Obama like what I'm wearing, will he like me, what will he know after my background checks... ect.

Anyhoot...

"That you are making this up as you go along."

I suggest that you read Scripture, and not rely on what I say so much then. If you prefer I can always include chapter and verse whenever speaking to you, as I recall Scripture when voicing my own thoughts and reasoning.

Take care,
Cush

 

[Davian]

If they are truly repentant that I would not consider them a rapists.

However, the consequences imposed, that is, restitution to society or the victim may be something else.

So, God is okay with rapists, and so are you, if they are repentant.

What about their young victims? Do you think they would agree? What of those that may have lost their faith in the course of the actions of these rapists?

They do not go to heaven, right?

I believe wholeheardtedly in God, and I fear Him. Although I love Him, but the thought of standing before an eternal creator, having the floor fan open beneath my feet, and seeing all of creation terrifies me. But I'm certain others fear the president moreso than God, will Obama like what I'm wearing, will he like me, what will he know after my background checks... ect.

Anyhoot...

"That you are making this up as you go along."

I suggest that you read Scripture, and not rely on what I say so much then. If you prefer I can always include chapter and verse whenever speaking to you, as I recall Scripture when voicing my own thoughts and reasoning.

Take care,
Cush

It is interesting to see how someone can reason that rapists go to heaven, but their victims do not.

 

[Cush]

So, God is okay with rapists, and so are you, if they are repentant.

What about their young victims? Do you think they would agree? What of those that may have lost their faith in the course of the actions of these rapists?

They do not go to heaven, right?

It is interesting to see how someone can reason that rapists go to heaven, but their victims do not.

You are putting quite a bit in my mouth. God is the final arbitrator over a man's destiny. The type of questioning you're asking of me, asks me to go against Jesus' teaching.

I never said God is ok with rapists, however, what do you suppose repentant is? Am I a dope addict because I had an addiction problem a decade ago, but since have not used drugs or would not use them in the future because of the firm moral convictions that are attributed to God?

What about the young victims, are you asking if there is a difference between atonement with our fellow man vs. God? What do you think?

I never said that rape victims do not go to heaven... but maybe they were not fearing the consequences of a worthless stature in society. I dunno, maybe they weren't wearing their head covering, or maybe they were in the wrong part of town amongst unbelievers. All j/king aside...

What about those who have lost faith by your circular reasoning, hypotheticals, or in depth questioning, by comparison of others who have unquestioning faith, that is, during your seeking process?

The question, why does God not prevent evil from happening is actually answered easily, to me, the answer is in the story of Lazarus.

 

[32k]

The question, why does God not prevent evil from happening is actually answered easily, to me, the answer is in the story of Lazarus.

So that God may be glorified?

 

[Illuminaughty]

These types of questions, surprisingly are raised by many atheists.

Not surprising at all that they might try to explain why some of the claims made by theists are less than logical. One might get away with positing the existence of an all powerful God OR an omni-benevolent God but implying the existence of a being who combines both those traits simply doesn't make sense given what we see here on earth.

But I find it ironic that the few instance in which we see God acting to stop and to prevent such heinous acts in the Bible, these same objectors claim that God was wrong in in stopping these people!

One would think an all knowing, all powerful, God could come up with a way to stop evil that didn't involve the actual infliction of pain , suffering, and death. Like maybe put a magic globe of invulnerability around the person who was about to be murdered. He could even put a subliminal suggestion into the mind of the person about to rape someone that they left their stove on at home thereby causing them to feel an irresistible urge to go back and shut it off rather than rape the person in question. Heck he could even reprogram the mind of the rapist so they no longer enjoy raping and killing.

Couldn't an all powerful being come up with an effective and peaceful way to reform people ?

On one hand, God is blamed for tolerating evil, and on the other hand when He is shown to act in judgment on people who commit such atrocities, He is branded as being a murderer and genocidal!

Those aren't the only two options. He could genetically (or magically... he is a god after all) program people in such a manner that they are not attracted by the idea of hurting others in the first place. A little divine genetic engineering. Create a species of beings who are so filled with compassion and altruism that the idea of hurting someone else never enters their mind in the first place.

If there were known to us today, to be civilizations and societies in existence that behaved the way the Canaanites, Amorites and Amalekites, did in making it a regular practice to offer their newborn babies and young children on fiery pagan altars to gods, atheists would be among the many to cry out: "If God exists, then why does He not stop these atrocities!

I believe it was the Israelites who stopped them and not God. It appears that they also killed the children too so they were really not that much better than the Amalekites.

A God would have been able to use his divine powers to come to a more peaceful and less painful solution. He could manifest as a pillar of fire and speak directly to them saying "stop the child sacrifice." He could even reprogram their brains so that they would find the idea so revolting they would never again indulge in it. The fact that the Israelites had to do it for him (especially in such a brutal manner) makes me think he might not exist in the first place.

 

[Davian]

You are putting quite a bit in my mouth.

I realize that, but you were giving long answers that did not address the questions at hand.

Which you did again in this post.

God is the final arbitrator over a man's destiny. The type of questioning you're asking of me, asks me to go against Jesus' teaching.

I never said God is ok with rapists,

Tell me, if they are repentant, what do they have to fear?

however, what do you suppose repentant is? Am I a dope addict because I had an addiction problem a decade ago, but since have not used drugs or would not use them in the future because of the firm moral convictions that are attributed to God?

Many things are attributed to God.

What about the young victims, are you asking if there is a difference between atonement with our fellow man vs. God? What do you think?

We are only talking about your opinions of your god.

I never said that rape victims do not go to heaven... but maybe they were not fearing the consequences of a worthless stature in society. I dunno, maybe they weren't wearing their head covering, or maybe they were in the wrong part of town amongst unbelievers. All j/king aside...

So it was the victims' fault in some way. Cool.

But we were specifically taking about rapists that are believers in Christianity.

What about those who have lost faith by your circular reasoning, hypotheticals, or in depth questioning, by comparison of others who have unquestioning faith, that is, during your seeking process?

I know of no such individuals. Are you not here of your own volition?

The question, why does God not prevent evil from happening is actually answered easily, to me, the answer is in the story of Lazarus.

Which brings us back to the original question that you responded to but did not yet answer:

How would one tell the difference between god that does not stop a certain act (such as child rape) and a god that does not exist?

 

[Ken-1122]

There is one common question which is often posed as an objection to God's omnibenevolence and that is the question: "why does God not prevent or stop the evil in the world?"

"Why does God not stop all the child molestors and rapists and murderers, why does God not stop this or prevent that or do this or that...."

These types of questions, surprisingly are raised by many atheists. But I find it ironic that the few instance in which we see God acting to stop and to prevent such heinous acts in the Bible, these same objectors claim that God was wrong in in stopping these people!

On one hand, God is blamed for tolerating evil, and on the other hand when He is shown to act in judgment on people who commit such atrocities, He is branded as being a murderer and genocidal!

If there were known to us today, to be civilizations and societies in existence that behaved the way the Canaanites, Amorites and Amalekites, did in making it a regular practice to offer their newborn babies and young children on fiery pagan altars to gods, atheists would be among the many to cry out: "If God exists, then why does He not stop these atrocities!"

Yet, in cases where it is clear that this was happening, when God does act, He is judged as being a genocidal murderer!

Really??? You can’t tell me that every single person who was slaughtered by Moses, Saul, & Joshua, were guilty of the crimes you are mentioning. Even the infant babies? C’mon! You know better than that. Didn’t Jesus say “let he who is without sin cast the first stone?” How many Israelites do you think were without sin? There is no justification for what those men did. IMO this is just another example of evil men committing evil acts and claiming they are doing the work of God. It happened back then and it continues to happen today.

K

 

[Illuminaughty]

If there were a heaven I would have no problem whatsoever with even the worst people going there. I wouldn't even begruge the rapist a pleasant afterlife. So on that issue I really don't have anything against Christians letting bad people into their heaven.

Desire for revenge is a bestial way of thinking and I try to avoid it. Unfortunately this world has so much suffering and so much ill motivated garbage going on that it churns out wounded people like rapists and murders on a regular basis. They have already had their fair share of suffering here on earth and an everlasting hell would simply be piling on. If you wish suffering on them you are afflicted with the same disease that caused them to commit their crimes. Only good and compassion can put an end to evil not more evil.

 

[32k]

Ditto with the above

Didn’t Jesus say “let he who is without sin cast the first stone?”

FWIW that passage in John 8 is omitted in the oldest manuscripts.

 

[Davian]

If there were a heaven I would have no problem whatsoever with even the worst people going there. I wouldn't even begruge the rapist a pleasant afterlife. So on that issue I really don't have anything against Christians letting bad people into their heaven.

Desire for revenge is a bestial way of thinking and I try to avoid it. Unfortunately this world has so much suffering and so much ill motivated garbage going on that it churns out wounded people like rapists and murders on a regular basis. They have already had their fair share of suffering here on earth and an everlasting hell would simply be piling on. If you wish suffering on them you are afflicted with the same disease that caused them to commit their crimes. Only good and compassion can put an end to evil not more evil.

I can agree with that. What comes to my mind with threads like this one is this quote:

"There's no reason, in theory, why god's presence couldn't be measured or detected in some way. The only reason that believers claim that god "can't" be detected in this way is because god *isn't* detected, and so a vast and intricate rationale has to be devised to explain this vast, loving, eternal, all-powerful "something" which is, in every external, objective respect, indistinguishable from nothing." -- NMS

All I am doing is exploring this "vast and intricate rationale" that we refer to here as "religion".

 

[Gottservant]

God does not stop the evil in the world, BECAUSE HE STILL ASSUMES YOU ARE INNOCENT

 

[Cush]

God does not stop the evil in the world, BECAUSE HE STILL ASSUMES YOU ARE INNOCENT

Hello gottservant,

God is omniscient therefore little room exists for assumptions. Correct?

I still say there is a greater purpose for allowing evil to exists, whether natural or human. In the case of Lazarus from the perspective of Mary and Martha, they could of questioned Jesus, doubted, or lost faith. Why God do you allow evil to occur and do not intervene on my behalf for my benefit in my timing? I dunno, still trying to figure out why this sounds so selfishly wrong considering the infinite possibilities, regarding the choices of another to either accept or reject God.

Call me simple, I don't see a problem of evil. I am, however, beginning to see a problem of good. With the lack of submission from all the worldly unbelievers and the devil, I wonder why or how any goodness can come through into the "World?"

But then again, why criticize the world for acting as the world?

 

[Gadarene]

There is one common question which is often posed as an objection to God's omnibenevolence and that is the question: "why does God not prevent or stop the evil in the world?"

"Why does God not stop all the child molestors and rapists and murderers, why does God not stop this or prevent that or do this or that...."

These types of questions, surprisingly are raised by many atheists. But I find it ironic that the few instance in which we see God acting to stop and to prevent such heinous acts in the Bible, these same objectors claim that God was wrong in in stopping these people!

On one hand, God is blamed for tolerating evil, and on the other hand when He is shown to act in judgment on people who commit such atrocities, He is branded as being a murderer and genocidal!

If there were known to us today, to be civilizations and societies in existence that behaved the way the Canaanites, Amorites and Amalekites, did in making it a regular practice to offer their newborn babies and young children on fiery pagan altars to gods, atheists would be among the many to cry out: "If God exists, then why does He not stop these atrocities!"

Yet, in cases where it is clear that this was happening, when God does act, He is judged as being a genocidal murderer!

It seems to me that the qualm with God is not that He does not act to judge sin, but that He indeed does exist and holds us morally accountable for our sins. It is evidently clear, that in some people's eyes (those who lack belief in God) that whatever God does, He fails to meet their moral standards. Which is ironic, for if there is no objective moral standard, then all we have is opinions, none being any closer to the non-existent standard than any other. And the opinion that God was somehow wrong in ordering the children to be killed is no closer to adhering to this non-existent moral standard than the opinion that God, since He is the author and giver of life, was justified in taking that life.

So what is the objection?

There seems to be a problem here in grasping the fact that letting evil go unpunished in one life is a problem while a completely disproportionate response to a finite wrong is actually a separate problem. You can stop wrongdoers without lighting them on fire forever.

And I find it rather worrying that an apparently sane human being can't work this out.

 

[Cush]

There seems to be a problem here in grasping the fact that letting evil go unpunished in one life is a problem while a completely disproportionate response to a finite wrong is actually a separate problem. You can stop wrongdoers without lighting them on fire forever.

And I find it rather worrying that an apparently sane human being can't work this out.

You can stop wrongdoers without lighting them on fire forever.

Curious, how much damage do you suppose a wrongdoer can accomplish if allowed eternity?

 

[Gadarene]

Curious, how much damage do you suppose a wrongdoer can accomplish if allowed eternity?

Oh come on now.

We can manage to punish and reform in our society without prescribing eternal torture. Your deity can't even manage the same?

 

[Davian]

Hello gottservant,

God is omniscient therefore little room exists for assumptions. Correct?

I still say there is a greater purpose for allowing evil to exists, whether natural or human. In the case of Lazarus from the perspective of Mary and Martha, they could of questioned Jesus, doubted, or lost faith. Why God do you allow evil to occur and do not intervene on my behalf for my benefit in my timing? I dunno, still trying to figure out why this sounds so selfishly wrong considering the infinite possibilities, regarding the choices of another to either accept or reject God.

Call me simple, I don't see a problem of evil. I am, however, beginning to see a problem of good. With the lack of submission from all the worldly unbelievers and the devil, I wonder why or how any goodness can come through into the "World?"

But then again, why criticize the world for acting as the world?

I don't.

I am criticizing the unsubstantiated assertions of those claiming that a god is involved in anything that happens in this world.

 

[Cush]

Oh come on now.

We can manage to punish and reform in our society without prescribing eternal torture. Your deity can't even manage the same?

Actually, society is incapable of prescribing eternal torture. Nobody is the final arbitrator over a man's destiny but God. And there is no one better qualified to make a judgment call -- omniscient qualifies God as being the only capable Judge completely knowing of all facts in every given case.

Now why can't society manage the same? Reform? A perfect being such as God has no need to reform, all His ways are perfect.

Shout Glory

 

[Cush]

I don't.

I am criticizing the unsubstantiated assertions of those claiming that a god is involved in anything that happens in this world.

I realize what you are doing. You are also attempting to shift the burden of proof in your argument away from yourself onto others.

 

[Davian]

I realize what you are doing. You are also attempting to shift the burden of proof in your argument away from yourself onto others.

lol. The burden of proof is always on the one making the claims. That would be you.

 

[Carmella Prochaska]

Reminds me of a comic strip I saw once, where a man was reading the newspaper & saying "Why doesn't God stop the murders in schools?" & a lady replied, "Didn't you know? God isn't allowed in schools anymore."