Why does God not respond if I say, "Hi God"?

[Joshua260]

Does God ever manifest himself in reality?

Yes, I believe he has manifested himself as the father, son, and holy spirit. If I listed those times, you would simply deny them.

Have you ever observed God doing anything quantifiable?

Yes, I believe I have observed him doing quantifiable things in my life. If I listed them, you would simply deny that those things were done by God.

I believe the best evidence for atheists to address when questioning the existence of God is the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ. That is the quantifiable evidence that God has specifically provided for atheists.

 

[Akureyri]

Yes, I believe he has manifested himself as the father, son, and holy spirit. If I listed those times, you would simply deny them.

Please list the manifestations of God in reality which you have observed. I may not deny them.

Yes, I believe I have observed him doing quantifiable things in my life. If I listed them, you would simply deny that those things were done by God.

What real thing is it you are calling "God"?

I believe the best evidence for atheists to address when questioning the existence of God is the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ. That is the quantifiable evidence that God has specifically provided for atheists.

Given the billions of people who don't believe in the God of the Bible, it seems God failed miserably by using the resurrection of Jesus as quantifiable evidence. Why doesn't he do something else which would be quantifiable evidence to the billions of non-Christians?

 

[ladyches]

If he is real, then I'd ask him. Do you not realize how preposterously stupid it would be for someone who wants me to believe he exists to do absolutely nothing to get me to believe he exists - especially when he's capable of doing anything?

You exist, creation exists. That's proof enough that God exists. Read Genesis 1-3. Why should he show you any more when you don't believe what he has already shown you?

Actions speak louder than words. If God is real, can do anything and knows everything, it would follow that since he doesn't show to me that he's real, that he is disinterested in whether or not I believe he exists. Sounds like an apathetic god to me.

I might say the same thing to you. Your actions reveal that you're not really seeking God. The Bible says it is impossible to please God without faith. To know God, we have to first believe that he exists. God is not apathetic - you are. You will more likely hear from him if you cultivate an open mind rather than a closed one.

 

[Joshua260]

Please list the manifestations of God in reality which you have observed. I may not deny them.

No, thanks.

What real thing is it you are calling "God"?

Please define "real".

Given the billions of people who don't believe in the God of the Bible, it seems God failed miserably by using the resurrection of Jesus as quantifiable evidence. Why doesn't he do something else which would be quantifiable evidence to the billions of non-Christians?

I think your reasoning here is a non sequitur. The bible says that some would NOT believe, even if one DID rise from the dead.

I would anticipate that you would then question whether someone would deny the obvious. Christian and secular psychologists alike will tell you that people will purposefully delude themselves into believing something they want to be true, or NOT believing in something they do NOT want to be true.

 

[Akureyri]

You exist, creation exists. That's proof enough that God exists. Read Genesis 1-3. Why should he show you any more when you don't believe what he has already shown you?

What real thing is it you are calling God? Perhaps "God" is merely a metaphor for something which I already believe to exist. In another thread, someone said that 'God' is existence. Since I believe existence to be real, then I am not an atheist with respect to his/her god.

I might say the same thing to you. Your actions reveal that you're not really seeking God.

I am indeed interested in demonstrations of God's knowledge and power - if he indeed is real. See http://www.christianforums.com/t7778732/

But the point I made is if God can do anything, knows everything and wants me to believe he exists, then he obviously doesn't want me to believe very much. At least not enough to do what it takes to get me to believe.
OR
God can't do anything or possibly doesn't really know everything.

The Bible says it is impossible to please God without faith.

What do you mean by 'God' and 'faith'?

To know God, we have to first believe that he exists.

Why should I believe a god exists if the world appears as if no god exists?

God is not apathetic - you are.

The god which most Christians describe is apathetic. Obviously indifferent as to whether or not I believe it/she/he exists.

You will more likely hear from him if you cultivate an open mind rather than a closed one.

I'd bet anything my mind is far more open than yours.

 

[Akureyri]

No, thanks.

I asked, "Please list the manifestations of God in reality which you have observed. I may not deny them."

Your response strongly suggests that you have not observed any manifestations of God in reality.

OR

You are afraid that anything other than a "No, thanks" response will hurt your position.

What real thing is it you are calling "God"?

Please define "real".

re·al1 [ree-uhl, reel] Show IPA
adjective
1.
true; not merely ostensible, nominal, or apparent: the real reason for an act.
2.
existing or occurring as fact; actual rather than imaginary, ideal, or fictitious: a story taken from real life.
3.
being an actual thing; having objective existence; not imaginary: The events you will see in the film are real and not just made up.
4.
being actually such; not merely so-called: a real victory.
5.
genuine; not counterfeit, artificial, or imitation; authentic: a real antique; a real diamond; real silk.

Now tell me what real thing is it you are calling "God"?

I think your reasoning here is a non sequitur. The bible says that some would NOT believe, even if one DID rise from the dead.

Why would God want some people to not believe he exists?

I would anticipate that you would then question whether someone would deny the obvious. Christian and secular psychologists alike will tell you that people will purposefully delude themselves into believing something they want to be true, or NOT believing in something they do NOT want to be true.

How do you know that you have not purposefully deluded yourself into believing a god exists?

 

[Joshua260]

I asked, "Please list the manifestations of God in reality which you have observed. I may not deny them."

Your response strongly suggests that you have not observed any manifestations of God in reality.

OR

You are afraid that anything other than a "No, thanks" response will hurt your position.

I think you're making a leap in logic here. I stated at the very beginning that my belief was that if I listed them, you would simply deny them. If you were an honest seeker or a fellow Christian, I might share some of my experiences with you. However, your posts so far have suggested that you are a determined atheist who's purpose on these forums seems to be to convert others to your point of view. Therefore, I believe that an exchange with you at this time concerning this issue would not be fruitful.

re·al1 [ree-uhl, reel] Show IPA
adjective
1.
true; not merely ostensible, nominal, or apparent: the real reason for an act.
2.
existing or occurring as fact; actual rather than imaginary, ideal, or fictitious: a story taken from real life.
3.
being an actual thing; having objective existence; not imaginary: The events you will see in the film are real and not just made up.
4.
being actually such; not merely so-called: a real victory.
5.
genuine; not counterfeit, artificial, or imitation; authentic: a real antique; a real diamond; real silk.

Now tell me what real thing is it you are calling "God"?

I think the best definition of real that applies to God is the following choice:
2.
existing or occurring as fact; actual rather than imaginary, ideal, or fictitious: a story taken from real life.

So, my god is the god described in the bible. If you read it, you should get a pretty good idea of who (he's not a thing) I call god.

Why would God want some people to not believe he exists?

Did I say that?

How do you know that you have not purposefully deluded yourself into believing a god exists?

I don't know.

But this exchange is worth a little more response.

As I understand how a "delusion" works, I think it's possible that I could be deluding myself. Christians occasionally have doubts (hmmm....that makes me wonder whether atheists ever have doubts...I hardly ever hear them admit that). However, then I start thinking about all the historical evidence that supports that the Resurrection really happened, and then all of the fulfilled prophecies, end then all of the personal experiences I've had, etc...and then I ALSO think about how some things about atheism don't seem to make sense like life from non-life for no reason, the existence of the universe not having an explanation for it's existence, the lack of evidence for macro-evolution, etc...it seems to me that, logically, the existence of God is more probable than not. And then sometimes I also think about Pascal's argument that given that it is equally reasonable to believe that God exists or not, it is better to believe that he exists and be wrong than not to believe he exists and be wrong. See, I was a skeptic for most of my life and came to Christianity with a "show me" attitude. You could do the same thing yourself, but I think the difference between you and I is that I decided to discard all of my prejudices and simply "follow the evidence", so to speak. I think you may have a hard time duplicating my experience there because I think you refuse to allow for the possibility that God could really exist. If you started down my path with that bias, you wouldn't get too far...in fact, not past Genesis 1:1.

So, now that I've given you an honest answer, would you care to respond also?

How do you know that you have not purposefully deluded yourself into believing that the god of the bible does NOT exist?

 

[Rawtheran]

On many occasions, I have said, "Hi God" or have attempted to communicate with him in a similar manner. Never have I heard or received any response. Why would a loving god not respond?

God is most certainly hearing you on his throne, but he responds in his time not yours. He also answers your prayers in ways that you would least expect him too. Don't worry God will always love you, but keep heart, and always remember that he will answer you in his own way have faith.

 

[elliott95]

...

 

[Scott1979]

Faith is believing in something that we don't know is 100% true. Is there 100%hard core fact that God exists? No. Each person, if they so choose, has to open there heart and mind to the fact that a higher power might exist. People who believe in God believe that God will reward there faith in Him. He has promised an eternal life in Heaven for those who believe. You have to decide to open your heart and mind. I don't think you will find your concrete evidence you are looking for. The responses you are getting are concrete evidence in there mind because they believe without a doubt that God does exist. There is going to come a time when you will have to ask yourself if you want to open yourself up to the idea that a higher power may exist.

 

[Akureyri]

I asked, "Please list the manifestations of God in reality which you have observed. I may not deny them."

Your response strongly suggests that you have not observed any manifestations of God in reality.

OR

You are afraid that anything other than a "No, thanks" response will hurt your position.

I think you're making a leap in logic here. I stated at the very beginning that my belief was that if I listed them, you would simply deny them. If you were an honest seeker or a fellow Christian, I might share some of my experiences with you. However, your posts so far have suggested that you are a determined atheist who's purpose on these forums seems to be to convert others to your point of view. Therefore, I believe that an exchange with you at this time concerning this issue would not be fruitful.

And your failure to share the manifestations of God in reality which you've observed suggests with over 99% certainty that you have never observed such manifestations.

I'm well over 90% convinced that nothing I say in here will deconvert anyone. So my primary objective is to get a better understanding of why Christians believe what they believe and why they claim to know things they don't really know.

re·al1 [ree-uhl, reel] Show IPA
adjective
1.
true; not merely ostensible, nominal, or apparent: the real reason for an act.
2.
existing or occurring as fact; actual rather than imaginary, ideal, or fictitious: a story taken from real life.
3.
being an actual thing; having objective existence; not imaginary: The events you will see in the film are real and not just made up.
4.
being actually such; not merely so-called: a real victory.
5.
genuine; not counterfeit, artificial, or imitation; authentic: a real antique; a real diamond; real silk.

Now tell me what real thing is it you are calling "God"?

I think the best definition of real that applies to God is the following choice:
2.
existing or occurring as fact; actual rather than imaginary, ideal, or fictitious: a story taken from real life.

So, my god is the god described in the bible. If you read it, you should get a pretty good idea of who (he's not a thing) I call god.

Since there is no evidence showing that a god exists or occurred as fact and/or is actual rather than imaginary, then the definition of real which you chose depicts God as not manifesting itself in reality.

The god which is described in the Bible does not manifest itself in reality. Even if the miracles which are mentioned in the Bible did occur, that does nothing to say that any god or gods currently exist. Perhaps you could share with me what was the last time your god (or any god) manifested itself in reality in such a way that it was documented and verified as being a god.

Why would God want some people to not believe he exists?

Did I say that?

I don't think so. But if God knows everything and can do anything, then it would follow that he/she/it doesn't care if I believe he/she/it exists. Why would he/she/it not care if I believe if he/she/it exists?

How do you know that you have not purposefully deluded yourself into believing a god exists?

I don't know.

So you agree it's possible that you have been deluded into believing a god is real and if so, you wouldn't even know you've been deluded. I can make sense of that, as if I have been brainwashed by some kind of fundamentalist group into thinking their beliefs are real, I wouldn't even know I had been brainwashed.

But this exchange is worth a little more response.

As I understand how a "delusion" works, I think it's possible that I could be deluding myself. Christians occasionally have doubts (hmmm....that makes me wonder whether atheists ever have doubts...I hardly ever hear them admit that).

There are strong atheists (gnostic or knows that a god or gods don't exist) and weak atheists (agnostic or does not know that a god or gods don't exist). With respect to a god that is logically possible, I am an agnostic atheist. But with respect to a god that is not logically possible (such as one that can do anything and loves everyone), I am a gnostic atheist (meaning I know for sure that such god does NOT exist).

However, then I start thinking about all the historical evidence that supports that the Resurrection really happened, and then all of the fulfilled prophecies, end then all of the personal experiences I've had, etc...and then I ALSO think about how some things about atheism don't seem to make sense like life from non-life for no reason, the existence of the universe not having an explanation for it's existence, the lack of evidence for macro-evolution, etc...it seems to me that, logically, the existence of God is more probable than not.

Go to your local bookstore and take note of what one of the largest sections is. You'll see it is the fiction section. What does that tell you? That humans love to make up stories. What evidence do you have that the resurrection and the fulfilled prophecies weren't just made up stories? And in what book were the prophecies made and in what book were they fulfilled?

And then sometimes I also think about Pascal's argument that given that it is equally reasonable to believe that God exists or not, it is better to believe that he exists and be wrong than not to believe he exists and be wrong.

Pascal's Wager is flawed for several reasons. Among them:
- If God exists and knows everything, he would know your belief is disingenuous or rather an insurance policy.
- You're not covering your bases with respect to other gods. What if believers suffer in hell for eternity and non-believers go to a glorious eternal place. Does your wager cover yourself for that possibility?

See, I was a skeptic for most of my life and came to Christianity with a "show me" attitude. You could do the same thing yourself, but I think the difference between you and I is that I decided to discard all of my prejudices and simply "follow the evidence", so to speak.

The evidence that you've followed to believe a god exists is insufficient to support the existence of a god. Your standards of evidence are very poor, which is what is causing you to believe things which are likely not true.

I think you may have a hard time duplicating my experience there because I think you refuse to allow for the possibility that God could really exist. If you started down my path with that bias, you wouldn't get too far...in fact, not past Genesis 1:1.

It depends what kind of god you're talking about. If you're talking about a god which is logically possible, then I can't know for sure that it doesn't exist. But if you're talking about a god which is logically impossible, then the issue isn't whether or not I allow for the possibility of it existing. The issue is that I am incapable of allowing for the possibility of something which can't exist to exist.

So, now that I've given you an honest answer, would you care to respond also?

How do you know that you have not purposefully deluded yourself into believing that the god of the bible does NOT exist?

The position I take isn't a position of belief. I merely don't hold the position that your god exists.

So your question makes no sense. It would be like me asking you how you can know that you have not purposefully deluded yourself into believing that there are not 50,000 fire breathing dragons roaming the streets of Chicago right now.

 

[moerunamida]

Why do you need convincing that our God exists? We believe by faith, not by sight or sound in this case.

 

[Joshua260]

And your failure to share the manifestations of God in reality which you've observed suggests with over 99% certainty that you have never observed such manifestations.

I've already explained enough about this, and your continued taunting about this part of the exchange is not looking too sophisticated.

Since there is no evidence showing that a god exists or occurred as fact and/or is actual rather than imaginary, then the definition of real which you chose depicts God as not manifesting itself in reality.

Simply saying that there's no evidence doesn't make it so. You're certainly free to ignore the evidence if you want. That is your free will option.

The god which is described in the Bible does not manifest itself in reality.

..."does not..."??!! That's quite an assertion. Can you prove that?

I don't think so. But if God knows everything and can do anything, then it would follow that he/she/it doesn't care if I believe he/she/it exists. Why would he/she/it not care if I believe if he/she/it exists?

I think you got mixed up about what this part of the exchange was about. I believe what I was explaining is that people choose not to believe in him. YOU'RE the one who then started asking about God's intentions.

So you agree it's possible that you have been deluded into believing a god is real and if so, you wouldn't even know you've been deluded...

Yes, I admitted that. But when I asked you, your response was "The position I take isn't a position of belief. I merely don't hold the position that your god exists. "...but my point was how do you know that you're not deluding yourself into a lack of belief (ok, we can word it that way if you like) without knowing it?

I remember you criticizing me for saying that I never say "I don't know", which you have since learned that I DO admit that when appropriate. I find it fascinating that you are NOT willing to admit that you could be deluding yourself instead. Christians believe that we are all given a knowledge of God, and that some people purposefully delude themselves into either believing that God does not exist or believing that we have a lack of belief in God, because of various reasons. The Christian viewpoint is reflected in the following verse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.Romans 1:21

So, again, is it even remotely possible that YOU could be deluding yourself into either believing that God doesn't exist, or that you have a "lack of belief" that God exist?

Go to your local bookstore and take note of what one of the largest sections is. You'll see it is the fiction section. What does that tell you? That humans love to make up stories.

That doesn't prove anything one way or the other.

What evidence do you have that the resurrection and the fulfilled prophecies weren't just made up stories? And in what book were the prophecies made and in what book were they fulfilled?

There are several historical sources, even non-Christian, that provide multiple attestations that Jesus was crucified, the apostles believed that they had seen the risen Christ and were willing to die for that testimony, about the conversion of the skeptic James, the conversion of Paul, and also that the tomb was empty.

Pascal's Wager is flawed for several reasons. Among them:
- If God exists and knows everything, he would know your belief is disingenuous or rather an insurance policy.
- You're not covering your bases with respect to other gods. What if believers suffer in hell for eternity and non-believers go to a glorious eternal place. Does your wager cover yourself for that possibility?

I am WELL versed concerning Pascal's wager and I can see that you do not fully understand it. I've argued this one a lot because it is one of my pet peeves that atheists frequently (whether they know it or not) repeat this straw-man argument that has been popularized by the likes of "the thinking atheist" and Matt Dillahunty. Pascal's wager was meant to be taken within the context of his larger work called the Pensees (which is available on-line). In his larger work he had already made the argument that there is sufficient evidence for one to reasonably believe in the Christian God (yes, he addressed the others). Pascal's wager, properly stated would go something like this:

Given that it is equally reasonable to believe that God exists or not, it is better to believe (he meant "trust", btw) in the Christian god and be wrong than to not believe in the Christian god and be wrong.

So the argument itself is actually quite sound...the conclusion above properly follows from the premises. The disagreement you would have with Pascal is whether or not the evidence he cites was credible.

 

[elliott95]

....

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

On many occasions, I have said, "Hi God" or have attempted to communicate with him in a similar manner. Never have I heard or received any response. Why would a loving god not respond?

He responds every day and every second of each day to you and everyone else on earth. If he didn't respond by not holding all things together in this Universe, earth, our human anatomy, etc.... we would immediately collapse / blow apart / or burn up . Only when One understands the depth of Gods interaction IN our lives do we see how personal and loving he is toward us. DId you know that scientists have found out that the ENTIRE MASS of our Universe has to be just right in order for Earth to be here so we have a home ? So, think on things like that .

Next time you see our Sun , stop to thank God that he keeps that big ball of fire operating perfectly from 93,000,000 miles away to blanket Earth with the right amount of heat . Take a look inside your DNA cell and thank him for responding in such a way that he keeps it all in perfect order an operation because each cell is as complicated as the infrastructure of a major U.S. City.

Lastly, don't expect God to say 'hi' to you verbally because he doesn't have a Body and voicebox . But once you invite Christ his Son into your life, you will have God constantly urging you, feeling his love, 'speaking' to you thru prompts , directing you, quickening your heart to things of importance, and drastically changing the way you look at things, people, the universe, your purpose and meaning to life, and the hope you can have for a God-FILLED eternal existence beyond imagination . Its yours for the asking, taking, and owning --- it starts with genuinely doing what my signature passage says to do in order to be saved . I hope you will. THEN, you will see what Christian mean when they say they have a personal relationship with Christ the God of this Universe because he will come to you and fill you with his presence. Until then, you wont get God because yuoure still estranged from him. But everything changes once you received Christ his Son . Will you do that very very soon Friend ? I hope so. You are one heartbeat away from eternity like the rest of us..and then, it will be too late for most.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

On many occasions, I have said, "Hi God" or have attempted to communicate with him in a similar manner. Never have I heard or received any response. Why would a loving god not respond?

Why do you expect God to respond to you when you are so crystal clear that you not only don't believe in God, but you seem to be on a campaign to convince others there is no God. If I were God, I'd likely not answer you either.

 

[ladyches]

Sadly, I believe the OP simply wants to talk in circles.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Don't know why that ugh isn't using the atheist label, I don't usually see Christians do this sort of thing.

 

[bbyrd009]

hmm, i am noticing the similarity in "The issue is that I am incapable of allowing for the possibility of something which can't exist to exist" and the RCC position on an unflat earth...

and no, i of course cannot help you find God with your mind.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Guy