Why does God choose to remain invisible and undetectable?

[talquin]

What reputable scientific journals document these occurrences as real?

Are you looking for scientific work that attempts to verify the biblical accounts?

Yes, scientific journals which document the occurrences you cited.

Why would the deliverance of one country from another country constitute evidence of a supreme being?

Have you ever read the Exodus account?

Please don't answer my question with a question. Please answer my question first and then ask your question. Why would the deliverance of one country from another country constitute evidence of a supreme being?

If 1500BC at Mt. Sinai was the only time God appeared, then how do you account for all these other instances of people claiming God appeared to them?

It's far from the only time that God has appeared. It's just a pretty famous one.

How do you know that what appeared really was a god?

 

[Viren]

Why would God want to be detectable to only those who aren't skeptical? Isn't it the skeptical who need to be convinced?

God can never be figured out with the intellect only surrendered to. It's like the wind. It can never be caught by chasing it yet it can be felt if you're will to wait for it.

 

[talquin]

God can never be figured out with the intellect only surrendered to. It's like the wind. It can never be caught by chasing it yet it can be felt if you're will to wait for it.

Does the god you believe in manifest itself in reality? If so, what real thing is it you are calling 'god'?

 

[Davian]

I claim that you know God, you just don't like his existence and are in rebellion against Him.

As I have said elsewhere in this forum, why would I not want for there to be such a thing as an afterlife, and all that it entails? Why would I not want to believe that there is something more to a human's existence than this relatively brief biological stint on Earth?

You claim that you simply have no knowledge of any gods.

No, that is not what I claim. I guess if you are infallible, does it matter what I claim?

Here we'll have to agree to disagree.

While this is a tacit admission that you lack actual evidence for the existence of gods, it does beg the question: why do you claim that I know "God", if only to appear as lying or as deluded into thinking you know what others think?

 

[Davian]

Are you looking for scientific work that attempts to verify the biblical accounts?

I am open to other methodologies that would demonstrate that the veracity of a given biblical account.

However, simply presuming it to be true is not one of them.

 

[Jeremy E Walker]

Assuming a god exists, it has chosen to remain invisible. Just how does it better serve this god's agenda to have a world in which he doesn't manifest himself in reality? A world in which an existent god which doesn't manifest itself in reality is indistinguishable from a non-existent god?

Furthermore, why would a god set up a system in which our salvation is dependent upon believing something to exist on insufficient evidence?

I guess you have never heard of Jesus.

Paul, speaking of this Jesus declares: He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

And the writer of the epistle to the Hebrews states:

Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power.

 

[Ken-1122]

This scriptures are clear that God is seen and known by all. You can deny that this is true in your case but here we'll have to agree to disagree.


All the major stuff is recorded in scripture.

Just because scripture says it; doesn’t mean it’s true!

This isn't how it's gone down in history. Most prophets who are accepted today were not accepted during their time or were not accepted until they showed some miraculous sign that God had really sent them.

Name one prophet that is accepted today; outside religion. If you can’t, your argument fails

Not per se. But if he can back up that claim that's another thing. Rising from the dead might do it.

Too bad there is no proof he actually rose from the dead huh!

Indeed hypocrisy hurts the credibility of the church. Corruption per se shouldn't hurt our credibility.

Well it does! Now why would an all wise God use a church wrecked with credibility issues to manifest his tangibility?

Faith in the biblical sense has little to do with proof. Faith is more about relational trust. It's clear to all that God exists. That's not the issue. The issue is whether or not we trust Him and submit to His authority.

No, the first issue is his existence; there is no empirical evidence that your God exist. That is clear to all.

Ken

 

[WindStaff]

Just as God does not look upon the wicked, so to does the wicked not look upon God.

If you want to know God, you have to shed your fallen nature. Even when Moses looked upon God, he was blinded and his face turned bright. And this was a man who just worked ten plagues with a staff and split a sea- there simply is no questioning where his faith was afterward.

The religion thoroughly acknowledges indirectly and directly the issue of God not revealing Himself, it is written that the evidence for God is plain and that the wicked seek not.

 

[talquin]

Just as God does not look upon the wicked, so to does the wicked not look upon God.

If you want to know God, you have to shed your fallen nature.

When you say "If you want to know God", do you mean believe to exist?

I want to believe things that are true. So far, the quantity & quality of evidence suggesting the truth is that there is no god far outweighs the quantity and quality of evidence suggesting the truth is that there is a god.

Even when Moses looked upon God, he was blinded and his face turned bright. And this was a man who just worked ten plagues with a staff and split a sea- there simply is no questioning where his faith was afterward.

How do you know what Moses looked upon was actually a god?

The religion thoroughly acknowledges indirectly and directly the issue of God not revealing Himself, it is written that the evidence for God is plain and that the wicked seek not.

What evidence is there that a god exists?

 

[Davian]

Just as God does not look upon the wicked, so to does the wicked not look upon God.

If you want to know God, you have to shed your fallen nature.

To have a "fallen nature", you would already have to believe. That is some circular reasoning you have there.

Even when Moses looked upon God, he was blinded and his face turned bright. And this was a man who just worked ten plagues with a staff and split a sea- there simply is no questioning where his faith was afterward.

Was Moses more than a character in a book? I hear that evidence for his existence is thinner than that for Jesus.

The religion thoroughly acknowledges indirectly and directly the issue of God not revealing Himself, it is written that the evidence for God is plain and that the wicked seek not.

I can guess that it would be easy enough for the bible writers to jot that down, knowing that there would be skeptics asking for the religious claims to be substantiated. "The evidence for the bible is plain - it says so right here in the bible!".

 

[Viren]

Does the god you believe in manifest itself in reality? If so, what real thing is it you are calling 'god'?

Life that is eternally present.

 

[bhsmte]

Life that is eternally present.

I don't follow your logic, please explain.

 

[poolerboy0077]

Just as God does not look upon the wicked, so to does the wicked not look upon God.

lol

Anyone can play that game. Leprechauns exist, but only appear to those who sincerely believe in them! Viva the unfalsifiable!

 

[WindStaff]

lol

Anyone can play that game. Leprechauns exist, but only appear to those who sincerely believe in them! Viva the unfalsifiable!

That is just a rather bad excuse to avoid the inevitable fact that if you drop your senses to sin, you will perceive God.

It's not like the Bible doesn't adamantly teach this from beginning to end. You are incapable of doing such, and so you will never do what is required- therein you ridicule it.

 

[Tree of Life]

Name one prophet that is accepted today; outside religion. If you can’t, your argument fails

I'm not sure what you mean by "outside religion". Name one scientist that's accepted today outside of science.

But to your point, about 70% of Americans believe that Jesus was a prophet. He's pretty well accepted.

Too bad there is no proof he actually rose from the dead huh!

Why dismiss the multitudes of eyewitness testimonies that came from the first century?

Well it does! Now why would an all wise God use a church wrecked with credibility issues to manifest his tangibility?

God is a God who saves sinners. There need to be sinners in order for God to be seen as a savior.

No, the first issue is his existence; there is no empirical evidence that your God exist. That is clear to all.

Here we'll have to agree to disagree. I think that you know that God exists but you just very much dislike this idea.

 

[Davian]

I'm not sure what you mean by "outside religion". Name one scientist that's accepted today outside of science.

But to your point, about 70% of Americans believe that Jesus was a prophet. He's pretty well accepted.

The appeal to popularity is a fallacy.

Why dismiss the multitudes of eyewitness testimonies that came from the first century?

Please provide some names and addresses for these individuals.

God is a God who saves sinners. There need to be sinners in order for God to be seen as a savior.

There needs to be religion for there to be sin. No religion, no sin.

Here we'll have to agree to disagree. I think that you know that God exists but you just very much dislike this idea.

I don't know what you paid for that "mind-reading" apparatus, but you should demand your money back.

 

[juvenissun]

Assuming a god exists, it has chosen to remain invisible. Just how does it better serve this god's agenda to have a world in which he doesn't manifest himself in reality? A world in which an existent god which doesn't manifest itself in reality is indistinguishable from a non-existent god?

Furthermore, why would a god set up a system in which our salvation is dependent upon believing something to exist on insufficient evidence?

Every god is visible. Who is not?

As far as the second question, it is not logically right.

 

[poolerboy0077]

That is just a rather bad excuse to avoid the inevitable fact that if you drop your senses to sin, you will perceive God.

It's not like the Bible doesn't adamantly teach this from beginning to end. You are incapable of doing such, and so you will never do what is required- therein you ridicule it.

If you want to persist in your ignorance as to the existence of leprechauns so be it. It's your free will choice.

See? I can do this all day.

 

[bhsmte]

Every god is visible. Who is not?

As far as the second question, it is not logically right.

Please demonstrate in what way every God is visible.

 

[juvenissun]

Please demonstrate in what way every God is visible.

You name one to me, and I will show how is that god look like.