Why does God choose to remain invisible and undetectable?

[2PhiloVoid]

really?

stone any adulterers lately?

.....and........ there's the snarky come back that we Christians come to expect from skeptics. (Am I wrong here?)

RTS,

I think 'ChristCameBackFromTheDead' was trying to tell you that he attempts to implement mercy as a first priority. You, on the other hand, want to deflect it by appropriating an outworn view of what it is to "live by Scripture."

 

[Inkfingers]

why would a god set up a system in which our salvation is dependent upon believing something to exist on insufficient evidence?

Salvation is based on faith.

Faith is an irresistable gift of God.

Therefore no personal appearances are necessary - God chooses who he will save, we get no say in it.

 

[bhsmte]

Salvation is based on faith.

Faith is an irresistable gift of God.

Therefore no personal appearances are necessary - God chooses who he will save, we get no say in it.

Ok, I have heard that before.

Do you believe God loves all his creation?

 

[madaz]

Faith is an irresistable gift of God.

Irresistible gift? err...no offence but god can keep that gift.

From my observations, faith leads people away from truth.

But If there is a god that created the universe and life, that to me is the greatest gift of all.

 

[Return to Skepticism]

.....and........ there's the snarky come back that we Christians come to expect from skeptics. (Am I wrong here?)

RTS,

I think 'ChristCameBackFromTheDead' was trying to tell you that he attempts to implement mercy as a first priority. You, on the other hand, want to deflect it by appropriating an outworn view of what it is to "live by Scripture."

I doubt it's more threadbare than the "I could try and explain it to you, but you just wouldn't get it" kind of answer.

It is snarky.

If that is what he is trying to say, he should say it, instead of offering a refutable position of living by the scriptures.

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

really?

stone any adulterers lately?

John 8:1-11

1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to him, and he sat down and taught them. 3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst 4 they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. 5 Now din the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?” 6 This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, h“Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground. 9 But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus stood up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”

We are New Testament Christians.

Do you realize how ignorant people look when they throw Old Testament law at us? It really confirms to us that, that person refuses to seek God because they don't even know what scripture says.

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

I doubt it's more threadbare than the "I could try and explain it to you, but you just wouldn't get it" kind of answer.

It is snarky.

If that is what he is trying to say, he should say it, instead of offering a refutable position of living by the scriptures.

I actually wasn't being snarky, I was explaining how I felt. I can't explain the way I think and live to someone who is disconnected from that. My entire way of life is wrong to you. Since you don't believe in God, your entire way of life is wrong to me.

I meant what I meant.

 

[Return to Skepticism]

We are New Testament Christians.

Do you realize how ignorant people look when they throw Old Testament law at us? It really confirms to us that, that person refuses to seek God because they don't even know what scripture says.

There is no such thing as "New Testament Christians." You are either Christian, or not.

In the decades of Christianity that I took part in, the OT was always considered every much the word of god, as was the NT. Parts were picked out from the OT when it was convenient, and ignored when it was not.

God supposedly made immutable moral judgments, and the ones that are inconvenient to modern life, are called "old covenant." But parts of the old covenant are very much preached and expected, when it's something they can still enact under modern laws.

a great example is the Sabbath. 10 commandments were on every single sunday school wall, but the parts that just aren't easy to maintain, are just ignored.

Modern theists have decided what they want out of the texts, and gone with it.

 

[Return to Skepticism]

I actually wasn't being snarky, I was explaining how I felt. I can't explain the way I think and live to someone who is disconnected from that. My entire way of life is wrong to you. Since you don't believe in God, your entire way of life is wrong to me.

I meant what I meant.

I was being snarky. I was acknowledging my own snark.

 

[bhsmte]

I actually wasn't being snarky, I was explaining how I felt. I can't explain the way I think and live to someone who is disconnected from that. My entire way of life is wrong to you. Since you don't believe in God, your entire way of life is wrong to me.

I meant what I meant.

I highly doubt a certain Christian's and atheists way of life is entirely wrong to the other person. I would imagine, there are many things, they would agree on.

Now, as long as either party can refrain from claiming they are superior to the other because of a belief or lack of belief, some disagreement is to be expected.

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

There is no such thing as "New Testament Christians." You are either Christian, or not.

In the decades of Christianity that I took part in, the OT was always considered every much the word of god, as was the NT. Parts were picked out from the OT when it was convenient, and ignored when it was not.

God supposedly made immutable moral judgments, and the ones that are inconvenient to modern life, are called "old covenant." But parts of the old covenant are very much preached and expected, when it's something they can still enact under modern laws.

a great example is the Sabbath. 10 commandments were on every single sunday school wall, but the parts that just aren't easy to maintain, are just ignored.

Modern theists have decided what they want out of the texts, and gone with it.

There is New Testament Christians, of course this term isn't used in the bible. But we obey the laws given to us in the NT, not the OT. The NT clearly states numerous times that we are not bound by the OT that we are bound by the Holy Spirit. I'm surprised this is still an issue, we aren't even bound to the 10 commandments. Two laws Christ gave us, Love God and Love your neighbor. Then the rest we are reborn with Him in the Holy Spirit so we become a slave to righteousness and not sin.

It's not about convenience it's about what the scripture says. If you'd like, I can give you many verses explaining it clearly. Why people have chosen to believe we should uphold the OT laws are beyond me, maybe they are trying to prove to the world how "Christian" they are.

So yes, I'm a New Testament Christian because there is now a new covenant and the Holy Spirit was a gift to all who decided to carry the cross with Christ.

Nothing confusing about it.

 

[Return to Skepticism]

There is New Testament Christians, of course this term isn't used in the bible. But we obey the laws given to us in the NT, not the OT. The NT clearly states numerous times that we are not bound by the OT that we are bound by the Holy Spirit. I'm surprised this is still an issue, we aren't even bound to the 10 commandments. Two laws Christ gave us, Love God and Love your neighbor. Then the rest we are reborn with Him in the Holy Spirit so we become a slave to righteousness and not sin.

It's not about convenience it's about what the scripture says. If you'd like, I can give you many verses explaining it clearly. Why people have chosen to believe we should uphold the OT laws are beyond me, maybe they are trying to prove to the world how "Christian" they are.

So yes, I'm a New Testament Christian because there is now a new covenant and the Holy Spirit was a gift to all who decided to carry the cross with Christ.

Nothing confusing about it.

Nonsensical, given that church doctrines across most denominations still teach and preach OT laws (vis a vis, the 10 commandments) as what Christians must follow to be "known" as a christian. except the parts that they don't like.

They do overlook levitical law entirely, and say it's because they law no longer applies, but then talk about how violation of the 10 commandments is sinful.

having cake and eating it too as it pertains to doctrine.

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

I highly doubt a certain Christian's and atheists way of life is entirely wrong to the other person. I would imagine, there are many things, they would agree on.

Now, as long as either party can refrain from claiming they are superior to the other because of a belief or lack of belief, some disagreement is to be expected.

The praising of our Lord, the All Mighty shows us that we are not superior in any form. We are no good, we are wretched. We are not morally standing, we are sinners. We do not deserve any praise to be considered superior. It does just the opposite, it shows us how incredibly weak and feeble we are.

To say we are superior is exactly what the jews did to Christ himself. The problem is we are human and it's very easy to view heaven as deserved and not a gift. It's a gift man... that's it.

 

[Return to Skepticism]

The praising of our Lord, the All Mighty shows us that we are not superior in any form. We are no good, we are wretched. We are not morally standing, we are sinners. We do not deserve any praise to be considered superior. It does just the opposite, it shows us how incredibly weak and feeble we are.

To say we are superior is exactly what the jews did to Christ himself. The problem is we are human and it's very easy to view heaven as deserved and not a gift. It's a gift man... that's it.

a gift that comes with requirements to obtain is, by very definition, not a gift.

 

[bhsmte]

The praising of our Lord, the All Mighty shows us that we are not superior in any form. We are no good, we are wretched. We are not morally standing, we are sinners. We do not deserve any praise to be considered superior. It does just the opposite, it shows us how incredibly weak and feeble we are.

To say we are superior is exactly what the jews did to Christ himself. The problem is we are human and it's very easy to view heaven as deserved and not a gift. It's a gift man... that's it.

In regards to this particular "gift". If it works for you and makes you a better person, then it is the right path for you personally.

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

Nonsensical, given that church doctrines across most denominations still teach and preach OT laws (vis a vis, the 10 commandments) as what Christians must follow to be "known" as a christian. except the parts that they don't like.

They do overlook levitical law entirely, and say it's because they law no longer applies, but then talk about how violation of the 10 commandments is sinful.

having cake and eating it too as it pertains to doctrine.

Violation of the majority of the 10 Commandments IS a sin, do you know why? Because they all fall under Love God and Love your neighbor. Your Holy Spirit convicts you of the rest. Many churches DO preach from the OT, because they show God's character and teach us great lessons. Any church that says they must obey the mosaic laws, well, we call them Jewish.

Do you not look these things up before you attempt to tell a Christian what their laws are? Honestly, I'm not trying to be rude, but your lack of knowledge of the bible is especially disturbing considering you are trying to tell me what it says.

 

[bhsmte]

There is New Testament Christians, of course this term isn't used in the bible. But we obey the laws given to us in the NT, not the OT. The NT clearly states numerous times that we are not bound by the OT that we are bound by the Holy Spirit. I'm surprised this is still an issue, we aren't even bound to the 10 commandments. Two laws Christ gave us, Love God and Love your neighbor. Then the rest we are reborn with Him in the Holy Spirit so we become a slave to righteousness and not sin.

It's not about convenience it's about what the scripture says. If you'd like, I can give you many verses explaining it clearly. Why people have chosen to believe we should uphold the OT laws are beyond me, maybe they are trying to prove to the world how "Christian" they are.

So yes, I'm a New Testament Christian because there is now a new covenant and the Holy Spirit was a gift to all who decided to carry the cross with Christ.

Nothing confusing about it.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Doesn't Jesus state in the NT, that the OT laws are to be upheld?

 

[bhsmte]

Part of the selection process.

Why would a God who is supposed to love all his creation, have a selection process?

 

[Return to Skepticism]

Violation of the majority of the 10 Commandments IS a sin, do you know why? Because they all fall under Love God and Love your neighbor. Your Holy Spirit convicts you of the rest. Many churches DO preach from the OT, because they show God's character and teach us great lessons. Any church that says they must obey the mosaic laws, well, we call them Jewish.

Do you not look these things up before you attempt to tell a Christian what their laws are? Honestly, I'm not trying to be rude, but your lack of knowledge of the bible is especially disturbing considering you are trying to tell me what it says.

My lack of knowledge of the bible? how laughable. Don't mistake non-acceptance of the way people cherry pick their doctrines as not understanding what the bible says.

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

Correct me if I am wrong.

Doesn't Jesus state in the NT, that the OT laws are to be upheld?

Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Fulfill meaning to accomplish with His death and a new covenant. Prophets prophesied His coming, He fulfilled it, with His death he called us all to die with Him and be reborn into the new covenant, we now possess the Holy Spirit. It's easy to recognize, it's an extreme sensitivity to sin.