Why does God allow evil to exist on Earth?

[loudatheist101]

How does science and logic prove there is no God? Most scientist including the atheists scientists would say that is an incorrect statment.

Can we proove faries don't exist? No. Faries must exist then too huh.

90% of biologists are atheists actually. Theism, is only overwhelming in the public.

 

[elman]

Can we proove faries don't exist? No. Faries must exist then too huh.

90% of biologists are atheists actually. Theism, is only overwhelming in the public.

Fairies are not the point. The point is you incorrectly said the non existence of God could be proven scientifically. Now you say it cannot be proven that God does not exist. That was my point.

 

[elman]

If you are all so 'free-willed', why can you not ACT on your CHOICE to be loving to all people all the time ... ?

The fact is that you CANNOT even if you will to do so, so your will is not free at all, you just like to think it is... self-deceit ... !

But do not let this worry you, we are all made that way and God only makes very few to be perfectly loving like Jesus in this life :-

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Not only that ,but everyone has the opportunity at last to be loving in the new earth :-

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Free will is about the ability to love others. It is not about being able to love others perfectly all the time. Proving we are not perfect does not elimanate our having free will in any particular circumstance and course of action.

 

[stranger]

Free will is about the ability to love others. It is not about being able to love others perfectly all the time. Proving we are not perfect does not elimanate our having free will in any particular circumstance and course of action.

Love indeed seems the best attitude... and there is none better as far as I can see...

But there is a problem, if one is CAREFUL enough to WATCH oneself ...

What is sin? Sin is simply breaking the law :-

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

What is the law? The law is simply to love God and thus love all men ...

Thus sin is ANY unlovingness to anyone in the world [or not loving God]

Thus we see that all men [save only Jesus] are sinners , all are unloving then , so what point talking about being loving when one CANNOT do it ?

The problem for men who WANT to be able to love is that FAITH to be ABLE to love is GIVEN ONLY by God , it does NOT come from ourselves by our will! :-

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Thus God DETERMINES who wil STOP sinning and become saints in THIS earth and who will stop sinning and be saints in the righteous new earth :-

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Thus it is God alone who FITS men to destruction in death and the END of THIS world, but redeems the many by perfecting their love as saints in the righteous kingdom COME in the new earth....

Why then does God take a FEW FIRST in THIS earth?

Simply that God needs but 144,000 sainst from this earth by grace of His new covenant with the House of Judah [Jews] and t|he House of Israel [lost, paganised as gentiles for millenia] - Heb 8:3-13 is absolutely specific, ONLY these two Houses receive grace in THIS world, and not all Israel died as saints either, Jesus takes only 144,000 first and there are far more than that in Israel... Rev 7:3-8

Thus God takes His FEW kings and priests first , at Jesus' return , so that they will be ready in the kingdom in the new earth to serve as priests and kings, that is why they are firstfruits, but the mANY are saved after BY THEIR MINISTRY [Rev 7:9-10]

Thus the many go by the BROAD way to Jesus ALSO, but not in this earth, rather in the kingdom...

But Jesus' kingdom is NOT of THIS earth, he says so :-

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:

BUT it is NOT in haeven either because Jesus' kings RULE on EARTH [thus it s the new earth where they rule!]

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

So God alone determines who shall be wholly loving and follow Jesus now as saints tried in perfection of their GIVEN ability love ...

and God alone determines thus the MANY who will die first as SINNERS, [without love], and yet be redeemed afterwards by those who were CHOSEN to be first BEFORE god even created the world ! :-

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Thus it is the scripture taht gives the truth about man, not the pagan phlosophy of free will that denies God's power to conform men to the image of Jesus [perfectly loving, without any sin] ... God WILL show that power - Romans 9:22 - and men will give up in the new earth their self-contradictory faith in themselves which denies our most basic belief that things are CAUSED , they are not random as free-will attempts to give men...

Men are intelligent, they RESPOND to things in determinate ways, not randomly... thus God can determine men's lovingness simply by giving SOME men the WHOLE truth NOW, and many men all truth later, once God has His servants ready to RULE as perfect kings and priests in His kingdom COME on earth[but not this earth, not now then!]

 

[elman]

=

stranger;33064244]Love indeed seems the best attitude... and there is none better as far as I can see...

But there is a problem, if one is CAREFUL enough to WATCH oneself ...

What is sin? Sin is simply breaking the law :-

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

What is the law? The law is simply to love God and thus love all men ...

Thus sin is ANY unlovingness to anyone in the world [or not loving God]

Thus we see that all men [save only Jesus] are sinners , all are unloving then , so what point talking about being loving when one CANNOT do it ?

The problem for men who WANT to be able to love is that FAITH to be ABLE to love is GIVEN ONLY by God , it does NOT come from ourselves by our will! :-

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Thus God DETERMINES who wil STOP sinning and become saints in THIS earth and who will stop sinning and be saints in the righteous new earth :-

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Thus it is God alone who FITS men to destruction in death and the END of THIS world, but redeems the many by perfecting their love as saints in the righteous kingdom COME in the new earth....

Why then does God take a FEW FIRST in THIS earth?

Simply that God needs but 144,000 sainst from this earth by grace of His new covenant with the House of Judah [Jews] and t|he House of Israel [lost, paganised as gentiles for millenia] - Heb 8:3-13 is absolutely specific, ONLY these two Houses receive grace in THIS world, and not all Israel died as saints either, Jesus takes only 144,000 first and there are far more than that in Israel... Rev 7:3-8

Thus God takes His FEW kings and priests first , at Jesus' return , so that they will be ready in the kingdom in the new earth to serve as priests and kings, that is why they are firstfruits, but the mANY are saved after BY THEIR MINISTRY [Rev 7:9-10]

Thus the many go by the BROAD way to Jesus ALSO, but not in this earth, rather in the kingdom...

But Jesus' kingdom is NOT of THIS earth, he says so :-

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:

BUT it is NOT in haeven either because Jesus' kings RULE on EARTH [thus it s the new earth where they rule!]

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

So God alone determines who shall be wholly loving and follow Jesus now as saints tried in perfection of their GIVEN ability love ...

and God alone determines thus the MANY who will die first as SINNERS, [without love], and yet be redeemed afterwards by those who were CHOSEN to be first BEFORE god even created the world ! :-

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Thus it is the scripture taht gives the truth about man, not the pagan phlosophy of free will that denies God's power to conform men to the image of Jesus [perfectly loving, without any sin] ... God WILL show that power - Romans 9:22 - and men will give up in the new earth their self-contradictory faith in themselves which denies our most basic belief that things are CAUSED , they are not random as free-will attempts to give men...

Men are intelligent, they RESPOND to things in determinate ways, not randomly... thus God can determine men's lovingness simply by giving SOME men the WHOLE truth NOW, and many men all truth later, once God has His servants ready to RULE as perfect kings and priests in His kingdom COME on earth[but not this earth, not now then!][/SIZE

I think you get off the track when you go from the point that none of us can be perfectly loving to assume therefor none of us can be loving. We can be loving. We can be good neighbors to each other even though we cannot do it perfectly. We can be good fathers even as we cannot be perfect fathers. God does not control who we are loving to and who we are not loving to and that is why Jesus encouraged us to be loving and John encouraged us to be loving and Paul encouraged us to be loving and why Jesus gave us the parable of the good Samaitan to show us it is something we can do. If God did control our being loving or unloving it would not be us that is loving or unloving but God. Paul said faith without love is meaningless and John said we cannot be a child of God if we do not love.

 

[stranger]

I think you get off the track when you go from the point that none of us can be perfectly loving to assume therefor none of us can be loving.

Rather learn what the saints and Jesus say about it in scripture, instead opf relying on your acquired tradition of men... then you would see from the saints why the pagan Greek philosophers who invented 'free-will' were wrong... then you might believe the saints when they say only saints can love God and obey Jesus in doing love at all times... it is no-one's fault that they cannot love, it is down to God's choice even before He created the DETERMINATE world .. hoping that our sin is really love simply helps us not at all ... conning oneself that one loves because one wants to is just exactly what Jesus calls hypocrisy , Paul put it succinctly, NOT conning himself :-

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Thus the WILL is NOT free , it cannot make a man do good until LED by being GIVEN the whole truth BY GOD!

Saying taht one is loving is no good, it is DOING love all the time which leads to the spirit [translation] since man must be TRIALLED in unjust suffering as the sainst and Jesus received in this life [and all will receive in the new earth AFTER being given all truth by God at last]

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

We can be loving. We can be good neighbors to each other even though we cannot do it perfectly. We can be good fathers even as we cannot be perfect fathers.

Again you are conning yourself, the saints and Jesus say otherwise :-

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

A little single sin goes a long way with God ! God simply requires perfected love before translation to spirit, and one cannot even worship God until one worships in spirit, not as the masses do in churches of mens tales by now-NECESSARILY-corrupted traditions of religion [Rev 13:3-7 -Jesus shows that ALL the world will have a false religion!]...

God does not control who we are loving to and who we are not loving to

Yes He does... just as you control the character who is you in your dreams... but are separate [as God is separate ,holy] from the seeming reality of your dreams

and that is why Jesus encouraged us to be loving

A mistaken idea, Jesus commanded ONLY his disciples to be loving since he knew that only they could be loving... he never commanded you or I ,and we could not obey him if he did, so he is not our lord because we cannot obey him... your lord = person you OBEY:-

Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

and John encouraged us to be loving

be more careful in what you say, John only encouraged the saints to be loving in their trial to perfect their love, not you or I

and Paul encouraged us to be loving

It just ain't so, Paul never asked anyonne who isn't a saint to be loving either...

and why Jesus gave us the parable of the good Samaitan to show us it is something we can do.

but we obviously cannot do it, we do not do it ... open your eyes to your daily sin that you cannot rid yourself of by any means let alone by your will... thus your will is NOT free at all... you are slave to sin just like almost all human beings... and because god will not tell us all the truth yet [but will do so in the new earth]

If God did control our being loving or unloving it would not be us that is loving or unloving but God.

God is not a human being, He is 'spirit', the stuff that MOVES human beings ... and it moves most men to do evil as well as some to do good ,do you disagree with God's own prophets ??? e.g. :-

Lamentations 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?

Judges 9:23 Then God sent an evil spirit...

1 Samuel 18:10 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God...

The spirit moves men to evil and they cannot stop it doing so even if they will to be loving... the will is not free to love until God GIVES faith by ALL His truth by His OWN holy spirit from Him, not from us ... then man is CONFORMED to be a saint in the evry image of sinless Jesus ... and after TRIAL of that given faith amn is transalted to spirit with perfected love... there is no sense whatever in pretending that there is another way than the way Jesus showed s, baptism of the spirit into all truth [John 16:13] and tiral of faith GIVEN by God to perfect love ... pretending one can love without God is just conning oneself :-

1 Thessalonians 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye [saints!] need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God

Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Try telling that to theaverage 'preacher' or self-styled 'evangelist' , that God alone will do the teaching !!!

Paul said faith without love is meaningless

That's exactly MY point, you do NOT have faith as a sinner, because faith is in ALL truth of God, NOT in men's philosophies of free-will or in modern apostate corrupted religion... the saints annd Jesus and teh prophets spell it out, so why no listen to THEM instead of listening to commonplace Greek philosophy about free-will and the religion of sinners handed down by traditions of men, not from Jesus as the scriptures...

and John said we cannot be a child of God if we do not love.

Again that is MY point, you CANNOT be a child of God if you sin... ANY unlovingness to anyone in the whole world is sin, and these terrble sins are already INSTITUTIONAL in religion and in our society, we already most have the mark of the beast inside our heads and in our daily actions... you canno escape by will because God simply will not show you HOW even if you know that you MUST follow Jesus and perfect your love EVENTUALLY ...

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

Your post is based of a universal, or natural agreement on what an evality is. It is, what society chooses it to be as. Those who view a phenomenon can interpret it as good or bad. Evil has no nature, it has no set definition. Evil is everything.

 

[Ymeg]

Because LOVE REQUIRES A FREEWILL!

No it does not. God is all powerful, he can change this and purge all destruction on earth.

An example of this is the people in North Korea. Is free will being taught as a child? Yes, it is, They can choose not to love the leader, but they don't.

 

[stranger]

Your post is based of a universal, or natural agreement on what an evality is. It is, what society chooses it to be as. Those who view a phenomenon can interpret it as good or bad. Evil has no nature, it has no set definition. Evil is everything.

Societies do indeed mae false [often arbitrary]evaluations of good and evil for the sake of promoting the goals of the short-sighted selfish elites of this world, BUT in fcat one can measure destructiveness [as entropy increase] and thus know what is more destructive and what is less so ... it gives one an objective measure of the ammount of evil and so one might choose the good instead by minimising the increase in entropy... if one had the will to do so... but men's will is not free to do so...

Thus only the saints od what is good because only they know what is good and CAN do it [John 16:13 - all truth given only to the saints, so that they can follow Jesus in perfecting love in this earth and be kings and priests in the new earth kingdom of God]

So there is the false measure of evil by societies [which also presume to judge men without having the knowledge to be able to judge truly , and even pervert judgment deliberately for short-term empty goals]

... and there is a best measure of evil , which men ignore because it would show how evil men truly are and that we cannot change, our will is not driven by the truth of God to be good , to minimise 'destructiveness' in the earth...

Thus science discovered decades ago that our very life is based upon destruction [e.g. the destruction of other life as our 'food' ], but in seeing that we COULD [in principle as-it-were] live better lives, but most men have closed their eyes to it because men BELIEVE they do better [in as far as men do look forward at all!] by being more evil, tradition has power to close men's eyes to any truths which may emerge ...

Men thus do more evil than is necessary because men live in ignorance of what evil is and because men live locally in space and in time, not being able to see beyond their limited area in both , not mostly wanting to do so... and if one does venture beyond, one meets the pain of seeing what one truly is, and that pain limits men to living with evil beyond what is necessary for life as we experience it...

Stepping outside existence as we think we 'know' it, the spirit that moves men to act is like a different realm of being with alien properties, no time, no space, no phenomena, no change, no good and no evil ... it is beyond most men to visualise it because we have no means to do so and our words fail because we have little experience to hang words on as pointers ...

Thus most men cannot know what is beyond themselves and phenomena despite taht there are 'cracks' in this 'reality' through which the spirit demonstrates its existence .... men thus lie to temselves to simpliify their acceptance of unnecessary evil in their simplistic lives... but why?

there is no joy in ignorane , in covering up the desire to love within one, nor is there any satisfaction in pursuing that desire toward all truth [as GIVEN by God now, but only to the few He need FIRST as priests and kings for His future kingdom inte new earth] ... but pain stops men pursuing that goal set within them to love, men cannot then see because of the way we are made up and because God's apparent will is to know evil through us BEFORE giving men all truth to be able to live loving lives in a new earth, a whole new scenario where love dominates , just as evil dominates in this world...

BUT beyond BOTH worlds is the spirit, the so-called 'third' heaven where there is no earth, no more phenomena... timeless existence about which most men can but speculate until all truth is GIVEN ...

 

[stranger]

No it does not. God is all powerful, he can change this and purge all destruction on earth.

Quite true, love does NOT require free-will, and indeed men's will is not 'free' it is determinate like everything we know of in this world... our beliefs and attitudes and faith are determined even if we cannot yet face the implications of that general truth about this world , that everything is CAUSED and thus we are caused in whatever we do, not free, NOT INDEPENDENT , not random in our acts , but directed!

1 Thessalonians 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

The basis of your entropy, or your evality of the human identity is still based of a universal concept that their are some who identity evil and therefore create the concept for all. This is an impossiblity since so called "saints" and prophets were all men just like you and me. Evil is everything, what i find bad can be evil, what i find good can be transcendingly and overwhelmingly blissful.

Your concept of love does not imply, because you have not given the definition of love by which you imply it as. I could "love" to eat i could "love" to cause suffering. Hitler for example loved his perspectives and the german people thus gained a sense he was achieving a personified example of a naturality good by which in fact he was achieving a societical evality. His "love" for the master race was in fact good to him, but the destruction he caused thus renamed him as the societical essential of evil.

 

[Lisa0315]

The basis of your entropy, or your evality of the human identity is still based of a universal concept that their are some who identity evil and therefore create the concept for all. This is an impossiblity since so called "saints" and prophets were all men just like you and me. Evil is everything, what i find bad can be evil, what i find good can be transcendingly and overwhelmingly blissful.

Your concept of love does not imply, because you have not given the definition of love by which you imply it as. I could "love" to eat i could "love" to cause suffering. Hitler for example loved his perspectives and the german people thus gained a sense he was achieving a personified example of a naturality good by which in fact he was achieving a societical evality. His "love" for the master race was in fact good to him, but the destruction he caused thus renamed him as the societical essential of evil.

That is an interesting way of looking at good and evil. However, for those who believe in God, we measure good and evil by Him. I also believe that within all of us is the image of God, and in all cultures, certain things are considered "good" and certain things are considered "evil".

For example, in all cultures, murder is considered evil. So is cowardice. Yet, those words have different meanings in different cultures. What is murder to some, will be war to others. What is cowardice to some is tolerence to others. Yet, there is still an ingrained limit on behavior and a definition of "good" vs "evil".

Lisa

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

That is an interesting way of looking at good and evil. However, for those who believe in God, we measure good and evil by Him. I also believe that within all of us is the image of God, and in all cultures, certain things are considered "good" and certain things are considered "evil".

For example, in all cultures, murder is considered evil. So is cowardice. Yet, those words have different meanings in different cultures. What is murder to some, will be war to others. What is cowardice to some is tolerence to others. Yet, there is still an ingrained limit on behavior and a definition of "good" vs "evil".

Lisa

There is a set definition to war. There is no set definition to murder when it is involved in war. I could murder someone while in war with another. There is no ingrained limit on human behavior, or of the choices between good and evil. If i was a hermit and lived in the woods and suddenly looked upon the modern society i would see something totally evil. If i was one who lived as a man in modern society and looked upon the peacefullness of the hermit i would see something so unused by me i would find it evil and almost blasphemous to my upraising. The hermit may look upon the modern society and see something so untuned to him that he may find it interesting and blissful while those who have lived it their entire lives find it frightening and condeming.

Evil is everything, evil is other people. Until i commit act and see the phenomenon of the other may i thus change the evality of the individual or thing of the other into a whole new concured approach.

 

[Lisa0315]

There is a set definition to war. There is no set definition to murder when it is involved in war. I could murder someone while in war with another. There is no ingrained limit on human behavior, or of the choices between good and evil. If i was a hermit and lived in the woods and suddenly looked upon the modern society i would see something totally evil. If i was one who lived as a man in modern society and looked upon the peacefullness of the hermit i would see something so unused by me i would find it evil and almost blasphemous to my upraising. The hermit may look upon the modern society and see something so untuned to him that he may find it interesting and blissful while those who have lived it their entire lives find it frightening and condeming.

Evil is everything, evil is other people. Until i commit act and see the phenomenon of the other may i thus change the evality of the individual or thing of the other into a whole new concured approach.

The set definition of war varies from century to century and from culture to culture. To us, eating one's enemy would be evil. To another culture, it is power, and therefore, good.

Lisa

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

The set definition of war varies from century to century and from culture to culture. To us, eating one's enemy would be evil. To another culture, it is power, and therefore, good.

Lisa

So the definition is not set? You contradict yourself. You are agreeing with me when you say this and therefore stray from your original argument since you are now denying the existence of set social evalities and blisses.

 

[quatona]

The set definition of war varies from century to century and from culture to culture. To us, eating one's enemy would be evil. To another culture, it is power, and therefore, good.

Gotta agree with you here.
Didn´t want to leave this sort of unique occasion unmentioned.

 

[Lisa0315]

So the definition is not set? You contradict yourself.

Not at all. I said (or meant to infer) that from human perspective, I completely agree with you that good and evil have different definitions across cultures. However, I believe that there are some fundemental "image of God" types of things that we all find evil. The taking of human life for example, but we take life when we can satisfy our culture's definition of the innocence or guilt of that person. Still, the act of taking life is universally seen as something that must be weighed against good or evil.

That weight, that burden, that need to justify taking life is that image of God within all of us.

Lisa

 

[Lisa0315]

Gotta agree with you here.
Didn´t want to leave this sort of unique occasion unmentioned.

WHAAAA????

At last, the light of God has shown down on you and revealed to you the truth and wisdom of ALL I have ever written. This truly is a day that must be occasioned by a great big ole, JUST KIDDING!

This is kind of cool. I don't think you and I have EVER agreed on a single thing.

Lisa

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

WHAAAA????

At last, the light of God has shown down on you and revealed to you the truth and wisdom of ALL I have ever written. This truly is a day that must be occasioned by a great big ole, JUST KIDDING!

This is kind of cool. I don't think you and I have EVER agreed on a single thing.

Lisa

That is the line by which our beliefs of atheism and christianity cross.

 

[Lisa0315]

That is the line by which our beliefs of atheism and christianity cross.

Very true.

You know you just committed a sin against atheism by calling it a "belief". I mean, if you are going to be an atheist, young man, be a good one!

Now straighten up. You are slumping in your chair. When are you EVER going to clean this room? Is your homework done?

(I have a 16 year old son. He is the sweetest creature on planet earth, and I mean that sincerely. My daughter was a living terror at this age, but my son has not given me a moments worry.)

Lisa