Why does God allow evil to exist on Earth?

[enjolras]

Who the fudge would care? Atleast we wouldn't have to go through it. Atleast we wouldn't have pictures like the one I have in my icon.

I'll agree with you on that one

 

[loudatheist101]

I'll agree with you on that one

Lol, then why did He bother to create evil

 

[enjolras]

even if there wasn't evil as we know it... do you think that other things would be considered "evil"? Its all to do with "my" God giving us freedom in our actions - like it or not there are/ have been some evil people in the world - and usually they rise to power.

 

[EmmVeePee]

The logical problem of evil refers to the argument that if there a god exists, by definition, he is perfect, and omnipotent. Since he created the world, and the world is imperfect, or there is evil in everyday life, then god is does not exist (he can’t be impotent or imperfect by definition). The initial counter to this argument is that humans are in control of the evil. However this is refuted by the problem of natural evil, hurricanes, disease, tornadoes, etc. A being that is perfect can not create evil, it’d be like a painter, using only black and white colors, create an image using stray colors. Leibniz has a very good explanation for natural evil in the world which is best summarized by the quote “The whole is greater than the sum of its parts”. We can actually take that quote itself for an example what it describes – The sentence rearranged so that each word is listed alphabetically, “The greater is it’s of parts sum than the whole.” means nothing. Each word has its own meaning, but until assembled properly, is just jargon. Leibniz uses this and explains that humans can only see their own world. We are incapable of seeing the entire universe, and that the imperfections and evil may work out for the best. An example of this would be a beehive. Bees alternate their jobs through stages of their life, however there is only 1 queen that is capable of reproducing. The rest of the hive isn’t able to reproduce, which is in sense, an imperfection. However, this contributes and helps the rest of the hive grow, and continues it’s species to the next generation. Bees are one of the most populated organisms on Earth. So Leibniz says that an imperfection to us, may be a part of the perfection of the whole. To me, this is a successful argument because it allows evil and God to coexist, as well as God to have control over what we consider evil. There is another argument originated with Augustine I read elsewhere that evil doesn’t exist, and what we perceive as evil is just the absence of good.

 

[quatona]

even if there wasn't evil as we know it... do you think that other things would be considered "evil"? Its all to do with "my" God giving us freedom in our actions - like it or not there are/ have been some evil people in the world - and usually they rise to power.

Your god has limited our freedom in our actions in many ways. Limiting this freedom a bit more by taking away the option of evil wouldn´t be much of an issue in my book - he could have given us wings and thus the ability to fly, in exchange.

 

[loudatheist101]

even if there wasn't evil as we know it... do you think that other things would be considered "evil"? Its all to do with "my" God giving us freedom in our actions - like it or not there are/ have been some evil people in the world - and usually they rise to power.

Then why doesn't your god not tolerate evil here on Earth as he does in heaven?

 

[enjolras]

Your god has limited our freedom in our actions in many ways. Limiting this freedom a bit more by taking away the option of evil wouldn´t be much of an issue in my book - he could have given us wings and thus the ability to fly, in exchange.

how has God limited our actions? true - God didn't give us wings, yet he still gave us freedom, to love, think, cry, or whatever else - even sin.

 

[loudatheist101]

how has God limited our actions? true - God didn't give us wings, yet he still gave us freedom, to love, think, cry, or whatever else - even sin.

Why? What for? Why does he allow people to burn babies and cause genocide and slaughter? Why does he allow nature to kill innocent people too? He doesn't allow it in Heaven.

 

[Lisa0315]

The answer just came to me.

Good and evil coexist on this planet, but just as God created us with the capacity to be evil, He also created us with the capacity to eliminate evil. The atoning work of Christ on the cross paid the debt of sin for all that will receive the gift of salvation. If the whole world was saved, we will have eliminated most evil. God will then eliminate what remains through our regeneration and constant repentance.

So, why don't y'all do your part, repent, receive the gift of salvation.

Lisa

 

[quatona]

The logical problem of evil refers to the argument that if there a god exists, by definition, he is perfect, and omnipotent. Since he created the world, and the world is imperfect, or there is evil in everyday life, then god is does not exist (he can’t be impotent or imperfect by definition). The initial counter to this argument is that humans are in control of the evil. However this is refuted by the problem of natural evil, hurricanes, disease, tornadoes, etc. A being that is perfect can not create evil, it’d be like a painter, using only black and white colors, create an image using stray colors. Leibniz has a very good explanation for natural evil in the world which is best summarized by the quote “The whole is greater than the sum of its parts”. We can actually take that quote itself for an example what it describes – The sentence rearranged so that each word is listed alphabetically, “The greater is it’s of parts sum than the whole.” means nothing. Each word has its own meaning, but until assembled properly, is just jargon. Leibniz uses this and explains that humans can only see their own world. We are incapable of seeing the entire universe, and that the imperfections and evil may work out for the best. An example of this would be a beehive. Bees alternate their jobs through stages of their life, however there is only 1 queen that is capable of reproducing. The rest of the hive isn’t able to reproduce, which is in sense, an imperfection. However, this contributes and helps the rest of the hive grow, and continues it’s species to the next generation. Bees are one of the most populated organisms on Earth. So Leibniz says that an imperfection to us, may be a part of the perfection of the whole. To me, this is a successful argument because it allows evil and God to coexist, as well as God to have control over what we consider evil. There is another argument originated with Augustine I read elsewhere that evil doesn’t exist, and what we perceive as evil is just the absence of good.

By the same token we could assume that everything is perfectly evil, and that - in misunderstanding this perfect evilness - we perceive things as good that actually are just prerequisites for the perfect evil.

Besides, the actual problem is not some abstract evil, but the fact that people are suffering, concretely. I do not really see what "perfection" might mean if it comes with such major disadvantages. If you´d say "well, the world as a whole might be pretty ok and justify the permanent suffering as a necessary prerequisite", but perfection??

Thirdly, god could have solved the problem easily by giving us insight into this great perfection of the whole that Leibniz is speculating about.

 

[loudatheist101]

The answer just came to me.

Good and evil coexist on this planet, but just as God created us with the capacity to be evil, He also created us with the capacity to eliminate evil. The atoning work of Christ on the cross paid the debt of sin for all that will receive the gift of salvation. If the whole world was saved, we will have eliminated most evil. God will then eliminate what remains through our regeneration and constant repentance.

So, why don't y'all do your part, repent, receive the gift of salvation.

Lisa

You may see it that way, I just see it simply as it is; sometimes are good times, others are not so good times, and a few are misrable times. It's all chance. Not an act or doing of a god. It's all just chance. People just use gods to explain stuff like this.

 

[quatona]

how has God limited our actions? true - God didn't give us wings,

He didn´t give us a lot of things. He didn´t give me the ability to think as precisely as Einstein did, and he didn´t give any of us full insight in the paradigms of his creation. Just to name two of millions.

yet he still gave us freedom, to love, think, cry, or whatever else - even sin.

And I say: I didn´t ask for the "freedom" to sin. It´s a curse. He could have kept it. Just by attaching a word with a positive ring to it it doesn´t get any more attractive.

 

[loudatheist101]

He didn´t give us a lot of things. He didn´t give me the ability to think as precisely as Einstein did, and he didn´t give any of us full insight in the paradigms of his creation. Just to name two of millions.

And I say: I didn´t ask for the "freedom" to sin. It´s a curse. He could have kept it. Just by attaching a word with a positive ring to it it doesn´t get any more attractive.

He probably should of made it so we could understand him and get more people to believe and love him. That is, assuming he was actually real.

 

[quatona]

The answer just came to me.

Good and evil coexist on this planet, but just as God created us with the capacity to be evil, He also created us with the capacity to eliminate evil. The atoning work of Christ on the cross paid the debt of sin for all that will receive the gift of salvation. If the whole world was saved, we will have eliminated most evil. God will then eliminate what remains through our regeneration and constant repentance.

Still doesn´t answer the question why he didn´t create this desired state right away.

So, why don't y'all do your part, repent, receive the gift of salvation.

I understand that it is hard for you to keep in mind that atheists are talking hypothetically when asking such questions about your god concepts.

 

[enjolras]

Why? What for? Why does he allow people to burn babies and cause genocide and slaughter? Why does he allow nature to kill innocent people too? He doesn't allow it in Heaven.

Nobody knows, if God allows it, there must be some reason, and i don't claim to know what that is - I do agree with you however that all this is wrong and shouldn't be a part of the world - especially greed and Poverty, yet there has to be a reason that God is allowing this to happen, whatever that may be, only Jesus knew - and I'm sure there is clues in the bible.

 

[quatona]

Nobody knows, if God allows it, there must be some reason, and i don't claim to know what that is - I do agree with you however that all this is wrong and shouldn't be a part of the world - especially greed and Poverty, yet there has to be a reason that God is allowing this to happen, whatever that may be, only Jesus knew - and I'm sure there is clues in the bible.

That went fast from "It´s quite simple really..."(post#171) to "I don´t know."

 

[Lisa0315]

You may see it that way, I just see it simply as it is; sometimes are good times, others are not so good times, and a few are misrable times. It's all chance. Not an act or doing of a god. It's all just chance. People just use gods to explain stuff like this.

I know. However, you cannot continue to argue the good vs evil thing if you will not be part of the fix.

Lisa

 

[loudatheist101]

Nobody knows, if God allows it, there must be some reason, and i don't claim to know what that is - I do agree with you however that all this is wrong and shouldn't be a part of the world - especially greed and Poverty, yet there has to be a reason that God is allowing this to happen, whatever that may be, only Jesus knew - and I'm sure there is clues in the bible.

Thats not good enough for me sorry.

"Oh, I don't know why my god allows genocide and suffering and babies to burn, these things are really bad but, since they happen, my god and Jesus must have a reason". Dude, maybe it's just chance, like I said above.

 

[loudatheist101]

I know. However, you cannot continue to argue the good vs evil thing if you will not be part of the fix.

Lisa

What?

 

[enjolras]

He didn´t give us a lot of things. He didn´t give me the ability to think as precisely as Einstein did, and he didn´t give any of us full insight in the paradigms of his creation. Just to name two of millions.

And I say: I didn´t ask for the "freedom" to sin. It´s a curse. He could have kept it. Just by attaching a word with a positive ring to it it doesn´t get any more attractive.

No matter what, sin is still a "Freedom" you may think to sin is a curse, but do you think to love is a curse? And God may not have given you the ability to think like Einstein... but I'm sure you have other things you can do well - which I believe are gifts from God.