Why does everyone hate Mary so much?

[Albion]

Not to mention the innumerable Bathtub Virgins I see very frequently.

That's thought to be the epitome of devotion to the Blessed Virgin, don't you know--placing a statue of her in a bathtub and erecting the thing in the front yard of your house? In this way, we are alerted to the fact that this homeowner does not "hate" Mary.

 

[stray bullet]

I can easily appreciate your point. Our friend may unintentionally be saying that some devotees congratulate themselves for relating to Mary as though she were a demi-god, even though any mention of the term routinely brings a shocked denial.

I am not sure what may be confusing about my post.

The problem is when some protestants say Mary was just the birth mother of Jesus, or "just a "vessel God used", denying that Mary was the mother of Jesus. Mary is the mother of Jesus. She is the source of His humanity. She is related to us, thus Jesus' humanity came from Mary, came from us.

This is important as certain groups have denied the humanity of Jesus in the past. They made out (quasi-Gnostics) Jesus as being God in human appearance. Protestantism revived elements of Gnosticism some taking on more elements than others. You see a lot of this in the disunity between flesh and spirit. Instead of being baptized by the spirit through water, one is baptized in the spirit and then 'demonstrates' their baptism through water. This is why they some communion into something symbolic.

I believe non-traditional protestantism will quickly become full blown gnostic, Gnosticism always breeds in those types of groups. How many protestants believe that we are purely spiritual in Heaven, or even become angels? It's all there if you just pay attention to it creeping back in.

 

[Albion]

I am not sure what may be confusing about my post.

I'm not sure that there IS anything especially confusing about it. You may be worrying for nothing.

The problem is when some protestants say Mary was just the birth mother of Jesus, or "just a "vessel God used", denying that Mary was the mother of Jesus.

Those two things are not mutually exclusive and, yes, Catholics also describe her in similar terms. The discussion here merely bent the facts in order to substantiate an accusation that isn't valid.

This is important as certain groups have denied the humanity of Jesus in the past. They made out (quasi-Gnostics) Jesus as being God in human appearance.

OK, then let's at least be honest enough to speak to the issue or problem of certain Gnostics. What we've seen here is a broadside against Protestants, not Gnostics, and Protestants are not Gnostics.

Protestantism revived elements of Gnosticism some taking on more elements than others.

Well, the same can be said of Catholicism, too, but some of us are not eager to paint a whole church with a brush that is intended for a tiny, unrepresentative sect here or there. You might consider adopting the same policy.

 

[Rhamiel]

OK, then let's at least be honest enough to speak to the issue or problem of certain Gnostics. What we've seen here is a broadside against Protestants, not Gnostics, and Protestants are not Gnostics.

some Protestants are Gnostic
Stray Bullet pointed out many Gnostic beliefs that are gaining ground in Protestant denominations

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

I am not sure what may be confusing about my post.

The problem is when some protestants denying that Mary was the mother of Jesus.

Please document that all Protestants deny that Mary was the mother of Jesus, and the rationale for THAT documenting that therefore they specially HATE Mary (the sole issue of this thread - that HATE).





.

 

[Rhamiel]

Please document that all Protestants deny that Mary was the mother of Jesus, and the rationale for THAT documenting that therefore they specially HATE Mary (the sole issue of this thread - that HATE).





.

many of them say that Mary is the "earthly mother of Jesus"

 

[Metal Minister]

many of them say that Mary is the "earthly mother of Jesus"

How is that denying Mary was Jesus mother?

 

[bbbbbbb]

many of them say that Mary is the "earthly mother of Jesus"

Do they use that as a spiteful and hateful title such as "Most Earthly Mother of Jesus"? If so, please show us any Protestants who use that as a title for Mary?

503 Mary's virginity manifests God's absolute initiative in the Incarnation. Jesus has only God as Father. "He was never estranged from the Father because of the human nature which he assumed. . . He is naturally Son of the Father as to his divinity and naturally son of his mother as to his humanity, but properly Son of the Father in both natures."

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

many of them say that Mary is the "earthly mother of Jesus"

Please document that all Protestants deny that Mary was the mother of Jesus, and the rationale for THAT documenting that therefore they specially HATE Mary (the sole issue of this thread - that HATE).





.

 

[Metal Minister]

I could not even document that all Protestants believe in the Trinity
you have the Oneness Pentecostals and a few other sects that deny the Trinity

I would say (and pretty much every orthodox Christian denomination would as well) that those who deny the Trinity, aren't Christian. That would be like calling Mormons Christian.

no, I can not document that ALL Protestants refer to Mary as this, in fact, the various Lutheran denominations tend be more respectful to the Blessed Mother
Protestants are not united in any belief, so I can not find documentation on this

Well THAT'S an awfully broad statement. Considering any orthodox Protestant denomination would agree with each other on all of the basic tenets, I'd say your assertion isn't correct. Do they all agree with 100% of everything? Of course not, but then again neither does the RCC. I posted before a link to the USCCB, which plainly crates that the woman of Revelation 12 is not Mary, yet I've continuously seen it affirmed that the RCC teaches that it is. We're all human Rham, so sometimes we disagree. As to the rest of your statement, thank you for proving the op fallacious!

 

[Metal Minister]

do you call your mother "my earthly mother"?

it is an unneeded qualifier meant to demean

No, it's to qualify that we don't believe that God had a mother in the sense of another deity. Did Mary not give birth to Jesus here on earth? Was not the God the Son, the deity of the hypostatic union, not present since eternity past? Therefore she is His earthly mother. To say otherwise is to ascribe some aspect of deity to her, and while she is blessed and I love her for bearing Jesus, I will not ascribe any aspect of God to her. She is a creature as we all are.

 

[Rhamiel]

No, it's to qualify that we don't believe that God had a mother in the sense of another deity. Did Mary not give birth to Jesus here on earth? Was not the God the Son, the deity of the hypostatic union, not present since eternity past? Therefore she is His earthly mother. To say otherwise is to ascribe some aspect of deity to her, and while she is blessed and I love her for bearing Jesus, I will not ascribe any aspect of God to her. She is a creature as we all are.

Mary is a creature, no one is disagreeing with you, so there is no need to make the distinction

so do you call your mother "your earthly mother"?

does Jesus have a Divine Mother as well? is that why we have to distinguish Mary as the earthly Mother?

since Jesus only has one mother, we can just say "the mother of Jesus"
or we can say "the mother of God" because Jesus is God

 

[Metal Minister]

Mary is a creature, no one is disagreeing with you, so there is no need to make the distinction

so do you call your mother "your earthly mother"?

does Jesus have a Divine Mother as well? is that why we have to distinguish Mary as the earthly Mother?

since Jesus only has one mother, we can just say "the mother of Jesus"
or we can say "the mother of God" because Jesus is God

No, we say the mother of Jesus. Jesus is the God man. He is God, but she did not give birth to God. The Father and Holy Spirit were not born, correct? Only God the Son, who in the hypostatic union, took on a human nature. That still leaves 2/3 of the Trinity. lol.

 

[concretecamper]

No, we say the mother of Jesus. Jesus is the God man. He is God, but she did not give birth to God. The Father and Holy Spirit were not born, correct? Only God the Son, who in the hypostatic union, took on a human nature. That still leaves 2/3 of the Trinity. lol.

I wonder if CaliforniaJosiah would agree 100 percent with this statement.

 

[Metal Minister]

I wonder if CaliforniaJosiah would agree 100 percent with this statement.

Why?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

As long as we're talking about Mary being the mother of Jesus, I have a question I'd like others to ponder and share their opinion.

Of course, in biblical times, people didn't know about sperm cells and egg cells as a part of procreation. So we don't have a definitive Bible statement about those details in Christ's birth.

Did Jesus come into Mary's womb as a completely new egg in fertilized condition, or was one of Mary's eggs used as the starting point for the incarnation of Jesus?

I'd love to hear folks share their thoughts on that.

 

[topcare]

I don't hate the bible. I hate what sola scripturists have done to it.

Amen

 

[stray bullet]

As long as we're talking about Mary being the mother of Jesus, I have a question I'd like others to ponder and share their opinion.

Of course, in biblical times, people didn't know about sperm cells and egg cells as a part of procreation. So we don't have a definitive Bible statement about those details in Christ's birth.

Did Jesus come into Mary's womb as a completely new egg in fertilized condition, or was one of Mary's eggs used as the starting point for the incarnation of Jesus?

I'd love to hear folks share their thoughts on that.

They had their own concepts about pregnancy. Women provided the material and the man provided the nature (cause). To make a very complicated issue short, men provided the blue print, women provided the materials.

Obviously Mary provided the egg. If she didn't Jesus just popped into her ... and this is exactly the pseudo-Gnosticism I am talking about!

 

[stray bullet]

Now that can go both ways.

No, we do not go by private interpretation. We look at the whole as it has been taught since the beginning.

 

[bbbbbbb]

No, we do not go by private interpretation. We look at the whole as it has been taught since the beginning.

"Since the beginning" by who? I assume that the beginning is, for most Christians, the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was poured out on the 120 brethren (and sisters) in the upper room. If so, then the authoritative documentation would be that penned by those who were there, would it not?