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Why do you think the sabbath is always such a 'hot topic'?

LittleLambofJesus

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It is sort of an old debate( I think).Some say that when Paul was writing 7,he was talking about his experience under the law,before saved.Others say he experienced 7,after he was saved.The workings of the law,verse 7:8,etc.
Sorry, I still am not understanding you.
However, that does bring to mind this event in Acts 19 :D

Acts 19:14 and there were certain--seven sons of Sceva, a Jew, a chief priest--who are doing this thing;
15 Answering yet the Spirit, the wicked/ponhron <4190> said to them "Jesus I am knowing and the Paul I am acquainted, ye yet who are?"
16 and leaping upon them, the man in whom was the spirit, the wicked/ponhron <4190>, according-mastering them is strong against them, so that naked and having wounded, to be escaping out of the house, that.
 
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Frogster

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Sorry, I still am not understanding you.
However, that does bring to mind this event in Acts 19 :D

Acts 19:14 and there were certain--seven sons of Sceva, a Jew, a chief priest--who are doing this thing;
15 Answering yet the Spirit, the wicked/ponhron <4190> said to them "Jesus I am knowing and the Paul I am acquainted, ye yet who are?"
16 and leaping upon them, the man in whom was the spirit, the wicked/ponhron <4190>, according-mastering them is strong against them, so that naked and having wounded, to be escaping out of the house, that.
Wow! I was just reading Heb 2;14..awesome indeed.I have also been studying Acts.

Hebrews 10:18 says alot.No more sacrifice is needed,unlike the repetitive ones that never took away sins!

What is really awesome is the preceeding verse,he will not remember our sins anymore.It is hard to perceive that,but it is true.
 
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CaliforniaJosiah

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Why do you think the sabaoth is always such a "hot topic"


... because there's a "Seventh Day" person in our midst. Otherwise, it's not a topic at all.

We never get any response to what is the Sabbaoth. And we never get any explaination for why we are to publicly worship on Saturday (the public worship thing seems to always be the point).

It all seems to be much ado over a misunderstanding. By 1&#37; of Christians. And then only for the past 200 years or so. And no one seems to be able to make heads or tails out of all the screaming - nothing about Sabboath, no NT verses about "Thou Shalt Worship on Saturday - and You are Apostate if you Worship on Any Other Day." We keep looking for such a verse - and it just never appears.

After awhile, when the whole Sabboath thing is ignored and you realize that verse is never going to be presented, well - I think it's realized this is a "bug in the ear" of 1% of Christians for like 1% of Christian history. We just have MUCH, MUCH, MUCH bigger issues to talk about.

But, as sure as the sun arises tomorrow, some Seventh Day person will start a thread about it.....




.
 
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RND

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... because there's a "Seventh Day" person in our midst. Otherwise, it's not a topic at all.
Do you really think that's the reason?
We never get any response to what is the Sabbaoth. And we never get any explaination for why we are to publicly worship on Saturday (the public worship thing seems to always be the point).
Because the word of God calls the SDS a "holy convocation" which means a "called out assembly."

Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day [is] the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work [therein]: it [is] the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

Iterresting isn't it that ekklesia (the church) means the same thing? A "called out" assembly. Must be another one of those "co-winky-dinks."

miqra' = convocation, convoking, reading, a calling together

ekklesia = a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly

It all seems to be much ado over a misunderstanding. By 1&#37; of Christians. And then only for the past 200 years or so. And no one seems to be able to make heads or tails out of all the screaming - nothing about Sabboath, no NT verses about "Thou Shalt Worship on Saturday - and You are Apostate if you Worship on Any Other Day." We keep looking for such a verse - and it just never appears.
I never knew being a Christian involved a popularity contest. I suppose if all Christians got together a voted to eliminate the 7th commandment that would stand? Not!

There is a reason the path to destruction is wide.....it's to accommodate the 'majority.'

After awhile, when the whole Sabboath thing is ignored and you realize that verse is never going to be presented, well - I think it's realized this is a "bug in the ear" of 1% of Christians for like 1% of Christian history. We just have MUCH, MUCH, MUCH bigger issues to talk about.

But, as sure as the sun arises tomorrow, some Seventh Day person will start a thread about it.....
And some people that have limited understanding on the topic will post on it.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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the reason is control
Well if a gun was put to my head and I was told I had to make a choice of joining the SDAs or the Catholic church, I would choose the gun :p
 
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Zeena

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Ok, so let's be consistent here. Is it ok to commit adultery now?
1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

1 John 4:1-6
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

1 Corinthians 4:4-5 [In Context]
For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

1 Corinthians 6:12-20
All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body. And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Christ did keep the law, and He said that if you love me keep my commandments.
1 John 2:26-28
These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
Just because we will fail at some time doesn't mean we have to fall all the time.
Jude 1:24-25
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Philippians 3:12-14
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Philippians 3:20-21
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The bible says that He is able to keep us from falling. If falling equals sin,
Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

then that means that He is able to keep us from sinning right?
1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 2:1-2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Grace makes provision for us when we sin.
Hebrews 7:22-28
By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.
It doesn't give us occasion to sin.
1 John 2:10
He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

Romans 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

If as Christians we were allowed to live our lives
James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

without keeping the law,
Romans 3:21-28
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
how does that make us any different then those of the world who aren't keeping the law either?
John 15:4
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

2 Peter 1:4-8
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

You have to then believe that the LAW STANDS at a minimum,
Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

in order to make the measures of SIN, correct?
Romans 6:15-23
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
 
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squint

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The law still stands in full force, thing is, we died to it ;)

That may very WELL be the case for 'Gods children.' But as IN ISRAEL, not ALL were Israel, so it is with the presence of INDWELLING SIN and EVIL PRESENT.

IF Grace only adherents believe they do not have indwelling sin or evil present, they are utterly deceived in the entirety.

And if legalists 'think' they are obeying the Law, they simply have to look to that same presence and REALIZE that indwelling SIN and EVIL present WILL NEVER obey the Law, nor was that working ever MEANT to obey the Law. Just the opposite. That presence turns people into LIARS about their own condition IN BOTH CASES.

enjoy!

squint
 
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Zeena

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The law still stands in full force, thing is, we died to it ;)
That may very WELL be the case for 'Gods children.'
We are speaking of God's children here.

This is the 'Christian only' forum.

The rest of your post would swing me too off course to comply, if you chose make another thread and link to it :)
 
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squint

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We are speaking of God's children here.

This is the 'Christian only' forum.

The rest of your post would swing me too off course to comply, if you chose make another thread and link to it :)

My observation dear Zeena is THIS:

ALL PEOPLE regardless of how ignorant they are of the facts have and remain til they day they die, sin indwelling and EVIL present within them.

And believers who falsely portray themselves as TOTALLY AWASH UNDER GRACE and also extend that GRACE to cover or excuse or 'eradicate' indwelling sin and evil present do NOT stand in simple TRUTH.

I might observe that standing IN TRUTH about the facts is exactly the reward of BEING IN TRUTH. Yet I have posted at this forum for a time and have not yet found ONE confessor to the obvious, confessor to the OPENLY OBVIOUS in either Law or Grace camps. Why do you think that is? Do you think that could be part of the working of sin indwelling and evil present?

The twists of dishonesty in theology diverse greatly from the point above. Many 'sell' temporary absolution in these matters to the masses...many 'formulize' absolution in these matters, some deny the facts outright under the flag of grace...etc...ALL to the extent that they just cannot face up to some very simple scriptural facts.

The Law still serves to aggrevate, arouse and reveal the presence of indwelling sins, and MOSTLY it does so 'in' believers because it is IN THEM that the Word is sown and handled.

Grace believers in general believe if they ignore the facts the facts go away. Law believer in general believe that if they 'keep it internal' i.e. at the thought level, that they are JUSTIFIED by doing so.

The facts of the Law in relationship to the very present, very REAL workings of indwelling sin and evil present is that no matter HOW MUCH THEOLOGICAL PAINT, no matter how much denial of the obvious is covered over it, those workings remain in BELIEVERS...and they do so in directly correlating OPPOSITES or OPPOSITIONS to every thing the Word stands for and does.

The grace believer, doing their celebrating piety of freedom, do so in the face of their obvious denials of those workings. And the legalist is even more misled, by portraying themselves as obedient, when in fact those forces/those POWERS of EVIL do remain in the heart and that working is not lawful ONE IOTA, no matter 'how righteous' one might appear in the fleshly external realm.

A believer in their 'right mind' KNOWS that it is insanity to bring their indwelling sin and EVIL present under the LAW because THAT POWER does the opposite of what the LAW commands...and

THE LAW actually does EMPOWER that indwelling sin and EVIL present each and every time ANYONE brings same UNDER THE LAW and indwelling sin and EVIL present PROVES itself there IN FACT and LAWLESS in FACT every single time in every single person WITHOUT FAILURE.

In this regard, the LAW continues to work PERFECTLY and EXACTLY for the measures it intended to show Gods children who are led to stand up to AND under the truth of this disclosure of the Law.

Christians would probably be taken more credibly by others if they could only speak the TRUTH, eh?

enjoy!

squint
 
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Zeena

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My observation dear Zeena is THIS:

ALL PEOPLE regardless of how ignorant they are of the facts have and remain til they day they die, sin indwelling and EVIL present within them.

And believers who falsely portray themselves as TOTALLY AWASH UNDER GRACE and also extend that GRACE to cover or excuse or 'eradicate' indwelling sin and evil present do NOT stand in simple TRUTH.

I might observe that standing IN TRUTH about the facts is exactly the reward of BEING IN TRUTH. Yet I have posted at this forum for a time and have not yet found ONE confessor to the obvious, confessor to the OPENLY OBVIOUS in either Law or Grace camps. Why do you think that is? Do you think that could be part of the working of sin indwelling and evil present?

The twists of dishonesty in theology diverse greatly from the point above. Many 'sell' temporary absolution in these matters to the masses...many 'formulize' absolution in these matters, some deny the facts outright under the flag of grace...etc...ALL to the extent that they just cannot face up to some very simple scriptural facts.

The Law still serves to aggrevate, arouse and reveal the presence of indwelling sins, and MOSTLY it does so 'in' believers because it is IN THEM that the Word is sown and handled.

Grace believers in general believe if they ignore the facts the facts go away. Law believer in general believe that if they 'keep it internal' i.e. at the thought level, that they are JUSTIFIED by doing so.

The facts of the Law in relationship to the very present, very REAL workings of indwelling sin and evil present is that no matter HOW MUCH THEOLOGICAL PAINT, no matter how much denial of the obvious is covered over it, those workings remain in BELIEVERS...and they do so in directly correlating OPPOSITES or OPPOSITIONS to every thing the Word stands for and does.

The grace believer, doing their celebrating piety of freedom, do so in the face of their obvious denials of those workings. And the legalist is even more misled, by portraying themselves as obedient, when in fact those forces/those POWERS of EVIL do remain in the heart and that working is not lawful ONE IOTA, no matter 'how righteous' one might appear in the fleshly external realm.

A believer in their 'right mind' KNOWS that it is insanity to bring their indwelling sin and EVIL present under the LAW because THAT POWER does the opposite of what the LAW commands...and

THE LAW actually does EMPOWER that indwelling sin and EVIL present each and every time ANYONE brings same UNDER THE LAW and indwelling sin and EVIL present PROVES itself there IN FACT and LAWLESS in FACT every single time in every single person WITHOUT FAILURE.

In this regard, the LAW continues to work PERFECTLY and EXACTLY for the measures it intended to show Gods children who are led to stand up to AND under the truth of this disclosure of the Law.

Christians would probably be taken more credibly by others if they could only speak the TRUTH, eh?

enjoy!

squint
Mabey the mods will see fit to split this post from the thread, as it is more than way off topic-lol

Mabey even just copy and paste it into a new thread, i d/c-lol
 
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squint

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Mabey the mods will see fit to split this post from the thread, as it is more than way off topic-lol

Mabey even just copy and paste it into a new thread, i d/c-lol

Your declaration of being off topic in relation to the LAW/SABBATH and the resistance of SIN to the measures of law IS not even remotely accurate SPIN. Sorry.
 
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Zeena

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Your declaration of being off topic in relation to the LAW/SABBATH and the resistance of SIN to the measures of law IS not even remotely accurate SPIN. Sorry.
Wouldn't you agree that a subject [the motions of sin, if you would?] of such hefty matter is worthy of it's own thread?

I believe so, and so my decision is made.
Is it really so difficult for you to do so?
 
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squint

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Wouldn't you agree that a subject [the motions of sin, if you would?] of such hefty matter is worthy of it's own thread?

I believe so, and so my decision is made.

Your desire to deflect the conversation is duly noted.
 
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